Begum no longer British - Are UK muslims concerned it could happen to them?? Watch

Chakede
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After Sajid Javed revoked Shamima Begums passport, are other uk born muslims concerned that, following a criminal offense such as sympathising with islamist causes, they could also be forced to go to for example, Pakistan, Somalia, afganistan Bangladesh etc
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celina10
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no I'm a law abiding citizen so I'm not and good she deserves it
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ecolier
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(Original post by Chakede)
After Sajid Javed revoked Shamima Begums passport, are other uk born muslims concerned that, following a criminal offense such as sympathising with islamist causes, they could also be forced to go to for example, Pakistan, Somalia, afganistan Bangladesh etc
They shouldn't be. Good **** stirring question though.

The circumstances in this lady's case are quite rare.

Also, she is allowed to challenge the decision legally - we have to await the eventual final outcome of her case.
Last edited by ecolier; 3 weeks ago
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Fekky.
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Well im a Muslim myself and I fully agree that if you are a terrorist or sympathetic to their causes you should get out of our country. So no, not worried at all.
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DeetsGuy
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Sh*t stirring indeed. There is no plausibility in this. This is a first and has not set a precedent unless any UK muslims plan on joining terrorist organisations - which is not the norm.

Perhaps if you'd asked, "are UK radicals who have joined terrorist organisations and plan on returning to the UK scared?", it would have been better.
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gr8wizard10
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yes, concerned about the legality and surprisingly neglect towards bias.

what people seem to forget is the likelihood of coercion. to be named stateless without concrete proof that she isn't being manipulated to symphatise with ISIS. also grooming and brainwashing is a feature here.

hope this decision makers can live with their decision, should anything awful happen to this girl.
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Chakede
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(Original post by DeetsGuy)
Sh*t stirring indeed. There is no plausibility in this. This is a first and has not set a precedent unless any UK muslims plan on joining terrorist organisations - which is not the norm.

Perhaps if you'd asked, "are UK radicals who have joined terrorist organisations and plan on returning to the UK scared?", it would have been better.
the question is valid- what seems to be is your limited understanding of uk law. under legislation that came in under tony blair actually, if your parents held say, Pakistani passports and you committed a sympathy for terrorist group- type offense from your uk bedroom, you could suffer the same fate as Begum.
its amazing so many people are ignorant of the uk law and surprised when a case like this comes to fruition
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JohanGRK
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Top b8
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DeetsGuy
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(Original post by gr8wizard10)
yes, concerned about the legality and surprisingly neglect towards bias.

what people seem to forget is the likelihood of coercion. to be named stateless without concrete proof that she isn't being manipulated to symphatise with ISIS. also grooming and brainwashing is a feature here.

hope this decision makers can live with their decision, should anything awful happen to this girl.
If brainwashing, grooming and coercion was taken into consideration in affairs such as these, where would it stop? Would a murdered be allowed to walk free because his poor childhood might've turned him into a murdered so it can't be his fault?

She made her own choices. If she was brainwashed, it's because she was submissive to radical ideas - no sympathy. People have been tried as adults when they're 15. She went to Syria of her own free will and against her parents' issues.

The only sympathy I have is for the newborn which did not choose its mother and has been doomed too.
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Paracosm
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Someone who was actively a member of a terrorist organisation is not simply a 'muslim', she was and remains sympathetic towards a terrorist ideology that has been directly responsible for thousands of murders in the name of their regime. Many muslims would go further to argue that ISIL/ISIS/whatever don't represent their religion and doing it in the name of religion does not acquit them of responsibility for their actions.

She was not stripped of her citizenship for being a supporter of 'islamist causes', don't oversimplify a serious issue or be so eager to display your clear and inherent bias. She was stripped of her citizenship for showing support of and being a member of a terrorist organisation, which is against the law in this country.

I say this regardless of what I think about the actual stripping of her citizenship, simply because the question you have asked here is so unbelievably stupid.
Last edited by Paracosm; 3 weeks ago
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amaraub
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dont join isis guys and u should be fine
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DeetsGuy
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(Original post by Chakede)
the question is valid- what seems to be is your limited understanding of uk law. under legislation that came in under tony blair actually, if your parents held say, Pakistani passports and you committed a sympathy for terrorist group- type offense from your uk bedroom, you could suffer the same fate as Begum.
its amazing so many people are ignorant of the uk law and surprised when a case like this comes to fruition
Perhaps you should read into history and see what fear mongering messages like the one you've posted today can achieve. I am very much aware of UK law and although I struggled to read through your inarticulate message, you seem to be saying that "if your parents had Pakistani passports and you sympathised with terrorists, you could be stripped of your British Citizenship" - what is your point here? That is as swift and perfect as justice gets. Sympathising with terrorists should not and, hopefully, will not be tolerated.

Your claim that the question is "still valid" was invalidated by you changing your story. Initially you questioned if "UK Muslims" should be scared but then asked a question referring to "Terrorist Sympathisers whose parents hold Middle Eastern passports" and whether they should be scared.

To summarise: no UK muslims should not be scared. Yes, terrorist sympathisers (who you wrongly seem to be associating with Muslims) should be scared.
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Ascend
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(Original post by gr8wizard10)
to be named stateless without concrete proof that she isn't being manipulated to symphatise with ISIS.
She isn't stateless; a proud national of the Islamic State.
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Moments
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(Original post by gr8wizard10)
yes, concerned about the legality and surprisingly neglect towards bias.

what people seem to forget is the likelihood of coercion. to be named stateless without concrete proof that she isn't being manipulated to symphatise with ISIS. also grooming and brainwashing is a feature here.

hope this decision makers can live with their decision, should anything awful happen to this girl.
Where is the threshold between manipulation and one's own decision? Is religion itself not a form of manipulation/brainwashing?
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DeetsGuy
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(Original post by Paracosm)
Someone who was actively a member of a terrorist organisation is not simply a 'muslim', she was and remains sympathetic towards a terrorist ideology that has been directly responsible for thousands of murders in the name of their regime. Many muslims would go further to argue that what ISIL/ISIS/whatever don't represent their religion and doing it in the name of religion does not acquit them of responsibility for their actions.

She was not stripped of her citizenship for being a supporter of 'islamist causes', don't oversimplify a serious issue or be so eager to display your clear and inherent bias. She was stripped of her citizenship for showing support of and being a member of a terrorist organisation, which is against the law in this country.

I say this regardless of what I think about the actual stripping of her citizenship, simply because the question you have asked here is so unbelievably stupid.
Exactly that. OP seems to be trying to associate UK Muslims with Terrorist Sympathisers when truly, there is no correlation. I suggest you (OP) look within and question why this is.
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Paracosm
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(Original post by DeetsGuy)
Exactly that. OP seems to be trying to associate UK Muslims with Terrorist Sympathisers when truly, there is no correlation. I suggest you (OP) look within and question why this is.
We're completely agreed.
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Decahedron
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(Original post by Chakede)
After Sajid Javed revoked Shamima Begums passport, are other uk born muslims concerned that, following a criminal offense such as sympathising with islamist causes, they could also be forced to go to for example, Pakistan, Somalia, afganistan Bangladesh etc
All British people should fear the government if they join a terrorist group, religion and nationality doesn't matter.
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Chakede
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(Original post by Paracosm)
Someone who was actively a member of a terrorist organisation is not simply a 'muslim', she was and remains sympathetic towards a terrorist ideology that has been directly responsible for thousands of murders in the name of their regime. Many muslims would go further to argue that ISIL/ISIS/whatever don't represent their religion and doing it in the name of religion does not acquit them of responsibility for their actions.

She was not stripped of her citizenship for being a supporter of 'islamist causes', don't oversimplify a serious issue or be so eager to display your clear and inherent bias. She was stripped of her citizenship for showing support of and being a member of a terrorist organisation, which is against the law in this country.

I say this regardless of what I think about the actual stripping of her citizenship, simply because the question you have asked here is so unbelievably stupid.
Try reading the question - I gave the example of sympathising with islamist ( banned ) groups which is a criminal offense. Doing so whether via online chat forums is a criminal offense just so you know- and in fact was a direct cause for numerous british muslims being indoctrinated to go abroad to commit atrocities.

If you understood the law you wouldn't be quibbling about examples used- the law can also apply to other serious criminals ( murders rapists) of any faith group ) that can practically be stripped of uk citizenship, as it was for some Jamaican born brits a few months ago
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999tigger
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(Original post by Chakede)
the question is valid- what seems to be is your limited understanding of uk law. under legislation that came in under tony blair actually, if your parents held say, Pakistani passports and you committed a sympathy for terrorist group- type offense from your uk bedroom, you could suffer the same fate as Begum.
its amazing so many people are ignorant of the uk law and surprised when a case like this comes to fruition
My impression is you are just stirring The Begum case is by no means settled and will be subject to appeal. This will help them establish the facts and whether Javid can revoke in those given circumstances. It is questionable whether he can.
The vast majority of muslims are law abiding, so they would have no reason to worry.
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Paracosm
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(Original post by Chakede)
Try reading the question - I gave the example of sympathising with islamist ( banned ) groups which is a criminal offense. Doing so whether via online chat forums is a criminal offense just so you know- and in fact was a direct cause for numerous british muslims being indoctrinated to go abroad to commit atrocities.

If you understood the law you wouldn't be quibbling about examples used- the law can also apply to other serious criminals ( murders rapists) of any faith group ) that can practically be stripped of uk citizenship, as it was for some Jamaican born brits a few months ago
The solution is quite simple. Don't break the law and don't sympathise with terrorists or join terrorist groups.

Shouldn't be too hard. Super simple stuff.
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