Pregnant ISIS bride wishes to return to the UK Watch

LeapingLucy
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#41
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#41
(Original post by Notoriety)
I believe we have a reservation on the citizenship thing. Regarding asylum and all the rest, maybe more difficult.

It serves as a poor example, really. You can go to Syria, live in the Caliphate, and disseminate the message of zealotry and murder. Thereafter, if things get too hot, you can return to London and the NHS will birth your babies. I know there is some mitigation in her age, but I really don't like the message it sends.
I suppose though, she went to join the Islamic State. She didn't go to join Syria - she in fact joined a pseudo-state that was trying to take control of large swathes of Syria's territory.

Now that the state she went to join is practically gone, why should she be Syria's problem? Is it right to leave her for them to deal with when she doesn't have Syrian nationality?
Last edited by LeapingLucy; 1 month ago
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Arcaneballs
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#42
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(Original post by LeapingLucy)
I suppose though, she went to join the Islamic State. She didn't go to join Syria - she in fact joined a pseudo-state that was trying to take control of large swathes of Syria's territory.

Now that the state she went to join is practically gone, why should she be Syria's problem? Is it right to leave her for them to deal with when she doesn't have Syrian nationality?
Lucy, here is a logical "explanation" of why she is a THREAT:

"
She said that seeing her first "severed head" in a bin "didn't faze me at all".
"It was from a captured fighter seized on the battlefield, an enemy of Islam.
"I thought only of what he would have done to a Muslim woman if he had the chance," she said.
"

She is a narrow minded person without any empathy. Imagine what she'd do to "enemies" of Islam in the UK. People gotta take these things seriously
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alevelshelpit
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#43
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(Original post by LeapingLucy)
It’s difficult - she was still a child when she left the UK, and had been groomed online by the adults who radicalised her. In the UK we do judge children more leniently than we judge adults - should that extend to her?

Plus, she’s a British citizen - not a Syrian one - so why should she be their problem?
ur so left wing its a joke. she doesnt regret going to syria she just knows the conditions are bad there.

shes not a child now and she still associates herself with this radical ideology.
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999tigger
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#44
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(Original post by mgi)
it will be blocked. it can be prevented . it would be politicsl dynamite to let her back in especially if she still has the same views on terrorism.
The UK will follow the law, although I expect they can delay her return by fighting any proceedings. If she is an actual UK citizen by birth they may have no choice to take hr back as she would be our problem and no one elses. Hundreds of homegrown ISIS fighters have already returned.

They would have to charge her for any breaches of the law or failing that jeep her under expensive surveillance. Its not as straightforward as you suggest.
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Decahedron
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#45
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Can we still drone strike them?
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LeapingLucy
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#46
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(Original post by Arcaneballs)
Lucy, here is a logical "explanation" of why she is a THREAT:

"
She said that seeing her first "severed head" in a bin "didn't faze me at all".
"It was from a captured fighter seized on the battlefield, an enemy of Islam.
"I thought only of what he would have done to a Muslim woman if he had the chance," she said.
"

She is a narrow minded person without any empathy. Imagine what she'd do to "enemies" of Islam in the UK. People gotta take these things seriously
I'm not denying that she's a threat.

My question is - why is it better for her to be a threat to Syrian people than it is for her to be a threat to British people? Are you implying that Syrian lives are worth less than British lives?

Islamic State killed and tortured huge numbers of Syrians - the captured fighters she has seen being executed were probably Syrians.

She's not a Syrian national - she's a British national. Why should she be Syria's problem?
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Nadia19962
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#47
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She decided to go and join ISIS, so she should stay in Syria. She was old enough to make her own decisions. Coming back to the U.K., she would pose a threat to her community and the country. And like someone said earlier, she would need a new identity if she would want to have a job and getting a new identity wouldn’t do any good as her photo is all over the news, so will people will recognise her. Also, no one would want to employ her because of her criminal record. And if she was let back in the U.K., it would mean she would have to live if the tax payers money. I don’t want to pay for her rent and help give her benefits when she joined a group who ruined the world and millions of people. So yeah, she can stay in Syria and rot there
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Emma:-)
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#48
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(Original post by meenu89)
We have enough idiots in the country, she chose to go so she can live with her decision.
I agree.
Those who leave the country to go and join things like ISIS should not be allowed back.
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ANM775
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#49
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I'm watching the news right now and someone is arguing that she was groomed by ISIS as a 15 year old child and it is comparable to the grooming that happened in rochdale

he wants her to come back and views her as a victim
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Fullofsurprises
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#50
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(Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
Of course she regrets going there, otherwise she wouldn’t be desperate to return to peaceful, stable Britain. I suspect she’s just saying she has no remorse to save face and avoid admitting that going there was one of the most idiotic decisions she’s ever made and one that will probably haunt her and severely damage her employment opportunities for life.
I can't help wondering what her situation is in Syria - is she still under the thumb of ISIS there? If so, she could hardly say she hates them now. But if so, why are they allowing her to leave?

EDIT: I've just read she's in a refugee camp, not still with IS, but I suppose she might still be afraid of retribution by them.
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LeapingLucy
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#51
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(Original post by alevelshelpit)
ur so left wing its a joke. she doesnt regret going to syria she just knows the conditions are bad there.

shes not a child now and she still associates herself with this radical ideology.
A) But the state she went to join - with "this radical ideology" - no longer exists. She is now left in Syria, a country that the Islamic State she joined was seeking to destroy. I'm not denying that she's a threat, but my question is: why is it better for her to be a threat to Syrian people than it is for her to be a threat to British people? Are you implying that Syrian lives are worth less than British lives? She's not a Syrian national - she's a British national. Why should she be Syria's problem?

B) She was a child when she was groomed and radicalised online. She sounds like she has been completely brainwashed. In British law we do treat children more leniently, because we recognise that children do not have the same judgement as adults, and whether someone is judged as a child or an adult depends on the age they were when they committed the crime, not the age they are now.
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Arcaneballs
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#52
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#52
(Original post by LeapingLucy)
I'm not denying that she's a threat.

My question is - why is it better for her to be a threat to Syrian people than it is for her to be a threat to British people? Are you implying that Syrian lives are worth less than British lives?

Islamic State killed and tortured huge numbers of Syrians - the captured fighters she has seen being executed were probably Syrians.

She's not a Syrian national - she's a British national. Why should she be Syria's problem?
Lucy, come on, what the...

She just said that seeing severed heads and dead people is ok, but she wants to return to the UK? Are you kidding me?

She made her choice, she wanted to be in a war zone, fighting and hoping to MURDER "enemies of Islam". She is a f***ing extremist and a bloody threat to any civilised country.
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Fullofsurprises
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#53
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(Original post by ANM775)
I'm watching the news right now and someone is arguing that she was groomed by ISIS as a 15 year old child and it is comparable to the grooming that happened in rochdale

he wants her to come back and views her as a victim
ISIS are a death cult. It's more like someone being groomed by an extremist suicide cult like certain fundamentalist Christian groups in the past. There is a valid argument that these kids are victims and if anyone is to blame, it is the education and culture they've been brought up with and their families, for leaving them vulnerable to the clever and powerful Jihadi propaganda machine, and YouTube and Facebook for doing so much to facilitate it.
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LeapingLucy
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#54
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(Original post by Arcaneballs)
Lucy, come on, what the...

She just said that seeing severed heads and dead people is ok, but she wants to return to the UK? Are you kidding me?

She made her choice, she wanted to be in a war zone, fighting and hoping to MURDER "enemies of Islam". She is a f***ing extremist and a bloody threat to any civilised country.
You've completely ignored my point. She went to join *Islamic State*, not *Syria*. Islamic State murdered countless Syrians, mainly for being the wrong type of Muslim.

Islamic State has now been almost completely destroyed, leaving her in territory controlled by Syria.

She's not a Syrian citizen. She has no connections to Syria. She went to join a state that wanted to destroy Syria.

Why should her extremism be inflicted on the Syrian people?
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Fullofsurprises
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'She gave a conflicting account of the so-called caliphate. “There was so much oppression and corruption that I don’t think they deserved victory,” she said. However, she added: “I don’t regret coming here.”'
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...o-return-to-uk

She sounds very confused, to say the least.
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Rakas21
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#56
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(Original post by LeapingLucy)
It’s difficult - she was still a child when she left the UK, and had been groomed online by the adults who radicalised her. In the UK we do judge children more leniently than we judge adults - should that extend to her?

Plus, she’s a British citizen - not a Syrian one - so why should she be their problem?
The age of criminal responsibility in the UK is 10 and as much as one likes to believe that 15 year old girls are being taken advantage of (often the same people who argue for the likes of votes at 16) there is little to no evidence that (whether romanticised or not) she did not know that she would joining an organisation which had declared itself at war with the western world.

What she has done in marrying a terrorist is aid and abet ISIS, a body that as stated views itself at war with our decedent way of life (as they see it).

This woman is an inferior, disgusting parasite on our world and truly sickens me. What she did in leaving the UK (her birthright) to join ISIS should be seen as nothing less than what it is. Treason!

She should be escorted back to the UK, she should have her child removed from her and she should then be charged and sentenced for the crime of treason. One of the few instances where i am sympathetic to the death penalty being given.
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LeapingLucy
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(Original post by Arcaneballs)
"Are you implying that Syrian lives are worth less than British lives? She's not a Syrian national - she's a British national. Why should she be Syria's problem?"

She is a British citizen that chose to fight for another country. She made her choice, they maybe groomed her, but she liked their ideas and because of her statement, it is plain clear that she does not regret anything and would still KILL "enemies of Islam".
She didn't choose to fight for another country - Islamic State was never recognised internationally as a country. It was a pseudo-state at most.

And now it has gone. She can't stay there because it doesn't exist any more.
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Little Popcorns
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Her speaking on he news this morning. I get why she’s a victim but at the moment her arrogance and lack of remorse for anything doesn’t make me feel like she can be ‘saved’ by us if she comes here. Seems like she’d need to be detained here all the time if she were to come back. I would not want her walking free around the streets.
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Rakas21
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#59
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
I can't help wondering what her situation is in Syria - is she still under the thumb of ISIS there? If so, she could hardly say she hates them now. But if so, why are they allowing her to leave?

EDIT: I've just read she's in a refugee camp, not still with IS, but I suppose she might still be afraid of retribution by them.
Does it matter?

One right does not make up for years of wrongdoing and regret does not absolve one of criminal responsibility.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Little Popcorns)
Her speaking on he news this morning. I get why she’s a victim but at the moment her arrogance and lack of remorse for anything doesn’t make me feel like she can be ‘saved’ by us if she comes here. Seems like she’d need to be detained here all the time if she were to come back. I would not want her walking free around the streets.
Victims of cults usually are taken to counsellors (they sometimes call them 'deprogrammers') expert in the cult and its workings - often ex-cultees themselves - who can help the person recover from the cult. There are ex-Jihadis actively touring the UK and other countries working against the cult.

People are reacting to this story with a desire for punishment, but in fact these are just naive and credulous young Muslims swept up in a major cult operation and pretty much defenseless to resist it.
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