Do you think Russia should go back to being communist? Watch

ap.ferro
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I was watching a Simon Reeve documentary on Russia. It was an eye opener. I've supported Russia, but realised (maybe overrepresented by BBC) how much poverty there are in parts of the country and how similar some things the Russian government are doing (closing hospitals, outsourcing housing projects to private developers) to the Tories in the UK. Every Russian they spoke to said that life was better in Soviet Times. Having researched this further, it is the case and has been especially under Putin. So do you think a 2nd Soviet Union should come into play?
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modifiedgenes
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They have never left communism- the elite hold the power and the wealth and the ordinary people have zip all.

Good luck forming another soviet union- the Poles, Ukrainians, Romanians and the like would probably rather die than live under that nonsense again.
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ap.ferro
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(Original post by modifiedgenes)
They have never left communism- the elite hold the power and the wealth and the ordinary people have zip all.

Good luck forming another soviet union- the Poles, Ukrainians, Romanians and the like would probably rather die than live under that nonsense again.
No that simply isn't true. Not to the extent in Russia today. They never closed hospitals or had the corruption Russia has today.

And sure, Eastern Europe probably would object, but for starters Poland and Romania were never actually part of the USSR they were puppet states. The people of Tajikstan, Uzbekistan and Kryzgstan would love another Soviet Union
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modifiedgenes
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(Original post by ap.ferro)
No that simply isn't true. Not to the extent in Russia today. They never closed hospitals or had the corruption Russia has today.

And sure, Eastern Europe probably would object, but for starters Poland and Romania were never actually part of the USSR they were puppet states. The people of Tajikstan, Uzbekistan and Kryzgstan would love another Soviet Union
Of course they had corruption in the USSR.
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ap.ferro
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(Original post by modifiedgenes)
Of course they had corruption in the USSR.
Not to the extent they have today. The trademarks of communist countries are low corruption and low crime rates. How often do you hear about either crime or corruption in Cuba?
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B1GRooster
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no..... under the USSR poverty was at a much higher rate than it is now. I think modern media and university life glorifies communism, forgetting the widespread and unparalleled horror it has caused to humanity. it is the single most deadly ideology the world has ever seen, killing more people than fascism and imperialism combined. The only person why profits in a communist society is the members and leaders of the single party state
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modifiedgenes
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(Original post by ap.ferro)
Not to the extent they have today. The trademarks of communist countries are low corruption and low crime rates. How often do you hear about either crime or corruption in Cuba?
Ha Ha Ha... believe me, I had former work mates who we born in and lived under communist regimes. The reason they have no crime or corruption is because the government controlled the media and it is never reported.

One of my colleagues was Bulgarian. He explained that under the communist government no one ever heard about a murder in the news. It didn't happen. In the UK a murder makes frontline, often national, news. In Bulgaria, under their communist government, crimes of this kind were simply never mentioned.
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londonmyst
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No.
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B1GRooster
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(Original post by ap.ferro)
Not to the extent they have today. The trademarks of communist countries are low corruption and low crime rates. How often do you hear about either crime or corruption in Cuba?
however they did murder millions of innocents and political opponents, no freedom of speech. and during the later years of communism especially in poorer regions health care didn't even exist, with the poor left to die and not take resources from the state
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ap.ferro
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(Original post by B1GRooster)
no..... under the USSR poverty was at a much higher rate than it is now. I think modern media and university life glorifies communism, forgetting the widespread and unparalleled horror it has caused to humanity. it is the single most deadly ideology the world has ever seen, killing more people than fascism and imperialism combined. The only person why profits in a communist society is the members and leaders of the single party state
That may be true because poverty levels as a whole across the world were higher in the 80s than say now.

And I dispute it is the deadliest. There are indirect causes that are included in the deaths related to communism. If you are arguing that then you may as well argue that all the people killed as a result of capitalist policies mean capitalism is the single biggest killer
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ap.ferro
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(Original post by B1GRooster)
however they did murder millions of innocents and political opponents, no freedom of speech. and during the later years of communism especially in poorer regions health care didn't even exist, with the poor left to die and not take resources from the state
I don't agree with most communist aspects, I think the best model would be on Vietnam or maybe China to an extent in terms of their economic policies. But it did at least give people a purpose.
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I’m pretty sure impartial research will show it was worse under the USSR. It’s just under communism there’s a lack of this thing called free will and democracy, socialism doesn’t add much of it but at least there’s some framework plus technology means even those in the most oppressed areas can speak out.

You forget everything said to the media under the USSR was controlled, and don’t forget how poisonous nostalgia can be to accurate memories.
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B1GRooster
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(Original post by ap.ferro)
I don't agree with most communist aspects, I think the best model would be on Vietnam or maybe China to an extent in terms of their economic policies. But it did at least give people a purpose.
economically china - isn't communist and is failing. the government assign building and construction projects to government owned companies to boost GDP and growth however there is no consumer. there is a vice documentry out there about how there are 3 million empty homes in China as the government tries to boost their failing economy. trust me very soon the Chinese housing market is going to have a massive crash, bigger than the America 2008 one. The government are creating artificial growth which is now failing
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B1GRooster
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(Original post by ap.ferro)
That may be true because poverty levels as a whole across the world were higher in the 80s than say now.

And I dispute it is the deadliest. There are indirect causes that are included in the deaths related to communism. If you are arguing that then you may as well argue that all the people killed as a result of capitalist policies mean capitalism is the single biggest killer
Ummmmmm are you high. Communist policies are responsible for the deaths of 100 million plus people which we can both agree on such a food chain management and forced labour. But the parties themselves, including china which currently has Muslim concentration camps, Vietnam, Cambodia, the former USSR have murdered an estimated 15-30 million people across the 20th century.
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modifiedgenes
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(Original post by B1GRooster)
economically china - isn't communist and is failing. the government assign building and construction projects to government owned companies to boost GDP and growth however there is no consumer. there is a vice documentry out there about how there are 3 million empty homes in China as the government tries to boost their failing economy. trust me very soon the Chinese housing market is going to have a massive crash, bigger than the America 2008 one. The government are creating artificial growth which is now failing
I am glad you mentioned this. It is no accident the wealthy in China are legally forbidden from taking much of their wealth out of the country. In reality China is suffering from a debt mountain, and citizens are trying to put their cash places like the UK where they consider it safe and far from their own government.
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