P87 – Import Tariffs after Brexit Petition Watch

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Saracen's Fez
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P87 – Import Tariffs after Brexit Petition, mr T 999
Brexit offers a great opportunity to improve Britain's trading relationships with the world and engage in a freer, fairer trade for the benefit of both British citizens and our trading partners. Consequently, we believe that the government should take a stance whereby the United Kingdom leaves the customs union after brexit to make the most of these opportunities.

We further believe that after leaving the customs union the government should abolish all tariffs on food imports, which average 18% for imports from outside the EU. Such action would lead to cheaper food prices giving everybody more money in their pockets and particularly helping the poorest in society. If this is done over several years along with the phased removal of agricultural subsidies can lead to a far more efficient and competitive farming sector, like in New Zealand while also helping farmers in poorer parts of the world who have better access to our market.

Finally, we believe that tariffs should be cut at half the base WTO levels across the board. This too keeps costs down for British consumers and sends a message to the world that Britain is open for business and pro-free trade while keeping bargaining chips for any future Free Trade Agreements to decrease tariffs on exports.
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999tigger
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(Original post by mr T 999)
Import Tariffs after Brexit Petition, RT.Hon mr T 999Brexit offers a great opportunity to improve Britain's trading relationships with the world and engage in a freer, fairer trade for the benefit of both British citizens and our trading partners. Consequently, we believe that the government should take a stance whereby the United Kingdom leaves the customs union after brexit to make the most of these opportunities.

We further believe that after leaving the customs union the government should abolish all tariffs on food imports, which average 18% for imports from outside the EU. Such action would lead to cheaper food prices giving everybody more money in their pockets and particularly helping the poorest in society. If this is done over several years along with the phased removal of agricultural subsidies can lead to a far more efficient and competitive farming sector, like in New Zealand while also helping farmers in poorer parts of the world who have better access to our market.

Finally, we believe that tariffs should be cut at half the base WTO levels across the board. This too keeps costs down for British consumers and sends a message to the world that Britain is open for business and pro-free trade while keeping bargaining chips for any future Free Trade Agreements to decrease tariffs on exports.
What research is there on the revenue situation?
What research is there on the knock on effects on UK industry?
What will you do about dumping and state subsidies?
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Connor27
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I firmly support this petition and it would’ve been submitted as a party item if it were possible for parties to submit petitions, the only reason I advised Mr T to submit this was to force the Tory government to act upon passage, because of petitions being constitutionally stronger than motions.
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ns_2
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I strongly believe that, in order to 'make the most of Brexit', we do indeed need to leave the EU customs union and thus be able to forge our own trade deals and establish our own tariffs etc.

Whilst I agree with the sentiment (I do not believe protectionism helps in a globalised world), I am concerned about the potential impact on domestic industries and the arising structural immobility, as well as the exact implementation specifically unilateral 'action across the board' [though that would be a matter for government]. I would much prefer a move towards basic bilateral free trade agreements, though I acknowledge that this is not always possible.

That being said, international competition does enhance comparative advantage.
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Jammy Duel
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(Original post by ns_2)
I strongly believe that, in order to 'make the most of Brexit', we do indeed need to leave the EU customs union and thus be able to forge our own trade deals and establish our own tariffs etc.

Whilst I agree with the sentiment (I do not believe protectionism helps in a globalised world), I am concerned about the potential impact on domestic industries and the arising structural immobility, as well as the exact implementation specifically unilateral 'action across the board' [though that would be a matter for government]. I would much prefer a move towards basic bilateral free trade agreements, though I acknowledge that this is not always possible.

That being said, international competition does enhance comparative advantage.
Domestic industries such as? For the most part our domestic industries are not ones that are really protected by current tariffs given they are either high skill high cost, or ones where "made/grown in Britain" provides a great deal of protection. It's also not worth noting that it isn't really the competition that enhances the comparative advantage, rather the removal of barriers that allows it to be capitalised on.

As the original author (can't be bothered to check if T has actually changed anything, obviously I support it.
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I orignally supported this last time, I see no reason to change my mind.
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ns_2
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(Original post by Jammy Duel)
Domestic industries such as? For the most part our domestic industries are not ones that are really protected by current tariffs given they are either high skill high cost, or ones where "made/grown in Britain" provides a great deal of protection. It's also not worth noting that it isn't really the competition that enhances the comparative advantage, rather the removal of barriers that allows it to be capitalised on.

As the original author (can't be bothered to check if T has actually changed anything, obviously I support it.
Many the likes of farming etc. which are supported by substantial subsidies (which show their innate lack of viability); further 'undermining' by the international market may decimate said industry, hence we must do something to help former farmers find work in other more competitive industries.

Regardless, I too support the sentiment.
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Jammy Duel
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(Original post by ns_2)
Many the likes of farming etc. which are supported by substantial subsidies (which show their innate lack of viability); further 'undermining' by the international market may decimate said industry, hence we must do something to help former farmers find work in other more competitive industries.

Regardless, I too support the sentiment.
The fact of the matter with farming is that it's a lot smaller than most think, sure it takes up a lot of space but but that's it. Subsidies would need considering anyway due to the end of CAP but places like new Zealand show that agriculture works like any other market: those in it will become more competitive, and as stated originally patriotism/nationalism helps a lot, just look at the supermarkets when domestically grown produce is in season: sells like hotcakes despite a higher price than the imported produce.

Really on agriculture the concern should be on food security, but we are well off that regardless
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Saunders16
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Okay, so this can be split into three sections. You Libers really like sneaking things through, huh?

1. Immediately abolish food tariffs.

Does this not contradict the argument later used for not abolishing other tariffs? In negotiating free trade deals, how important do the authors believe it would it be to have room to move on food tariffs?

2. Phase out agricultural subsidies.

This concerns me a lot because of the end of CAP. The last thing people voted for was to harm their own industries. Although I can see the case for a gradual reduction in agricultural subisdies over time, there is firstly no time period specified and secondly this would mean complete abolition eventually. Surely this would risk being a counter-productive approach for the economy.

3. Put all other tariffs at half the base WTO levels.

I vaguely remember a bill submitted by Jacob that legislated for different tariff levels for different goods, which makes me worry that setting everything at this one level is a lazy way of going about reform.



Overall, although I am sympathetic to all of the ideas presented, I also have concerns about how all of them are executed. As it stands I won't be supporting this petition.
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Jammy Duel
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(Original post by Saunders16)
Okay, so this can be split into three sections. You Libers really like sneaking things through, huh?

1. Immediately abolish food tariffs.

Does this not contradict the argument later used for not abolishing other tariffs? In negotiating free trade deals, how important do the authors believe it would it be to have room to move on food tariffs?

2. Phase out agricultural subsidies.

This concerns me a lot because of the end of CAP. The last thing people voted for was to harm their own industries. Although I can see the case for a gradual reduction in agricultural subisdies over time, there is firstly no time period specified and secondly this would mean complete abolition eventually. Surely this would risk being a counter-productive approach for the economy.

3. Put all other tariffs at half the base WTO levels.

I vaguely remember a bill submitted by Jacob that legislated for different tariff levels for different goods, which makes me worry that setting everything at this one level is a lazy way of going about reform.



Overall, although I am sympathetic to all of the ideas presented, I also have concerns about how all of them are executed. As it stands I won't be supporting this petition.
Abolition on food is because it's one of the areas that has the highest tariffs and also most benefits people, especially the working class, because it's one of the few things you *need*.

For subsidies I'd actually go for a phase out rather than immediate removal, but also as above, it's actually quite a small industry and benefits a lot from jingoistic flag waving, people will generally be willing to pay more for British produce.

As for everything being set at one level for the rest, that wouldn't be the case because pretty much everything has different WTO rates, they'd each be on an individual basis rather than collectively at a single level, saying that most are at a low enough level there isn't much difference between base, half base, and zero
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Baron of Sealand
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You don't unilaterally abolish tariffs without using that as a leverage to ask others to do the same for British-made products.

China manages to have high tariffs for everyone but low tariffs exporting to everyone due to WTO rules. Even Hong Kong only managed to get the tariffs down in mid-December last year when the Trade War has already started.
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You can't slash tariffs without knowing what the other country's doing. Tariffs should be cut on a case by case basis when the situation for tariff reform has been accessed. Leaving the customs union and slashing agricultural tariffs I can get behind. Aye as it's party. Abstain if it wasn't
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ns_2
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(Original post by The Champion.m4a)
You don't unilaterally abolish tariffs without using that as a leverage to ask others to do the same for British-made products.

China manages to have high tariffs for everyone but low tariffs exporting to everyone due to WTO rules. Even Hong Kong only managed to get the tariffs down in mid-December last year when the Trade War has already started.
Issue is we couldn't selectively reduce tariffs for those willing to do the same for us given the concept of 'most favoured nation'.
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Jarred
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Probably a no. I am sympathetic to eliminating tariffs as much as possible but I don't think a blanket approach is at all sensible. As had already been said, each trade deal is going to be different and we need to allow for a more nuanced approach than this.
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It would be delightful if the member proposing action could defend his proposals over the questions raised in the debate. As has happened with earlier petitions from the same person, they've been submitted, not defended, stupidly sent to division and failed. It would serve mr T 999 far better to respond to points raised here.
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Rakas21
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As ever with petitions i shall abstain in division.

I am however (as alluded to previously) personally sympathetic to the abolition of tarrifs in conjunction with measures such as those outlined in the budget (British Investment Bank, Automation fund ect..) which will allow British industry to continue to thrive in such an environment.

With regards to CAP, as the man who has taken us out of it twice before i would be happy to do so a third time.
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Saracen's Fez
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Division! Clear the lobbies!
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