Can't wait to leave the EU. Watch

ByEeek
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#61
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#61
(Original post by RSnia)
But blue passports!!
Do you really think a government that books ferries through a company that neither has, nor runs boats has the ability to change the colour of our passports?
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the bear
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#62
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#62
show your support for Brexit by displaying this poster:

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/8...q_90/file.webp
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ColinDent
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#63
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(Original post by MaryDingleberry)
I'm guessing this just killed the thread hahaha
It is about time the public knew Brexit is about the rich screwing the poor and not just politicians in the know (with the wealthy and media's gun finger on the trigger).
Not really bothered about politicians reasons.
I'm just fundamentally opposed to the UK being part of a federal superstate, which is where the whole EU project is ultimately heading.
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MaryDingleberry
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#64
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Then you don't know what the European Union actually stands for. And if you did your research (instead of reading FB advertisements from botnets and corrupt 'real' news media outlets) you would know it is a voted for democratic organisation.

I just told you the whole reason for Brexit was to suck money from you and your family and millions of other families so big (inconceivably big) business can commit tax fraud. That is fact.
But no, you're right; this horrible dictatorship we live under that sets the highest standards for healthcare, education and protecting your consumer and human rights in the world should be stopped! Even if it means losing £800 million from our economy each week that goes by, its a small, even arbitrary price to pay.

Far be it from me to convince Brexiteers that 2 + 2 = 4.
(Original post by ColinDent)
Not really bothered about politicians reasons.
I'm just fundamentally opposed to the UK being part of a federal superstate, which is where the whole EU project is ultimately heading.
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ColinDent
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#65
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(Original post by MaryDingleberry)
Then you don't know what the European Union actually stands for. And if you did your research (instead of reading FB advertisements from botnets and corrupt 'real' news media outlets) you would know it is a voted for democratic organisation.

I just told you the whole reason for Brexit was to suck money from you and your family and millions of other families so big (inconceivably big) business can commit tax fraud. That is fact.
But no, you're right; this horrible dictatorship we live under that sets the highest standards for healthcare, education and protecting your consumer and human rights in the world should be stopped! Even if it means losing £800 million from our economy each week that goes by, its a small, even arbitrary price to pay.

Far be it from me to convince Brexiteers that 2 + 2 = 4.
Sorry to disappoint you but I don't have a FB account, my disliking of the EU as a political entity dates back to it's inception as such a beast.
The subsequent years of power grabs and ignoring of public opinions by them has furthered my opposition to it, and democratic now that is funny, true there is a parliament and true they do vote on laws to be passed, but who decides what it is they vote on? That is most certainly not democracy in action.
Could you please also explain to me how we can vote out Mr Junker if we are displeased with his leadership.
Last edited by ColinDent; 2 weeks ago
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RSnia
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(Original post by ColinDent)
Sorry to disappoint you but I don't have a FB account, my disliking of the EU as a political entity dates back to it's inception as such a beast.
The subsequent years of power grabs and ignoring of public opinions by them has furthered my opposition to it, and democratic now that is funny, true there is a parliament and true they do vote on laws to be passed, but who decides what it is they vote on? That is most certainly not democracy in action.
The European Parliament works in the same way as national parliaments, is representative democracy undemocratic? By your logic national governments need to be abolished as well because they are representative and not direct.
And actually, are you aware of the ECI (European Citizens' Initiative)? Yes, the public does have a say.
The EU is far, far from a federation, it is not a confederation either, because member states are so different. It is actually a mixture between an intergovernmental and a supranational type and is classified as a hybrid. And that is because countries VOTED for it to be that way through the DEMOCRATIC PROCESSES that are in place which allow the member states to only do what they are comfortable with. It is not a camouflaged dictatorship or a boogeyman.
Last edited by RSnia; 2 weeks ago
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ColinDent
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#67
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(Original post by RSnia)
The European Parliament works in the same way as national parliaments, is representative democracy undemocratic? By your logic national governments need to be abolished as well because they are representative and not direct.
And actually, are you aware of the ECI (European Citizens' Initiative)? Yes, the public does have a say.
The EU is far, far from a federation, it is not a confederation either, because member states are so different. It is actually a mixture between an intergovernmental and a supranational type and is classified as a hybrid. And that is because countries VOTED for it to be that way through the DEMOCRATIC PROCESSES that are in place which allow the member states to only do what they are comfortable with. It is not a camouflaged dictatorship or a boogeyman.
No it does not, here's the words of the great Tony Benn for you.
Sorry if he's a bit right wing because we all know that brexit is a right wing issue.

https://youtu.be/nWnpbEMMsNw
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MaryDingleberry
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#68
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(Original post by ColinDent)
Sorry to disappoint you but I don't have a FB account, my disliking of the EU as a political entity dates back to it's inception as such a beast.
The subsequent years of power grabs and ignoring of public opinions by them has furthered my opposition to it, and democratic now that is funny, true there is a parliament and true they do vote on laws to be passed, but who decides what it is they vote on? That is most certainly not democracy in action.
Could you please also explain to me how we can vote out Mr Junker if we are displeased with his leadership.
Well obviously you haven't received the previous comments about how disgustingly corrupt Brexit has been (viva the 1% tax fraud; screw the poor families) and you've completely dismissed them as if they don't matter? Really? No one else matters not even your own future? So on this new completely different debate to somehow gain a 'moral win' (Make no mistake we are all losers) lets cut this hydra of ignorance off as well.

So as you say, the EU is more or less completely DEMOCRATIC other than we don't get to decide the laws that are democratically voted on. Do we as people really have this completely transparent freedom in are own parliament? When was the last law you voted on in parliament? No we rather ingeniously elect people who study this field. They are known as politicians. This is the same way the EU works.
Well since the EU inception over 4170 laws have been passed to protect economy and consumer rights (do you have the knowledge and time required to make an informed decision on all 4000+ of these in addition to adding your own? Nope. Out of these 4170+ regulations the UK has only opposed approximately 72.

Which if you do the maths is 1.7% oppose, that were deemed not in our economic favour and 98.3% in our economic favour. If this was science (ie the truth) it would be wildly statistically significant in the UK favour. In fact I could whip up a statistical test, but whats the point in listening to reason?

And if Mr Junker is solely in charge of this, as you say, he's bloody economic genius like this world has ever fathomed and given us so many human rights and freedoms for which you give him way too much credit.
Base your theory on facts. Not 'feelings'.
Last edited by MaryDingleberry; 2 weeks ago
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ColinDent
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#69
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(Original post by MaryDingleberry)
Well obviously you haven't received the previous comments about how disgustingly corrupt Brexit has been (viva the 1% tax fraud; screw the poor families) and you've completely dismissed them as if they don't matter? Really? No one else matters not even your own future? So on this new completely different debate to somehow gain a 'moral win' (Make no mistake we are all losers) lets cut this hydra of ignorance off as well.

So as you say, the EU is more or less completely DEMOCRATIC other than we don't get to decide the laws that are democratically voted on. Do we as people really have this completely transparent freedom in are own parliament? When was the last law you voted on in parliament? No we rather ingeniously elect people who study this field. They are known as politicians. This is the same way the EU works.
Well since its inception over 4170 laws have been passed to protect economy and consumer rights (do you have the knowledge and time required to make an informed decision on all 4000+ of these in addition to adding your own? No . Out of these 4170+ regulations the UK has only opposed approximately 72.

Which if you do the maths is 1.7% oppose, that were deemed not in our economic favour and 98.3% in our economic favour. If this was science (ie the truth) it would be wildly statistically significant in the UK favour. In fact I could whip up a statistical test, but whats the point in listening to reason?

And if Mr Junker is solely in charge of this as you say he's bloody economic genius like this world has ever fathomed and given us so many human rights and freedoms for which you give him way too much credit.
Base your theory on facts. Not 'feelings'.
I do, facts that I have seen with my own eyes and actually experienced and not stuff that i read on the internet, that is how I form opinions like it or not.
Much of what you state is opinion and not fact, did you watch the vovid I posted by the way? Are you suggesting that Mr Benn was a liar?
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MaryDingleberry
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#70
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#70
(Original post by RSnia)
The European Parliament works in the same way as national parliaments, is representative democracy undemocratic? By your logic national governments need to be abolished as well because they are representative and not direct.
And actually, are you aware of the ECI (European Citizens' Initiative)? Yes, the public does have a say.
The EU is far, far from a federation, it is not a confederation either, because member states are so different. It is actually a mixture between an intergovernmental and a supranational type and is classified as a hybrid. And that is because countries VOTED for it to be that way through the DEMOCRATIC PROCESSES that are in place which allow the member states to only do what they are comfortable with. It is not a camouflaged dictatorship or a boogeyman.
Quite right. The media always offers a simple solution to a complex problem. The EU isn't perfect, and its I don't agree on everything it does, but Brexit has shown that the deep seated problem is corruption on our doorstep, not who we trade with.
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RSnia
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#71
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(Original post by MaryDingleberry)
Quite right. The media always offers a simple solution to a complex problem. The EU isn't perfect, and its I don't agree on everything it does, but Brexit has shown that the deep seated problem is corruption on our doorstep, not who we trade with.
The media benefits from stirring up controversy, and unfortunately the majority of people nowadays lacks critical thinking. Of course the EU is not perfect, politics always was and always will be about give and take. You lose some you win some. But the grass always looks greener on the other side.
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MaryDingleberry
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#72
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So the validity of all of the facts presented rests on whether i believe Tony Benn is a liar?
You've seen facts based on your own eyes, care to finally share them?

No, this is a relatively old video and we are much more informed about the dealings the EU than we have ever been. The fact that Brexit was pushed as it created a tax loop hole for billionaires at the expense of normal people is more corrupt than anything the EU has and probably will ever do.
In fact the EU were fighting this (on our behalf) providing the 20% flat rate corporation tax. They lost. We lost.


(Original post by ColinDent)
I do, facts that I have seen with my own eyes and actually experienced and not stuff that i read on the internet, that is how I form opinions like it or not.
Much of what you state is opinion and not fact, did you watch the vovid I posted by the way? Are you suggesting that Mr Benn was a liar?
Last edited by MaryDingleberry; 2 weeks ago
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MaryDingleberry
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#73
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The media is also owned by a number of multi-millionaires and billionaires who are benefiting from the Brexit tax break.
(Original post by RSnia)
The media benefits from stirring up controversy, and unfortunately the majority of people nowadays lacks critical thinking. Of course the EU is not perfect, politics always was and always will be about give and take. You lose some you win some. But the grass always looks greener on the other side.
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RSnia
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#74
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#74
(Original post by ColinDent)
I do, facts that I have seen with my own eyes and actually experienced and not stuff that i read on the internet, that is how I form opinions like it or not.
Much of what you state is opinion and not fact, did you watch the vovid I posted by the way? Are you suggesting that Mr Benn was a liar?
You do realise that back in 2016 the public was called to vote on something that was misrepresented right? Brexit has evolved into something entirely different than what people were told back then.If anything, considering that you are so in favour of direct democracy, a second referendum should take place in order to verify that the decision still remains the same. That is as democratic as it gets.
And you can't seriously base your entire worldview on what you have seen or heard? I have never seen the earth's curvature therefore it is flat? Who needs facts.
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ColinDent
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#75
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(Original post by MaryDingleberry)
So the validity of all of the facts presented rests on whether i believe Tony Benn is a liar?

No, this is a relatively old video and we are much more informed about the dealings the EU than we have ever been. The fact that Brexit was pushed as it created a tax loop hole for billionaires at the expense of normal people is more corrupt than anything the EU has and probably will ever do.
In fact the EU were fighting this (on our behalf) providing the 20% flat rate corporation tax. They lost. We lost.
You really do love the EU don't you? Oh well we'll just have to agree to disagree on that front.
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MaryDingleberry
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#76
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If i were to draw the same conclusion as you just have, you'd love:
1) giving billionaires tax breaks that suck money out of the NHS and struggling families
2) Accept there is a place for inherently biased media and corruption in politics
3) Don't approve of democratic process or even politicians
4) Don't approve of the human and consumer rights that protect millions of lives

So making assumptions on a logic fallacy is dangerous and ultimately a weakness in thinking that convinced so many people to do the bidding of others and becoming their own worst enemy.
(Original post by ColinDent)
You really do love the EU don't you? Oh well we'll just have to agree to disagree on that front.
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ColinDent
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#77
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(Original post by MaryDingleberry)
If i were to draw the same conclusion as you just have, you'd love:
1) giving billionaires tax breaks that suck money out of the NHS and struggling families
2) Accept there is a place for inherently biased media and corruption in politics
3) Don't approve of democratic process or even politicians
4) Don't approve of the human and consumer rights that protect millions of lives

So making assumptions on a logic fallacy is dangerous and ultimately a weakness in thinking that convinced so many people to do the bidding of others and becoming their own worst enemy.
Lots of lovely words but with absolutely no meaning. The EU is on a path to becoming a federal superstate, I'm glad we're getting off it.
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MaryDingleberry
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Good luck. We were never rich, but my dad is a tax specialist and i read up on it too. We were aware of this billionaire tax loophole Brexit provided long before the average Joe (it is becoming more well known now) and we've made bank on the inevitability of Brexit economic disaster (by spreading assets out of the UK). I decided to study abroad outside the UK with a degree that has EU/UK/USA recognition as did my sibling. We're all strong Remainers who made the best out of a bad situation.

Many people are confused about why we voted Brexit, I just thought they should know the real motive. Voting remain was never about just us, it was about justice
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Libtardian
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#79
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Brexiteers will either celebrate 29th March with a bottle of booze or a bottle of petrol being thrown at parliament.
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ColinDent
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#80
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(Original post by MaryDingleberry)
Good luck. We were never rich, but my dad is a tax specialist and i read up on it too. We were aware of this billionaire tax loophole Brexit provided long before the average Joe (it is becoming more well known now) and we've made bank on the inevitability of Brexit economic disaster (by spreading assets out of the UK). I decided to study abroad outside the UK with a degree that has EU/UK/USA recognition as did my sibling. We're all strong Remainers who made the best out of a bad situation.

Many people are confused about why we voted Brexit, I just thought they should know the real motive. Voting remain was never about just us, it was about justice
Wonderful hyperbole, please keep it up.
By the way you still haven't explained to me how we can vote Mr Junker out of office.
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