Trans children are being damaged Watch

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#81
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#81
(Original post by InArduisFouette)
yudothis continues to ignore the clinical evidence and basic sciences of this issue in favour of pushing their line of hatred and evidence free bigotry.

Yudothis was the one who suggested that the trans people were in some magical fairyland ... the brutal and frank truth is we have to become expert patients to ensure that the care we get meets even the most basic standards of acceptability.
I think Yudothis is rightly concerned that the trans lobby is instrumental in causing lasting harm to children in pursuit of their social dogma.
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Dandaman1
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#82
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(Original post by Good bloke)
I think Yudothis is rightly concerned that the trans lobby is instrumental in causing lasting harm to children in pursuit of their social dogma.
And to society in general.

Teen suicide rates have been going up in recent years and I wouldn't be surprised if the trans lobby influenced this. Adolescents have a hard enough time figuring themselves out, and now they're being bombarded with all this crap.
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#83
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(Original post by Dandaman1)
And to society in general.

Teen suicide rates have been going up in recent years and I wouldn't be surprised if the trans lobby influenced this. Adolescents have a hard enough time figuring themselves out, and now they're being bombarded with all this crap.
Quite!
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InArduisFouette
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(Original post by Good bloke)
I think Yudothis is rightly concerned that the trans lobby is instrumental in causing lasting harm to children in pursuit of their social dogma.
" The Trans Lobby " this is pure Neo -puritian / populist far right hyperbole that dismisses experts and the evidence base in favour of a ' commonsense' patriarchal reinforcement of white christian cisgender heterosexual 'normality'

we are talking about the use of evidence based protocols which are 30 years old here at core , although the Australians and Canadians have developed from the Dutch Model in the past decade.
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InArduisFouette
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#85
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(Original post by Dandaman1)
And to society in general.

Teen suicide rates have been going up in recent years and I wouldn't be surprised if the trans lobby influenced this. Adolescents have a hard enough time figuring themselves out, and now they're being bombarded with all this crap.
says someone advocating the re introduction of S.28 and engaging in punching down against LGBT people ...

give your head a wobble
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#86
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#86
(Original post by InArduisFouette)
" The Trans Lobby " this is pure Neo -puritian / populist far right hyperbole that dismisses experts and the evidence base in favour of a ' commonsense' patriarchal reinforcement of white christian cisgender heterosexual 'normality'
The Middleborough reflex anal dilation so-called experts (Marietta Higgs and Geoffrey Wyatt) said something very similar when they were getting scores of children taken into care over a period of about six months and having their parents gaoled for child sex abuse.
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eggboydraco
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#87
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(Original post by Good bloke)
I think Yudothis is rightly concerned that the trans lobby is instrumental in causing lasting harm to children in pursuit of their social dogma.
You say this like anyone, trans or otherwise, WANTS kids to be trans. Here's a fact for you: Nobody wants to be trans. No one wishes to "make other people trans". It's not a game and accusing trans people of harming kids, usually under the assumption that "they're hurting kids by making them trans!!!!", shows how little understanding there is for trans people. The 'trans lobby' is only to raise awareness for trans people already within society (which is sorely needed, considering the state this forum is in), whose existence is inherently politicised only to be criticised for being political through no fault of their own.

Any belief that trans people are trying to 'convert' others, especially kids, does not come from the trans community. It comes from transphobes trying to demonise trans people as if we're some kind of societal illness and using fear-mongering tactics to spread misinformation. This demonisation has happened throughout history to many marginalised groups eg. gay people, POC etc. In making out that our community is inherently harmful, they're only attempting to debase any argument we may present in any other discussion, such as bathroom laws ("think of the childreeenn!!"). It's not conducive to creating a functioning narrative between transgender and cisgender people, which is undoubtedly their intention.
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#88
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(Original post by eggboydraco)
You say this like anyone, trans or otherwise, WANTS kids to be trans.
If I were you I would try and separate out trans people from trans lobbyists/activists and their politcal machinations. I have said nothing about trans people. Adults can do as they wish. The potential harm to confused and impressionable children, on the other hand, is something that should be a matter of concern for everyone.
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InArduisFouette
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#89
(Original post by Good bloke)
The Middleborough reflex anal dilation so-called experts (Marietta Higgs and Geoffrey Wyatt) said something very similar when they were getting scores of children taken into care over a period of about six months and having their parents gaoled for child sex abuse.
this is not one or two practitioners in one place with no evidence base, this is hundreds of practitioners in dozens if not hundreds of locations, 30 years of current practice, decades more of disproven techniques ...
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InArduisFouette
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#90
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(Original post by Good bloke)
If I were you I would try and separate out trans people from trans lobbyists/activists and their politcal machinations. I have said nothing about trans people. Adults can do as they wish. The potential harm to confused and impressionable children, on the other hand, is something that should be a matter of concern for everyone.
you cannot make someone trans

the vast majority of trans people have to become activists and lobbyists to deal with the lies , bigotry and evidence free assertions that plague our everyday lives ...

you quite clearly are unaware of the diagnostic criteria for Gender Incongruence with Dysphoria as the ICD11 now entitles it ( Gender Dysphoria is ICD 10 (section F64. n ) and DSM5) and the specific exclusion of effeminacy in children assigned male at birth and also of 'being a tomboy' in children assigned female at birth
Last edited by InArduisFouette; 1 week ago
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InArduisFouette
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#91
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(Original post by eggboydraco)
You say this like anyone, trans or otherwise, WANTS kids to be trans. Here's a fact for you: Nobody wants to be trans. No one wishes to "make other people trans". It's not a game and accusing trans people of harming kids, usually under the assumption that "they're hurting kids by making them trans!!!!", shows how little understanding there is for trans people. The 'trans lobby' is only to raise awareness for trans people already within society (which is sorely needed, considering the state this forum is in), whose existence is inherently politicised only to be criticised for being political through no fault of their own.

Any belief that trans people are trying to 'convert' others, especially kids, does not come from the trans community. It comes from transphobes trying to demonise trans people as if we're some kind of societal illness and using fear-mongering tactics to spread misinformation. This demonisation has happened throughout history to many marginalised groups eg. gay people, POC etc. In making out that our community is inherently harmful, they're only attempting to debase any argument we may present in any other discussion, such as bathroom laws ("think of the childreeenn!!"). It's not conducive to creating a functioning narrative between transgender and cisgender people, which is undoubtedly their intention.
PRSOM

eggboydraco is spot glandular tissue on here ...

i don;t think anyone wants to be trans, i'm sure the vastest majority of trans folx would prefer to be cisgender person ( of either gender either their lived gender or the gender erroneously assigned at birth but without the Incongruence and Dysphoria )
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Dandaman1
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#92
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(Original post by InArduisFouette)
" The Trans Lobby " this is pure Neo -puritian / populist far right hyperbole that dismisses experts and the evidence base in favour of a ' commonsense' patriarchal reinforcement of white christian cisgender heterosexual 'normality'.
Ladies and gentlemen, it's the buzzword salad contest of March 2019 and it looks like we have a winner! Tell us what he's won,
Good bloke!

Tune in this weekend for Sophistry Sunday! Get your submissions ready, folks, because the competition this week looks fierce!
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fallen_acorns
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this thread has gotten ridiculous. Both sides are trying to deal in absolutes, and neither is actually considering how messy the situation is.

For me, I understand from the research I have read, my years as a trans individual and being around trans activists and individuals of all ages, my time with medical professionals, including going through a full diagnosis and the first two years of treatment with the NHS, that the following statements are all true:

1,for individuals with GD (gender dysphoria), puberty blockers are one of the most effective and positive treatments possible
2, individuals with GD make up a small number of individuals who express GV (gender variance)
3, diagnosis isn't easy, and is in fact particularly difficult, even for those who have extensive training
4, misdiagnosis do occur ( I am one.)
5, currently by all estimates, the number of misdiagnosis is very very small
6, the potential for misdiagnosis however is high, were the larger pool of GV kids to be mislead into confusing GV with GD
7, puberty blockers are relatively risk-free and safe. They do have issues, but so do most medical interventions, very few have no possible side effects or unwanted consequences if you are only on them for a few years, then cease treatment to continue your puberty
8, long-term consequences can happen if you follow through with the treatment though. For example a trans-woman, born as male, who started puberty blockers age 11, then continued on to HRT after, would find themselves infertile by the time they are 20, with no possibility of reversing it. Most of the negative effects are not from the puberty blockers, but from the following HRT though.
9, There have been many long-term studies on puberty blockers, but none that comprehensibly study their use in trans-children over a sufficient period, most of the older long-term studies focus on other puberty-related medical problems
10, There is a huge rise in the number of cases of GD within pre-pubesent individuals, especially on the FTM side - due to its recency, this new rise has not been properly studied, documented or explained yet.
11, de-transitioning individuals do exist (I am one) but their number is currently very very small
12, concerned parents are increasingly recognising both GD dyshporia and GV within their children. There is no evidecne to suggest they are being miex up on mass.

---

I think, considering these, its easy to see both sides of the argument:

From the right's perspective - they can see the potential for a huge problem. There isn't any evidence that the problem is happening right now, not on any scale that we would be worried about - at the most its a tiny number of misdiagnosis currently, and an even smaller number of these happen pre-puberty, and an even smaller number persist until the effects become irreversable. But they can see the peices of a huge problem all there. Its like an unmade jigsaw, the peices are all there, but its not been put together yet.. and at the moment doesn't represent what they are worried it could. Their bias against trans people, causes them to value the potential problem higher then the potential good it can do for trans individuals.

From the trans-activist/left side - they (rightly) deny that it is a problem at the moment.. because there isn't any evidence that it is... but they are also unwiling to consider the potential problem that could happen, because they are biased towards seeing the positives that this could all have for trans individuals. So they deny not only that there is a problem, but that any potential for a problem exists or is growing. Its all positive and nothing is worrying etc.

In reality - we just need to be honest and keep an eye on how gender amoung young individuals develops over time. We need to make sure that both options are equally heard during the process, from the initial possibility of a diagnosis, to the eventual treatment - including the possibility that they would be happier continuing in their current gender, and just being GV. From my personal experiance this was options was never voiced. From the moment I expressed any form of inclination towards transgenderism, to my time with my GP, to my time in one of the UKs specialist NHS gender clinics, my time with a gender counselor and a therapist, and my time within lots of LGBT groups - not once was the possition 'Maybe you shouldn't do this because... X/Y/Z' expressed. And I know for certain that had anyone dared say that within those groups, they would have been called transphobic for questioning me, and quickly kicked out. We need to have every option open and equally on the table for young people.. some may want to transition, some may be happier in their current gender, just expressing their GV in more casual ways. We can't have the attitude that if you dare question a childs transition - you are transphobic and shouldn't be listened to.

(I am sure there are some great groups that talk through all the options, and don't present the trans-path as a 1-way street from discovery to sugery.. but that wasn't my experiance at all)
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