Edtao3000
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#1181
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#1181
(Original post by Brams)
Hi Edtao3000,

Can you expand on the group complaint? I've not heard anything about this.

Thanks
If you have a York email, you can access the Slack channel and then view the complaints channel.

onlinecompsci.slack.com
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Edtao3000
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#1182
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#1182
(Original post by jennii267)
Hey,

I've just enrolled onto the MSc Computer Science with Cyber Security course and will be starting on the 7th Sept. I was wondering if there is a group chat/discord for those that's already enrolled or will be starting this Sept? If there is or if you know of anyone, could you redirect me to them please?

Thank you,
J
The Slack channel is below, but you'll need a York email address.

onlinecompsci.slack.com
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Edtao3000
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#1183
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#1183
(Original post by Becstasy)
I'm starting in September too. Maybe you can start one yourself xD
I would suggest to not buy the textbooks as most of them are freely available online, unless you really want to.
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Edtao3000
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#1184
(Original post by milan90)
I had accepted the offer from WG for the CS with Big Data but when I saw that this course now falls under their School of Management, I'm not so sure about going forward with it...
I think CS should fall under a technical school and this move seems to degrade the program's employment value...
Just be careful you are sure that whatever degree you pursue is going to achieve the objectives you want.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-484...y-mouse-degree
Last edited by Edtao3000; 10 months ago
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jennii267
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#1185
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#1185
(Original post by Edtao3000)
The Slack channel is below, but you'll need a York email address.

onlinecompsci.slack.com
Hi,
I just joined the slack server. Thank you!
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El Macho
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#1186
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#1186
Thanks very much for the useful thread. I especially appreciated the link to the syllabus Algorithms, AI, and Adv Programming.

I currently work as a software engineer, and am considering the program mostly for the credential since my undergraduate studies were not in CS. From what I've read, it sounds like candidates with industry/programming experience are able to do well in the program (and with relatively little effort, in some cases), while it's a much harder task for students who do not have any experience. Does that sound correct?

I'm in the fortunate position of having an employer that will cover the cost of the degree. Having read this thread, my main concerns at this point are:
- If the quality of the modules makes it difficult to pass
- What my options will be for a dissertation advisor with similar interests (I'm interested in NLP)
- The amount of time required for each module since I work and have a family.

Also, is it correct that the three modules related to the dissertation will take 8 months in total?

I can't get on the Slack since I don't have a york email addy, is there a Discord? I saw the previous link in the thread, not sure if it's relevant to me, too.
Last edited by El Macho; 9 months ago
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Edtao3000
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#1187
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#1187
(Original post by El Macho)
Thanks very much for the useful thread. I especially appreciated the link to the syllabus Algorithms, AI, and Adv Programming.

I currently work as a software engineer, and am considering the program mostly for the credential since my undergraduate studies were not in CS. From what I've read, it sounds like candidates with industry/programming experience are able to do well in the program (and with relatively little effort, in some cases), while it's a much harder task for students who do not have any experience. Does that sound correct?

I'm in the fortunate position of having an employer that will cover the cost of the degree. Having read this thread, my main concerns at this point are:
- If the quality of the modules makes it difficult to pass
- What my options will be for a dissertation advisor with similar interests (I'm interested in NLP)
- The amount of time required for each module since I work and have a family.

Also, is it correct that the three modules related to the dissertation will take 8 months in total?

I can't get on the Slack since I don't have a york email addy, is there a Discord? I saw the previous link in the thread, not sure if it's relevant to me, too.
"I currently work as a software engineer, and am considering the program mostly for the credential since my undergraduate studies were not in CS. From what I've read, it sounds like candidates with industry/programming experience are able to do well in the program (and with relatively little effort, in some cases), while it's a much harder task for students who do not have any experience. Does that sound correct?"

The deciding factor comes down to how good you are at writing a critical analysis and evaluation at the academic level, which unfortunately has nothing to do with being able to program or having industry experience.

"I'm in the fortunate position of having an employer that will cover the cost of the degree. Having read this thread, my main concerns at this point are:
- If the quality of the modules makes it difficult to pass
- What my options will be for a dissertation advisor with similar interests (I'm interested in NLP)
- The amount of time required for each module since I work and have a family."

If by quality you mean the answers are explicitly in the content, then no. Apart from the first module ADS, everything else is now coursework assessed, based on writing a critical analysis and evaluation about some aspect of computer science. Unless you know what to write, you will struggle as York does not provide explicit guidance on what it wants from assessments. Therefore you will need to work out what will get you the marks based on the question presented. If you are expecting something like the video lectures from MIT or content like on Udemy, you will be extremely disappointed as the expectation is that students do the reading as the main method of learning in each module, so there is limited or non-existent teaching.

They haven't decided the structure of the dissertation (individual research project or IRP), but as it is less credits than a normal dissertation, it will likely be a report with the same critical analysis and evaluation skills being assessed. Advisors for the IRP have not been designated and the topic you can do has to be related to the title of the degree you are doing, so if you want to keep your options open, stick with the plain CS path.

If you know the subject and good at writing a critical analysis and evaluation, it will require less time than about 21 hours a week, which works out to 3 hours a day. If you don't know the subject well and you have a slow reading comprehension speed, it may take more hours.

"Also, is it correct that the three modules related to the dissertation will take 8 months in total?"


Yes, except for the IRP, they are not done in order.
Last edited by Edtao3000; 9 months ago
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El Macho
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#1188
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#1188
Thanks Edtao3000 I really appreciate your response.

Have you had to write any code to be submitted for assessment or has it purely been academic writing?
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Edtao3000
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#1189
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#1189
(Original post by El Macho)
Thanks Edtao3000 I really appreciate your response.

Have you had to write any code to be submitted for assessment or has it purely been academic writing?
Code for assessment was in ADS and AIML, but it only counts for a small percentage of the overall marks. For ADS it was worth 30% of total marks and less than that in AIML.
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atseira
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#1190
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#1190
(Original post by Edtao3000)
They haven't decided the structure of the dissertation (individual research project or IRP), but as it is less credits than a normal dissertation, it will likely be a report with the same critical analysis and evaluation skills being assessed. Advisors for the IRP have not been designated and the topic you can do has to be related to the title of the degree you are doing, so if you want to keep your options open, stick with the plain CS path.
Info regarding the IRP topic/advisor designation will be the decider for me to register for this program or not. I hope you can update us more regarding the IRP later: how do we choose the topic, can we propose which professor to be our advisor. I really appreciate on the info you have given so far in this forum. I think your view is the most complete and balanced in this thread.
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Edtao3000
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#1191
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#1191
(Original post by Edtao3000)
"I currently work as a software engineer, and am considering the program mostly for the credential since my undergraduate studies were not in CS. From what I've read, it sounds like candidates with industry/programming experience are able to do well in the program (and with relatively little effort, in some cases), while it's a much harder task for students who do not have any experience. Does that sound correct?"

The deciding factor comes down to how good you are at writing a critical analysis and evaluation at the academic level, which unfortunately has nothing to do with being able to program or having industry experience.

"I'm in the fortunate position of having an employer that will cover the cost of the degree. Having read this thread, my main concerns at this point are:
- If the quality of the modules makes it difficult to pass
- What my options will be for a dissertation advisor with similar interests (I'm interested in NLP)
- The amount of time required for each module since I work and have a family."

If by quality you mean the answers are explicitly in the content, then no. Apart from the first module ADS, everything else is now coursework assessed, based on writing a critical analysis and evaluation about some aspect of computer science. Unless you know what to write, you will struggle as York does not provide explicit guidance on what it wants from assessments. Therefore you will need to work out what will get you the marks based on the question presented. If you are expecting something like the video lectures from MIT or content like on Udemy, you will be extremely disappointed as the expectation is that students do the reading as the main method of learning in each module, so there is limited or non-existent teaching.

They haven't decided the structure of the dissertation (individual research project or IRP), but as it is less credits than a normal dissertation, it will likely be a report with the same critical analysis and evaluation skills being assessed. Advisors for the IRP have not been designated and the topic you can do has to be related to the title of the degree you are doing, so if you want to keep your options open, stick with the plain CS path.

If you know the subject and good at writing a critical analysis and evaluation, it will require less time than about 21 hours a week, which works out to 3 hours a day. If you don't know the subject well and you have a slow reading comprehension speed, it may take more hours.

"Also, is it correct that the three modules related to the dissertation will take 8 months in total?"


Yes, except for the IRP, they are not done in order.
Just to correct this, PP and IRP are done sequentially, so PP will be the module stepping off the carousel and IRP follows straight after. I've been advised that you can currently take PP and IRP with one module outstanding, which will still need to be passed to get the full degree, though there could be a long wait until it does come around again.
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El Macho
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#1192
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#1192
I'm curious why there may be such a long delay between modules repeating – are they not always offered in the same order?
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Edtao3000
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#1193
(Original post by El Macho)
I'm curious why there may be such a long delay between modules repeating – are they not always offered in the same order?
They are in the same order, but if you decide to take a break from a module near the end of the course you'll end up having to wait longer before it comes around again. If you take a break from the second module, there is no wait as it is the next module after the last one on the carousel.
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elsap0p
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#1194
(Original post by milan90)
I had accepted the offer from WG for the CS with Big Data but when I saw that this course now falls under their School of Management, I'm not so sure about going forward with it...
I think CS should fall under a technical school and this move seems to degrade the program's employment value...
The degree is still awarded by WGU, but I know what you mean. I am still excited to be starting on Monday.
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Edtao3000
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#1195
(Original post by elsap0p)
The degree is still awarded by WGU, but I know what you mean. I am still excited to be starting on Monday.
At least you have a module for critical analysis and evaluation. Hopefully, it has content on how to do it well.
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Edtao3000
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#1196
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#1196
(Original post by atseira)
Info regarding the IRP topic/advisor designation will be the decider for me to register for this program or not. I hope you can update us more regarding the IRP later: how do we choose the topic, can we propose which professor to be our advisor. I really appreciate on the info you have given so far in this forum. I think your view is the most complete and balanced in this thread.
I've been advised already that students will be designated an advisor for their IRP, so students will not be able to choose them. In regard to the topics for the IRP, it's looking more likely that it will be a structured report based on a chosen theme from a set of themes, therefore the scope is limited and it doesn't look like students will have free-reign over their whole dissertation.
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BertieLeSpud
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#1197
(Original post by Edtao3000)
So harsh! But you know what I'm going ask you next. What are you comparing this to and may I know which university you graduated from?
OK let me answer this and this may explain why I left the course. I already have 2 master degrees. One in Engineering from Warwick and another in IT and Telecommunications Law from Strathclyde. This is in addition to my undergrad degree. I enrolled at York to learn CS with Cyber because it is a growing field and one that interests me. Unfortunately, the quality of the program was dreadful compared to the standard I had encountered at other universities and despite the literature saying that the course was intended for those with degrees in other subjects without prior CS knowledge, it immediately threw you in at the deep end assuming you already knew how to code in java (which the majority on the course didn't). The material was so bad, that even if you wanted to and was willing to learn from scratch (as I did) the material provided by the uni and the instructions attached to the tasks you needed to complete to pass the module were so poor (again because they assumed you had already mastered the rudimental's of Java) that you were behind the curve from day 1 with no chance of ever catching up. It was the worst I have ever seen and their "don't give a hoot" response when approached for guidance was a clear give away as to the lack of support you were going to get should you continue with the course. I am now doing CEH ethical hacking and all the CompTIA cyber courses instead which from a quality perspective are in a different league to the clown outfit that was York Uni. OK I won't get an MSC at the end of it but I will stand my own when it comes to knowledge and understanding of the subject at hand.
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0dz3r
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(Original post by BertieLeSpud)
I am now doing CEH ethical hacking and all the CompTIA cyber courses instead which from a quality perspective are in a different league to the clown outfit that was York Uni. OK I won't get an MSC at the end of it but I will stand my own when it comes to knowledge and understanding of the subject at hand.
If you are interested in penetration testing training, there is also a course by Kali Linux which seems to be good, perhaps one of the best though I have not looked into it too much, and I haven't done it myself:

https://www.kali.org/penetration-tes...th-kali-linux/
https://www.offensive-security.com/pwk-oscp/

These professional certificates also seem to often be considered valuable, though most of them are meant for people who have been working in the field for a few years: https://www.isc2.org/certifications

But I think these differ from what you are supposed to be learning at the York MSc, in that they are purely IT focused, they do not prepare you to be a software developer as far as I know. So, they are probably not a replacement for people who are interested in software development. Regardless, they are obviously much much better in quality than the York MSc in their field, this is quite certain.

There are also many other certificates that could be valuable in the CV, like the Amazon Web Services certificates, and others.
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elideli
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(Original post by BertieLeSpud)
OK let me answer this and this may explain why I left the course. I already have 2 master degrees. One in Engineering from Warwick and another in IT and Telecommunications Law from Strathclyde. This is in addition to my undergrad degree. I enrolled at York to learn CS with Cyber because it is a growing field and one that interests me. Unfortunately, the quality of the program was dreadful compared to the standard I had encountered at other universities and despite the literature saying that the course was intended for those with degrees in other subjects without prior CS knowledge, it immediately threw you in at the deep end assuming you already knew how to code in java (which the majority on the course didn't). The material was so bad, that even if you wanted to and was willing to learn from scratch (as I did) the material provided by the uni and the instructions attached to the tasks you needed to complete to pass the module were so poor (again because they assumed you had already mastered the rudimental's of Java) that you were behind the curve from day 1 with no chance of ever catching up. It was the worst I have ever seen and their "don't give a hoot" response when approached for guidance was a clear give away as to the lack of support you were going to get should you continue with the course. I am now doing CEH ethical hacking and all the CompTIA cyber courses instead which from a quality perspective are in a different league to the clown outfit that was York Uni. OK I won't get an MSC at the end of it but I will stand my own when it comes to knowledge and understanding of the subject at hand.
I think your experience say it all, this course is complete s*** and you will be wasting your time doing it. It's really a pity to see a university like York providing such a poor value to their students, yet you go to their home page and you read all these bull**** statements about how they are world leading and great. This course has one objective and that is to use of university's brand to fool naive students to make a maximum of money. There's 0 propositional value other than a piece of paper. It almost feels like a scam. I hope everyone read all these negative experiences before enrolling. Screw them.
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mb120
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This course is just a waste of time. Do NOT enrol unless:

a) You just want a line on your CV
b) You intend to work abroad where an MSc from a UK University sounds fascinating

and even in those cases, it's still not worthy. It can tire you so much - especially now that all modules have 'critical evaluation' essays - and you will gain nothing tangible out of it.

I personally just lost all hope with the DMTA module aka 'learn everything by yourself'. Not that I had high expectations anymore, but this module is the definition of a waste of time and money.

The course itself is violating almost all of the Programme Specification and some parts of the Guide to Assessment. Anything you read about the course on the York webpage does not correspond to reality. It doesn't teach anything close to 'industry-relevant content' and certainly does not prepare you for any kind of job. The Head of the course, is defending the level of content by saying 'it's 30% tutor input - 70% self-learning'. It is impossible to find time to finish the content, finish the assignment AND do additional 'self learning'. Even if you wanted to invest all your time on learning, anything you learn on the modules is so basic and theoretical that you would be in a better position if you started learning on your own in the first place. Tutors do NOT have time to help you with any queries not directly related to the content and will refuse to help you with any queries on previous modules. So you just have a 'broad' introduction to the topic of the module and do enough of each 'sub-topic' so that you consume all your time reading without learning anything applicable or anything that will help you to learn anything applicable. I could write 100000 words about how much it sucks but just to give people and idea.

To answer a few previous questions:

1) The group complaint was submitted 6 months ago and so far there has been no improvement in any aspect of the course and no final decision (even though typically there is a 5-week 'deadline' to get a decision). There were some changes to the structure of the course and the modules and their only objective is to allow more students to enrol. Although, recently they're trying to do a few things but I suspect these are directly related to the group complaint and the involvement of the legal department.


2) A year and a half since the course was launched, they still have no idea how to deliver the IRP. If you don't know, the course has around 8 tutors so the students to tutor ratio is around 100 to 1 instead of the advertised 25 to 1 - and these tutors are more like part-time tutors for us. Based on my communication with people of the Uni the IRP will be a disaster. They cite the length of the module as a justification for the possible limited scope. But, if you account for the other IRP-related modules (RM:2 months,PP:2 months, IRP:4 months) it seems like the length should not be a problem. But, it appears that the PP module will not be directly related to the IRP. As in, the objective of the module will be to present a project proposal and we will be marked on that but it's not necessary to do the proposed topic for your IRP. Personally, I don't feel like anything I've learned so far can put me in a position to select a meaningful project on my own - let alone work on it on my own. Also, it appears that the course has limited control over the tutors and it's probably up to them how much time they will invest on each student. And here is the issue, they will most likely not be of much help because they will need to simultaneously supervise IRP projects, teach their real classes and whatever else they do offline, reply on canvas to online students and mark assignments while the course has done nothing to fix the student to tutor ratio and it accepts more than 250 students every 2 months. Also, if you follow the Data Analytics path where you MUST have an IRP on Data Analytics it appears that no tutor is suitable to supervise such project. Most likely, most students will be forced to do some kind of braindead report which will be the ultimate waste for this course.
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