SHAMIMA BEGUM - should be allowed to enter country? Watch

harry brennan
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I think she should...

1) British security control allowed her to leave - we therefore failed her
2) women in ISIS have no power - it is unlikely she committed any punishable by law acts while she was there
3) from watching her interviews it is apparent she is very unlikely to be a spy
4)it was her human right until citizenship was taken away, Britain are trying to make her another countries problem
5) No person should be made to stay in an organisation such as ISIS against their will, especially now she has so much media attention and probably will be killed by members

just think she should come back, be locked away in prison or rehabilitation unit and her son put up for adoption.
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HRJ210
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I respect your opinion, however I disagree.

To allow someone back into the UK, when they have clear sympathy towards a terrorist organisation, would be a major mistake, and by sending her to a prison, or a rehabilitation unit, she would be living off of taxpayer money. Although it will cost very little economically, the money could be put to better use.

Although it is true that Jihadi-Brides do not fight for the Islamic State, they are still a supportive part of a terrorist organisation.

She likely only wants to return to Britain because ISIS is on the retreat.

I do agree with you on one thing however. The child has not committed any crimes, and should be put up for adoption in the UK.
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Mactotaur
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(Original post by harry brennan)
I think she should...

1) British security control allowed her to leave - we therefore failed her
2) women in ISIS have no power - it is unlikely she committed any punishable by law acts while she was there
3) from watching her interviews it is apparent she is very unlikely to be a spy
4)it was her human right until citizenship was taken away, Britain are trying to make her another countries problem
5) No person should be made to stay in an organisation such as ISIS against their will, especially now she has so much media attention and probably will be killed by members

just think she should come back, be locked away in prison or rehabilitation unit and her son put up for adoption.
She would hardly be a good spy if you could tell, would she?

Yes, Britain are trying to make her Bangladesh's problem, because it's a lot easier logistically than a) having to make sure she's not going to start a solo cell, and b) because a good 75% of the country want her head on a plate. However, I'm sure you've seen that Bangladesh want none of it. Will be interesting to see how this develops.
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ThunderBeard
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(Original post by HRJ210)
I respect your opinion, however I disagree.

To allow someone back into the UK, when they have clear sympathy towards a terrorist organisation, would be a major mistake, and by sending her to a prison, or a rehabilitation unit, she would be living off of taxpayer money. Although it will cost very little economically, the money could be put to better use.

Although it is true that Jihadi-Brides do not fight for the Islamic State, they are still a supportive part of a terrorist organisation.

She likely only wants to return to Britain because ISIS is on the retreat.

I do agree with you on one thing however. The child has not committed any crimes, and should be put up for adoption in the UK.
Surely the child would object to this as they get older and know of this. She was believer in the ideology and that and the reluctance of the government to allow her in could manipulate her child lest they meet. Naturally the child would be very against this and may be a threat in the future
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ChrisChristian
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Noo
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HRJ210
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(Original post by ThunderBeard)
Surely the child would object to this as they get older and know of this. She was believer in the ideology and that and the reluctance of the government to allow her in could manipulate her child lest they meet. Naturally the child would be very against this and may be a threat in the future
Possibly, you may be right, it just depends on how the government handles it. If they are brought up in a British family, with traditional British morale standards, they will likely grow up condemning the actions of their parents. If they are brought up in an Islamic household, this may be completely different.
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999tigger
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(Original post by harry brennan)
I think she should...

1) British security control allowed her to leave - we therefore failed her
2) women in ISIS have no power - it is unlikely she committed any punishable by law acts while she was there
3) from watching her interviews it is apparent she is very unlikely to be a spy
4)it was her human right until citizenship was taken away, Britain are trying to make her another countries problem
5) No person should be made to stay in an organisation such as ISIS against their will, especially now she has so much media attention and probably will be killed by members

just think she should come back, be locked away in prison or rehabilitation unit and her son put up for adoption.
1. Its really feeble to blame the UK for her decision to evade security and go to Syria. How about she accept some responsibility for her own actions. What about her parents and family?
2. You dont know what offences she committed, she seems to have joined ISIS and that's an illegal organisation for which you can go to prison for of you are a member.
3. Nobody has suggested she is a spy, but we dont know if she is reformed. She has expressed no remorse. She could be a sleeper or help other isis members in the future.
4. Much better she is someone elses problem because the overwhelming majority dont want her back here. She supported an organisation that seeks the destruction of this country.
5. It was her decision to join and its her choice if she wnats to leave. nothing to do with the UK.
6. Why have her back if it can be avoided? Why waste all that money on her when it can be spent on someone more deserving?
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mgi
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(Original post by harry brennan)
I think she should...

1) British security control allowed her to leave - we therefore failed her
2) women in ISIS have no power - it is unlikely she committed any punishable by law acts while she was there
3) from watching her interviews it is apparent she is very unlikely to be a spy
4)it was her human right until citizenship was taken away, Britain are trying to make her another countries problem
5) No person should be made to stay in an organisation such as ISIS against their will, especially now she has so much media attention and probably will be killed by members

just think she should come back, be locked away in prison or rehabilitation unit and her son put up for adoption.
British security did not fail her. She used her sister's passport to pretend she was someone else, sneaked out of the UK to Turkey then in to Syria. No Shamima Begum failed herself by carrying out deliberate acts of deception and by knowingly being a sympathiser of Isis and repeatedly getting pregnant under those circumstances. Why should the British taxpayer have to pay further for her foolish behaviour and comments?
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username1456920
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(Original post by harry brennan)
I think she should...

1) British security control allowed her to leave - we therefore failed her
2) women in ISIS have no power - it is unlikely she committed any punishable by law acts while she was there
3) from watching her interviews it is apparent she is very unlikely to be a spy
4)it was her human right until citizenship was taken away, Britain are trying to make her another countries problem
5) No person should be made to stay in an organisation such as ISIS against their will, especially now she has so much media attention and probably will be killed by members

just think she should come back, be locked away in prison or rehabilitation unit and her son put up for adoption.
To add to this, we need to take into consideration that she was a vulnerable 15 year old girl most likely exploited and brainwashed to join ISIS her mental health then probably deteriorated by what she saw and experienced whilst she was there. The killings, the deaths, the loss of her children.

However we also need to take into consideration the possible threat she could be, the impact she would have on other people.

What about the innocent life of her child too? And not to forget the case of stripping her nationality can she really have no citizenship according to human rights? I'm not sure if that's even legal.
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username1456920
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(Original post by HRJ210)
I do agree with you on one thing however. The child has not committed any crimes, and should be put up for adoption in the UK.
Why put up for adoption instead of giving the child to other family members?
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The RAR
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Bangladesh just said they want nothing to do with her. I knew stripping off someone's citizenship would not be that easy. Let's be honest here, apart from ethnicity she does not have any connection with Bangladesh. She was born and bred in the UK and was "brainwashed" here so she should be and I hate to say this, our problem. Bangladesh has enough on its hands; high crime levels, poverty, a authoritarian government etc...the last thing they want is terrorists in their country. She will most likely win her appeal if the Dutch also turn her away (Which they most certainly will, Holland is less tolerant than the UK), just lock her up in a high security prison and be done with it.
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999tigger
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(Original post by TSA)
Why put up for adoption instead of giving the child to other family members?
They didnt do a very good job with her.
The mother could still indoctrinate the child.
If the child comes back to the UK, then it will have a team of social workers and a lawyer to represent its interests.
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londonmyst
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I disagree with you.
If she obtained British citizenship by naturalization or her parents were not UK passport holders at the time of her birth, she should never be allowed to set foot in Britain or any British overseas territory again.

1) She entered into a criminal conspiracy with isis-daesh while she was within the UK, stole money from her parents and illegally used her sister's passport to travel so that she could join isis.

2) The al khansaa section within isis-daesh were a very powerful and brutal female only religious inquisition/torture & murder squad- often more violent and fanatical than some of the male mercenaries fighting on behalf of isis for a weekly salary.

3) By her own admission she is an unrepentant member of isis-daesh, other women and men with uk passports have received lengthy prison sentences for this crime.

4) She has made herself several other countries problem- syria along with the netherlands where it seems her husband was born.
She made both those choices, it may be that her descendants are entitled to hold the citizenship of both nations.

5) In her own words she supports both the values plus the violent tactics of isis-daesh, has chosen to remain a member and continues to share their vile ideology.
She chose to commit multiple crimes en route to isis-daesh, chose to become a member of the terror group, chose to keep such company and decided to marry a violent criminal member of isis-daesh.
She has also chosen to give constant media interviews, making a variety of horrifying comments in the english language and decided not to make any attempt to conceal her face or disguise her voice/identity.
As the old sayings go "be careful what you wish for, you might just get it" and "in for a penny, in for a pound".
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Plantagenet Crown
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Yes, as Bangladesh has rejected granting her citizenship and that was the only one she was entitled to aside from the British. She cannot be left stateless.
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alevels2020
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oh hell no, idc if women have no power in ISIS, she is a bloody terrorist. she chose to run away when she was 15, and don’t even use the “she was young” excuse. I’m 16 and would never join ISIS. just because she’s insane doesn’t mean the rest of the country has to suffer as well.
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harry brennan
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Bangladesh do not want her. Holland won’t want her. Do we leave her in Isis?
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999tigger
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(Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
Yes, as Bangladesh has rejected granting her citizenship and that was the only one she was entitled to aside from the British. She cannot be left stateless.
Shamima Begum is not a Bangladeshi citizen and there is "no question" of her being allowed into the country, Bangladesh's ministry of foreign affairs has said.


It doesnt say she cant apply, just she wasnt a dual national. It will have to be decided whether leaving someone stateless included someone who still has the option of applying for citizenship somewhere even if they have not exercised that right. Hence the court case. Wont surprise me if the HO has it wrong, but wait and see. keeping her out of the country for years might et them to the next election, even if they lose.
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londonmyst
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(Original post by HRJ210)
If they are brought up in a British family, with traditional British morale standards, they will likely grow up condemning the actions of their parents. If they are brought up in an Islamic household, this may be completely different.
You have made the mistake of hearing the toxic nonsense spewed by isis-daesh members, trusting in their words and on this basis conflating the islamic religion with their violent criminality.
Bad apples should never be allowed to tarnish other fruit with their revolting taint.

My best friend comes from a modern, law abiding british family who follow the liberal shia islamic sect led by the aga khan.
She was born in india, works as a model and her brother has an interfaith marriage.
I'm a lazy catholic.

Isis wife is more hated by jilbab & hijab wearing women and asian teenage girls, than anyone else.
Whilst many atheists are talking about "her human rights", "show some mercy to a teenage girl" and labeling her as a "victim of grooming/brainwashing/kidnap/ uk government persecution", very few coreligionists from either asian backgrounds or communities based in east london are willing to entertain the thought of ever allowing her to set foot in england.

Every single one of my friends who live east london are absolutely venomous towards her and her descendants.
The younger females tell me that they are feeling the effects of a total parental clampdown- with a total loss of money, privacy and freedom because of what isis wife and her pals have done.
A few of them have made comments to the effect that they will spit on her grave if she gets back into the uk and some psycho kills her.
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Ciel.
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(Original post by TSA)
Why put up for adoption instead of giving the child to other family members?
Well, clearly they failed as parents............
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Andrew97
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(Original post by harry brennan)
I think she should...

1) British security control allowed her to leave - we therefore failed her
2) women in ISIS have no power - it is unlikely she committed any punishable by law acts while she was there
3) from watching her interviews it is apparent she is very unlikely to be a spy
4)it was her human right until citizenship was taken away, Britain are trying to make her another countries problem
5) No person should be made to stay in an organisation such as ISIS against their will, especially now she has so much media attention and probably will be killed by members

just think she should come back, be locked away in prison or rehabilitation unit and her son put up for adoption.
1. No we didn’t. Don’t blame our fabulous security services for the actions of one person. She failed herself.
2. She was still a member? What’s your argument here? We should let her in because we can’t punish her? This isn’t true. At the very least we have joining s terror orginsation and fraud
3. It’s also apparent she hasn’t repented and still supports ISIS and their views, she wouldnt have turned up if ISIS were winning
4. British citizenship is a privilege, not a right.
5. She’s not.
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