Cafe owner admits to discriminating against British workers Watch

fallen_acorns
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#41
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(Original post by Jebedee)
It's more than that I just think that. That's exactly what you said.
I wanted to be sure because I am not that familiar with Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez.. I wasn't sure which part of her ideas/person you were refing to.

Anyway, to the point - yes sometimes its bennificial to ignore facts in favour of peoples emotions, if it leads to a bigger and more bennifical goal for society.

the way I view it:

lets say you live in a hypothetical nation of 40% x people, and 60% y people... lets say its a fact that x people are on average 25% less productive/smart/capable then y people.

Accepting the fact is fine... then what do you do with it? The most efficient model of organising that society is going to result in an effectively two-tiered society, with an upper strata predominatly made up of Y people, and a lower made up of X people. It will be highly efficienty and productive, but also unstable. The likelyhood is that X people will rebel and rise up at somepoint, either resulting in their forced subjication or a split of the nation.

A better option for me, is acting like the difference doesn't exist. You know it does, but by acting like it doesn't. Firstly, you don't hinder the exceptions from group X, who are above average for their group, and secondly, your sacrifice of a degree of efficiency gains you an improved level of harmony/social cohesion, which in the long-run leads to a more prosperous and stable society.

The difference betweenme and Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez, would be that she would deny the fact exists.. whereas I ackowledge and agree that the fact exists and is correct, whilst at the same time realising that its best for society as a whole to ignore it.

With the case in this thread - the evidence is clear to see. As this cafe owners business imploads around him... yes he is right, british workers are not as efficient on average as migrant workers... yes he would have been better off ignoring this fact, and still approaching the situation as if they were equal.
Last edited by fallen_acorns; 1 week ago
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Wōden
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(Original post by TimmonaPortella)
The thing is, people who cross the continent to make a bit of cash to send home to their families probably do have a better work ethic than the average unskilled Brit.
I don't think it actually has anything to do with work ethic, it has everything to do with wages and the cost of living. If there was a wealthier nation that offered double the UK minimum wage to pick fruit during the summer, I'd go and do it in a heartbeat, and so would thousands of others. But alas no such opportunity exists for us, and fruit picking within Britain is not even worth doing if you want to have even the most basic standard of living. If British people refuse to do certain jobs, it's usually because the pay is simply too low to live on, not because they have a poor work ethic
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TimmonaPortella
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(Original post by Wōden)
I don't think it actually has anything to do with work ethic, it has everything to do with wages and the cost of living. If there was a wealthier nation that offered double the UK minimum wage to pick fruit during the summer, I'd go and do it in a heartbeat, and so would thousands of others. But alas no such opportunity exists for us, and fruit picking within Britain is not even worth doing if you want to have even the most basic standard of living. If British people refuse to do certain jobs, it's usually because the pay is simply too low to live on, not because they have a poor work ethic
British people aren't refusing to do these jobs. They're applying, and the cafe owners are preferring to hire Eastern Europeans instead.
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Andrew97
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The main point of this thread was that it’s grossly unfair to lump together a part of the population due to a few people.

Had the cafe owner replaced the word British with Indian, French etc then their would be far more outrage.
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StriderHort
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Seems a really daft thing to try and draw generalisations over, peoples work ethic will vary as much as their circumstances...

IME people develop a work ethic when they REALLY need to, the welfare system in the UK used to cusion people from this reality a fair bit, but less and less so every year (essentially now claiming any benefits also requires a work eithic)
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Jebedee
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(Original post by fallen_acorns)
I wanted to be sure because I am not that familiar with Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez.. I wasn't sure which part of her ideas/person you were refing to.

Anyway, to the point - yes sometimes its bennificial to ignore facts in favour of peoples emotions, if it leads to a bigger and more bennifical goal for society.

the way I view it:

lets say you live in a hypothetical nation of 40% x people, and 60% y people... lets say its a fact that x people are on average 25% less productive/smart/capable then y people.

Accepting the fact is fine... then what do you do with it? The most efficient model of organising that society is going to result in an effectively two-tiered society, with an upper strata predominatly made up of Y people, and a lower made up of X people. It will be highly efficienty and productive, but also unstable. The likelyhood is that X people will rebel and rise up at somepoint, either resulting in their forced subjication or a split of the nation.

A better option for me, is acting like the difference doesn't exist. You know it does, but by acting like it doesn't. Firstly, you don't hinder the exceptions from group X, who are above average for their group, and secondly, your sacrifice of a degree of efficiency gains you an improved level of harmony/social cohesion, which in the long-run leads to a more prosperous and stable society.

The difference betweenme and Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez, would be that she would deny the fact exists.. whereas I ackowledge and agree that the fact exists and is correct, whilst at the same time realising that its best for society as a whole to ignore it.

With the case in this thread - the evidence is clear to see. As this cafe owners business imploads around him... yes he is right, british workers are not as efficient on average as migrant workers... yes he would have been better off ignoring this fact, and still approaching the situation as if they were equal.
You're not a small business owner I take it. While multinationals can make a song and dance about hitting their annual gender and race quotas. Being multinationals, they can take the hit and still hit their bottom line. But for most small businesses they can't be taking these kinds of risks.

Ignoring facts might feel good but it has consequences which you have every right to inflict on yourself, just not on others.
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fallen_acorns
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(Original post by Jebedee)
You're not a small business owner I take it. While multinationals can make a song and dance about hitting their annual gender and race quotas. Being multinationals, they can take the hit and still hit their bottom line. But for most small businesses they can't be taking these kinds of risks.

Ignoring facts might feel good but it has consequences which you have every right to inflict on yourself, just not on others.
1. I am actually. Me and my wife own and run two.

2. You didn't address anything I said, just repeated your past point and added in a new bit about quotas which is irrelevant to my post.

3. Appealing to it being bennificual for small business owners falls short when it's exactly the reason why this small business owner will now see his business fail.

4. I didn't call for quotas anywhere, just ignoring group statistics when making policy/decisions in favour of social harmony. Ignoring statistical bias isn't the same politically as instigating a quota. split them into 3 approaches:

the cafe ownerr: I will only hire x people because on average they are better employees.

Me: yes x people are on average better, but give everyone an equal chance to be hired anyway

Quotas: you must hire an equal or proportional number of x and y people.

See the difference?
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StriderHort
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#48
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(Original post by Bazyli)
Eastern Europeans turn up on time and are far more efficient, so I don’t blame them. 🤥☹️😙😙🤫
You'll get different sterotypes when you ask different people

Around my old area many observers would paint many East Europeans as conspicuously unemployed and a general disgrace to community in terms of behaviour, standards and hygiene. They would be accurate for some reasons, and inaccurate for others, you'd need to step a good bit back to see the real causes.
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Bazyli
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(Original post by Andrew97)
The main point of this thread was that it’s grossly unfair to lump together a part of the population due to a few people.

Had the cafe owner replaced the word British with Indian, French etc then their would be far more outrage.
There’s no outrage because the silent majority know it’s true. Around half of the NHS workforce is comprised of immigrants because there IS a shortage of skilled workers here. I wonder who the old bafoons that voted for Brexit think will be nursing them in their care homes, because it sure won’t be British people lining up for those jobs...
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Andrew97
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(Original post by Bazyli)
There’s no outrage because the silent majority know it’s true. Around half of the NHS workforce is comprised of immigrants because there IS a shortage of skilled workers here. I wonder who the old bafoons that voted for Brexit think will be nursing them in their care homes, because it sure won’t be British people lining up for those jobs...
No they don't

The only reason who are more likely to find a lazy British worker is because there are more British workers. Half? Do you have any proof of that.
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Bazyli
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(Original post by Andrew97)
No they don't

The only reason who are more likely to find a lazy British worker is because there are more British workers. Half? Do you have any proof of that.
200,000 out of 1.4 million staff don’t have British nationality, and another 350,000 are of an immigrant background but have got British nationality since moving here. 37% of all doctors are immigrants and got their medical qualifications from another country
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Andrew97
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(Original post by Bazyli)
200,000 out of 1.4 million staff don’t have British nationality, and another 350,000 are of an immigrant background but have got British nationality since moving here. 37% of all doctors are immigrants and got their medical qualifications from another country
Thats not half is it?
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Bazyli
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(Original post by Andrew97)
Thats not half is it?
Combined, around half are immigrants or have an immigrant background
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Andrew97
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(Original post by Bazyli)
Combined, around half are immigrants or have an immigrant background
No they don't

https://researchbriefings.parliament...mmary/CBP-7783
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Bazyli
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Still a disproportionate amount
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GGekkoM&A
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The bigger problem is wages. It’s not worth the effort for Brits but it is for immigrants since the wage is worth a lot more in their home currency and they can send it back to their relatives. Lots of Turks do the same thing, they take low paid jobs here and still make way more than they would in Turkey. So it is not a matter of laziness, although people in western countries can sometimes be lazy because of our generous welfare policies which developing nations don’t really have, forcing people there to work harder because if they don’t, they’ll starve to death.
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Jebedee
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(Original post by fallen_acorns)
1. I am actually. Me and my wife own and run two.

2. You didn't address anything I said, just repeated your past point and added in a new bit about quotas which is irrelevant to my post.

3. Appealing to it being bennificual for small business owners falls short when it's exactly the reason why this small business owner will now see his business fail.

4. I didn't call for quotas anywhere, just ignoring group statistics when making policy/decisions in favour of social harmony. Ignoring statistical bias isn't the same politically as instigating a quota. split them into 3 approaches:

the cafe ownerr: I will only hire x people because on average they are better employees.

Me: yes x people are on average better, but give everyone an equal chance to be hired anyway

Quotas: you must hire an equal or proportional number of x and y people.

See the difference?
I'm not against giving everyone an equal chance. But if he is making any policies based on his own experience then there should be no coersion to do otherwise, especially if the rationale is true.

I do not agree with placating to those who are a offended by the truth and I do not believe society would be better off by doing so.

P. S: I know this shop as its local. It's very popular.
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Andrew97
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(Original post by Bazyli)
Still a disproportionate amount
Not really, it’s roughly in line with the population. Plus nowhere near your original 50% figure.
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Bazyli
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(Original post by Andrew97)
Not really, it’s roughly in line with the population. Plus nowhere near your original 50% figure.
Yeah, if you believe the media I guess British people are a minority. Only Britain could have an empire that enslaved half the globe and complain when people from the commonwealth come to work here as doctors
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Andrew97
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(Original post by Bazyli)
Yeah, if you believe the media I guess British people are a minority. Only Britain could have an empire that enslaved half the globe and complain when people from the commonwealth come to work here as doctors
We didn’t enslave half the globe. That has nothing to do with people alive today.
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