U.K. must take back U.K. born isis fighters. Should we? Watch

Davij038
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#21
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#21
(Original post by Parvus et Magnus)
'The vast majority of Muslims would support leniency from the British government'.

You may be right in noting that those with family in ISIS may be disillusioned by their emotions and may start justifying their acts based on irrational feelings of family love, but the vast majority of Muslims do not have friends and family involved in the fight. They can dissociate themselves from emotional irrationality and are likely to support punishment, which in this case, is disallowing their return to the UK.

Nothing to do with emotions or disillusionment. Families family. That’s why do many of them protected or and covered up for them when they left, in addition to social stigma
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Bobo344
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#22
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(Original post by davij038)
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ish-army-chief.

Basically there are 800 isis fighters who happened to be born in europe, i imagine at least a hundred of these are ‘british’. There are also suspected hundreds of isis members that have already returned to the u.k.

The uk’s home sectretary (himself a pakistan muslim) has stated that heck would prevent the turn of some of these isis detainees from returning to u.k. Soil.

A leading ‘counter terrorism expert’ has said that not allowing isis members to return will fuel isis’s narrative and lead to more isis recruits.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.t...es-sajid-javid


do you think we should let these fighters back on the uk to face trial? If so why/ why not?
they should not be allowed in our country but if they are they should be put in jail
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Parvus et Magnus
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#23
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#23
(Original post by Davij038)
Nothing to do with emotions or disillusionment. Families family. That’s why do many of them protected or and covered up for them when they left, in addition to social stigma
I disagree. When the family pleaded for her return, the plead may have been emotionally motivated.
'Family is family'- well, and those who get disowned? That statement is simply inadequate.
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Profesh
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#24
Should such cases not simply be tried as treason?
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Davij038
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#25
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#25
(Original post by Parvus et Magnus)
I disagree. When the family pleaded for her return, the plead may have been emotionally motivated.
'Family is family'- well, and those who get disowned? That statement is simply inadequate.
How many get disowned?

Well of course emotion is going to be involved when dealing with family
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proton & neutron
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#26
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#26
(Original post by Davij038)
The UK’s home sectretary (himself a Pakistan Muslim) has stated that heck would prevent the turn of some of these isis detainees from returning to U.K. Soil.
He doesn’t actually have the power to stop British citizens entering the UK and this rhetoric is for the tabloid press.


(Original post by Davij038)
Basically there are 800 isis fighters who happened to be born in Europe, I imagine at least a hundred of these are ‘British’. There are also suspected hundreds of isis members that have already returned to the U.K.
A leading ‘counter terrorism expert’ has said that not allowing isis members to return will fuel isis’s narrative and lead to more isis recruits.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.t...es-sajid-javid
Of course it will fuel their narrative I noticed you put their nationality (British) in air quotes although you may have done it accidentally in the UK especially in England we have a serious problem with questioning the Britishness or especially Englishness of people born in the UK who are not white.

Does anyone honestly believe if these girls were white and bottle blond we would be talking about banishing these girls?

We would be talking about brainwashing, Stockholm syndrome and the blatant grooming of children that this actually is - 15 year olds don’t get on flights to war zones out of nowhere

The tabloids would be campaigning to bring our girls home?


(Original post by Davij038)
Do you think we should let these fighters back on the UK to face trial? If so why/ why not?
Of course we should this is a British mess and in what world is it logical to leave a bunch of banished terrorist to form there own state let alone deliberately fuel their hate towards the UK - we should be doing our best to make the world a safer place by detaining those who are dangerous and working to rehabilitate them.
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Parvus et Magnus
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#27
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#27
(Original post by Davij038)
How many get disowned?

Well of course emotion is going to be involved when dealing with family
That supports my very first post.

Just as a matter of spreading awareness:

If you consider some LGBT individuals, those who refuse to submit to their parent's religion, some of those with mental health-related issues, those who have committed crimes, individuals disowned by their family due to underage pregnancy and those with grave sexual transmitted conditions.
The list goes on and the statistic is higher than you may initially think.
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Tempest II
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#28
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#28
(Original post by Davij038)
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ish-army-chief.

Basically there are 800 isis fighters who happened to be born in Europe, I imagine at least a hundred of these are ‘British’. There are also suspected hundreds of isis members that have already returned to the U.K.

The UK’s home sectretary (himself a Pakistan Muslim) has stated that heck would prevent the turn of some of these isis detainees from returning to U.K. Soil.

A leading ‘counter terrorism expert’ has said that not allowing isis members to return will fuel isis’s narrative and lead to more isis recruits.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.t...es-sajid-javid


Do you think we should let these fighters back on the UK to face trial? If so why/ why not?
Classing Sajid Javid as Muslim is about as accurate as classing me as a Christian. Yes, I went to a Roman Catholic school & occasionally RC Church up until the age of 10 but I'm classing me as anything other than an atheist now would be ridiculous.
Heck, the fact that the Times of Israel speaks so positively of him ought to tell you how much of a Muslim he is!

https://www.timesofisrael.com/meet-s...may-become-pm/
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Tempest II
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#29
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#29
(Original post by proton & neutron)
He doesn’t actually have the power to stop British citizens entering the UK and this rhetoric is for the tabloid press.




Of course it will fuel their narrative I noticed you put their nationality (British) in air quotes although you may have done it accidentally in the UK especially in England we have a serious problem with questioning the Britishness or especially Englishness of people born in the UK who are not white.

Does anyone honestly believe if these girls were white and bottle blond we would be talking about banishing these girls?

We would be talking about brainwashing, Stockholm syndrome and the blatant grooming of children that this actually is - 15 year olds don’t get on flights to war zones out of nowhere

The tabloids would be campaigning to bring our girls home?




Of course we should this is a British mess and in what world is it logical to leave a bunch of banished terrorist to form there own state let alone deliberately fuel their hate towards the UK - we should be doing our best to make the world a safer place by detaining those who are dangerous and working to rehabilitate them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samantha_Lewthwaite

I don't care what their skin colour or family heritage is.
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proton & neutron
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(Original post by Tempest II)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samantha_Lewthwaite

I don't care what their skin colour or family heritage is.
My point was the hypocritical at best treatment of nieve teenage girls (i.e. children) who have clearly been groomed into becoming war brides (i.e. sexual slavery) vs Samantha Lewthwaite (who is also called the White widow) who is actually suspected of killing 100s of people and yet to hear the British Government or tabloids suggest she should be banished.
Last edited by proton & neutron; 4 weeks ago
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Davij038
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#31
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#31
(Original post by Tempest II)
Classing Sajid Javid as Muslim is about as accurate as classing me as a Christian. Yes, I went to a Roman Catholic school & occasionally RC Church up until the age of 10 but I'm classing me as anything other than an atheist now would be ridiculous.
Heck, the fact that the Times of Israel speaks so positively of him ought to tell you how much of a Muslim he is!

https://www.timesofisrael.com/meet-s...may-become-pm/
So you can only be a proper Muslim if you’re anti Israel ? 😂 I agree, but only on the way you cant be a real Christian and accept gay marriage and abortion. He has referred to himself as a muslim.
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Davij038
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#32
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#32
(Original post by proton & neutron)
My point was the hypocritical at best treatment of nieve teenage girls (i.e. children) who have clearly been groomed into becoming war brides (i.e. sexual slavery) vs Samantha Lewthwaite (who is also called the White widow) who is actually suspected of killing 100s of people and yet to hear the British Government or tabloids suggest she should be banished.
The tabloids wte after her blood and happy when she got blown up.

As for your other point. White children are less than 1% of those going off to fight for ISIS. This is not a white problem and your not being honest if you are presenting it as one.
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The RAR
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Ok I am getting the feeling that OP has some political agenda to push here, are you basically saying we should stop and maybe even deport all the Muslims from the UK? And maybe non white people as well while we are at it? Because this is the strong feeling I am getting by reading your original post, what do you mean by we should have not allowed "them" in the country in the first place?
Last edited by The RAR; 4 weeks ago
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modifiedgenes
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#34
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Nope, let the authorities in the surrounding countries detain them indefinitely. If that means paying them cash out of the aid budget that is AOK by me.

These people are a security risk to westerners, pure and simple.
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The RAR
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(Original post by modifiedgenes)
Nope, let the authorities in the surrounding countries detain them indefinitely. If that means paying them cash out of the aid budget that is AOK by me.

These people are a security risk to westerners, pure and simple.
I am in no way trying to defend these mainicas, but I read somewhere in an article that the authorities there are overwhelmed and that if these people could face trial back in their own countries it would make their job so much easier. Also since the authorities there are more likely to be corrupt, these terrorists will stay in a cell for no longer than 2 years
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modifiedgenes
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(Original post by The RAR)
I am in no way trying to defend these mainicas, but I read somewhere in an article that the authorities there are overwhelmed and that if these people could face trial back in their own countries it would make their job so much easier. Also since the authorities there are more likely to be corrupt, these terrorists will stay in a cell for no longer than 2 years
Pay them to build prisons and keep them in jail forever.
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ColinDent
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#37
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Nah fook em, they made their choice and now they can live with it.
Everyone that has been in Syria fighting or helping the Deash cause is extremely dangerous to the United Kingdom, try to rehabilitate them all you like but they've been indoctrinated and will do/say anything they can to get back into this country and cause some sort of atrocity.
Age is not the issue here, it's mental stability which they lack, because anyone that is willing to kill over a work of fiction is not right in the head.
Edit. I don't care what race, colour or creed they are because every religion has the lunatic nutjobs that want to commit such atrocities, organised religion is the worst thing that has ever happened to the world, people may as well be arguing over which is most correct out of Harry Potter and The Worst Witch.
Last edited by ColinDent; 4 weeks ago
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Davij038
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#38
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#38
(Original post by The RAR)
Ok I am getting the feeling that OP has some political agenda to push here, are you basically saying we should stop and maybe even deport all the Muslims from the UK? And maybe non white people as well while we are at it? Because this is the strong feeling I am getting by reading your original post, what do you mean by we should have not allowed "them" in the country in the first place?
The only ones I would deport would be certain dual citizens from s non Muslim country in the Middle East who have their own country just for them.


I would massively cut immigration and then look towards paying non white immigration to leaving, but not deporting ( so long as they are law- abiding).
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Kwube123
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#39
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(Original post by ColinDent)
Nah fook em, they made their choice and now they can live with it.
Everyone that has been in Syria fighting or helping the Deash cause is extremely dangerous to the United Kingdom, try to rehabilitate them all you like but they've been indoctrinated and will do/say anything they can to get back into this country and cause some sort of atrocity.
Age is not the issue here, it's mental stability which they lack, because anyone that is willing to kill over a work of fiction is not right in the head.
Edit. I don't care what race, colour or creed they are because every religion has the lunatic nutjobs that want to commit such atrocities, organised religion is the worst thing that has ever happened to the world, people may as well be arguing over which is most correct out of Harry Potter and The Worst Witch.
Just imagine what happens when the 800 fighters escape when Turkey invades the Kurds in north eastern Syria we should take the fighters back but put them in prison, if the fighters escape they might even end up traveling back to Europe undetected
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The RAR
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(Original post by Davij038)
The only ones I would deport would be certain dual citizens from s non Muslim country in the Middle East who have their own country just for them.


I would massively cut immigration and then look towards paying non white immigration to leaving, but not deporting ( so long as they are law- abiding).
I don't get your first point, so the Muslims who have come into this country from the Middle East you would deport them, correct? Even if they have committed no crimes and certainly no terrorism.
And regarding your second point, this is something which was suggested by Enoch Powell, if those non white migrants refuse to leave no matter how much money you give them what will you do? Forced deportation? That would definitively be racist.
And under what conditions will you deport the non-white migrants, for petty crimes or big crimes like murder combined? Why don't you deport white migrants who commit the same crimes as well? It will seem more fair and way less racist then. The recent crimes in London from burglary to acid throwing have been committed mainly by black and Eastern European (white) men.
And that brings me to my last point, what about the non-white people who were born in this country where are you going to deport them if they commit crimes? If you say their ethnic country, what if the country refuses to take them?
Last edited by The RAR; 4 weeks ago
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