'Anti-semitism row in Essex University student society vote'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-47319571
I think this is very disgraceful that a large amount of people are actively antisemitic at my own university including a lecturer.
I personally think that the people who voted against it should face some kind of punishment since it doesn't create a very safe and welcoming atmosphere if many of your own peers are holocaust deniers.
I think this is very disgraceful that a large amount of people are actively antisemitic at my own university including a lecturer.
I personally think that the people who voted against it should face some kind of punishment since it doesn't create a very safe and welcoming atmosphere if many of your own peers are holocaust deniers.
Punishing them will likely only inflame tensions further.
I would assume that the SU's procedure is basically the same as it was at my old uni, meaning that the society is still allowed to exist, they just won't actually get any grants or other support from the student union themselves. At my old uni this was already the case for the Christian Union, who were disaffiliated because the SU requires their societies to elect officers democratically.
It's not necessarily a question of supporting/opposing religion just one about whether a group can or should be supported by a charity whose goals do not necessarily align with those of the religious group.
Arguably a Jewish society is always going to have to deal with zionism at some point, not like they can just put their collective fingers in their ears and ignore the problem completely (although religious folk are pretty good at doing that). It may be better for everyone concerned to have some separation, rather than having two opposing groups continually trying to impart their ideals on one another.
If there are any actual, provable claims of anti-semitism they should definitely be acted on at once. But simply disagreeing that a religious society should receive SU funds and support is not anti-semitism.
It's not necessarily a question of supporting/opposing religion just one about whether a group can or should be supported by a charity whose goals do not necessarily align with those of the religious group.
Arguably a Jewish society is always going to have to deal with zionism at some point, not like they can just put their collective fingers in their ears and ignore the problem completely (although religious folk are pretty good at doing that). It may be better for everyone concerned to have some separation, rather than having two opposing groups continually trying to impart their ideals on one another.
If there are any actual, provable claims of anti-semitism they should definitely be acted on at once. But simply disagreeing that a religious society should receive SU funds and support is not anti-semitism.
The left have reached the point now where anti-Semitism is open and mainstream. You can thank the Labour party, Momentum and Corbyns lack of leadership for that.
I think it's good that the society has been ratified and definitely a step in the right direction for fighting anti-semitism on campus. I think it's unfortunate however that the SU were originally planning to take it to a second vote, rather than immediately ratifying the society as they should have done before.
In regards to anti-zionism, it's quite clear that this is completely synonymous with anti-semitism, and I think it's very dangerous for us as a University, and further as a society, to allow these types of views since they only serve to spread hate speech and attacks against the Jews and Israel.
Jews and people of Jewish culture should be supported and made to feel comfortable and welcome at our University, so it seems self-evident that a Jewish society should receive the support from the SU that it needs to function successfully.
In regards to anti-zionism, it's quite clear that this is completely synonymous with anti-semitism, and I think it's very dangerous for us as a University, and further as a society, to allow these types of views since they only serve to spread hate speech and attacks against the Jews and Israel.
Jews and people of Jewish culture should be supported and made to feel comfortable and welcome at our University, so it seems self-evident that a Jewish society should receive the support from the SU that it needs to function successfully.
Original post by Nalk1573
They don't need a "society". Most of those societies are for pokemon and video games and golfing.
Couldn't they just set up a facebook group or something.
Couldn't they just set up a facebook group or something.
Yes of course they should and of course you would say the same about Islamic societies or Feminist societies wouldn't you?🙄
Original post by acc784951623
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-47319571
I think this is very disgraceful that a large amount of people are actively antisemitic at my own university including a lecturer.
I personally think that the people who voted against it should face some kind of punishment since it doesn't create a very safe and welcoming atmosphere if many of your own peers are holocaust deniers.
I think this is very disgraceful that a large amount of people are actively antisemitic at my own university including a lecturer.
I personally think that the people who voted against it should face some kind of punishment since it doesn't create a very safe and welcoming atmosphere if many of your own peers are holocaust deniers.
Interesting story, but they made a mistake in the voting. ofc it will be allowed, but you can hardly be surprised that the actions of the Jewish state are seen as controversial and thats theres some grey area between whether its a political society or a cultural one.
I disagree that a student voting against the opening of a society should be punished, thats ridiculous overkill. they should just run it again and give time for the people who object to voice those objections. I expect most of them will disappear.
I think the holocaust denier angle is being overplayed as all it says Posts also appeared to have been shared from the account which appeared to deny the Holocaust. If true hes likely to be disciplined, but it doesnt say everyone else.
Original post by Nalk1573
It shows incredible narcissism and egotism.
I think the difference is that an Islamist uni society would be for everyone and more open for people curious about the religion, as it encourages that kind of openess to non-Muslims.
As for a feminist society, they too would allow people who were not feminists in because that kind of society encourages debate with anti-feminists.
However a Jewish society would be highly exclusionary and secretive.
It shows incredible narcissism and egotism.
I think the difference is that an Islamist uni society would be for everyone and more open for people curious about the religion, as it encourages that kind of openess to non-Muslims.
As for a feminist society, they too would allow people who were not feminists in because that kind of society encourages debate with anti-feminists.
However a Jewish society would be highly exclusionary and secretive.
I think you intended to type Islamic uni society and accidentally wrote "Islamist uni society".
Original post by Nalk1573
They don't need a "society". Most of those societies are for pokemon and video games and golfing.
Couldn't they just set up a facebook group or something.
Couldn't they just set up a facebook group or something.
I'm fairly certain you need a society to book rooms, and for planning other student events and such.
Original post by Dez
It's not necessarily a question of supporting/opposing religion just one about whether a group can or should be supported by a charity whose goals do not necessarily align with those of the religious group.
So disagreeing with the line mandated by the politburo means you cannot have a society and consequently won't be allowed to use normal student facilities like meeting rooms?
You really aren't liberal at all, are you?
Whatever happened to the universities that were hotbeds of controversial opinion?
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by Good bloke
So disagreeing with the line mandated by the politburo means you cannot have a society and consequently won't be allowed to use normal student facilities like meeting rooms?
You really aren't liberal at all, are you?
Whatever happened to the universities that were hotbeds of controversial opinion?
You really aren't liberal at all, are you?
Whatever happened to the universities that were hotbeds of controversial opinion?
It usually depends on the specific circumstances; what the disagreement is about, how far the disagreement goes and what motivates it.
In general university premises should be venues of debate and discussion, with controversial topics/opinions as typical as a campus bar or student accommodation.
However, some deeply controversial and vile but lawful membership
groups should never be allowed to establish a presence on any uk university campus.
Groups like the US westboro baptist church, kkk/aryan brotherhood, edl, britain first and the national front.
Same applies to all groups that advocate violence/criminality or lobby for the rights of paedophiles to be allowed to have sexual contact with children.
Even groups focused solely upon divisive social issues like brexit, anti-abortion protests and fundamentalist religion- present a challenge to unis as regards balancing free speech/freedom of assembly rights with their duty of care, ensuring a safe environment and avoiding funding/hosting associations that bring the uni into disrepute.
Original post by londonmyst
Even groups focused solely upon divisive social issues like brexit, anti-abortion protests and fundamentalist religion- present a challenge to unis as regards balancing free speech/freedom of assembly rights with their duty of care, ensuring a safe environment and avoiding funding/hosting associations that bring the uni into disrepute.
And that is the problem. This so-called duty of care, as used, is merely a means of enabling the politburo to threaten to bring in rent-a-mob if it doesn't like your views, thus getting the event cancelled. Very illiberal. Very regressive. Totalitarian.
Original post by Good bloke
And that is the problem. This so-called duty of care, as used, is merely a means of enabling the politburo to threaten to bring in rent-a-mob if it doesn't like your views, thus getting the event cancelled. Very illiberal. Very regressive. Totalitarian.
No, it's not the duty of care that most uni's cite.
Mostly it is the woefully misnamed "safe space" where academic discussions require automatic "trigger warnings"- used by many unis to try to avoid snowflake intolerants from melting into a pool of their own outrage.
Sadly a lot of these "safe space" campuses have significant problems with violent attacks and sexual assaults upon students.
“
They’re not “holocaust deniers”, you’re overreacting; there’s more to the story.
“However, some students have said they did not object to the society in principle but to its proposals to promote the Israeli national day and explore Zionism, which they argue are political rather than religious topics”.
One student who wished to remain anonymous said: "Unfortunately this manifesto excludes a huge proportion of the Jewish community and implies that all Jews support the Israeli state. Judaism should not be conflated with Israel."
Original post by acc784951623
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-47319571
I think this is very disgraceful that a large amount of people are actively antisemitic at my own university including a lecturer.
I personally think that the people who voted against it should face some kind of punishment since it doesn't create a very safe and welcoming atmosphere if many of your own peers are holocaust deniers.
I think this is very disgraceful that a large amount of people are actively antisemitic at my own university including a lecturer.
I personally think that the people who voted against it should face some kind of punishment since it doesn't create a very safe and welcoming atmosphere if many of your own peers are holocaust deniers.
They’re not “holocaust deniers”, you’re overreacting; there’s more to the story.
“However, some students have said they did not object to the society in principle but to its proposals to promote the Israeli national day and explore Zionism, which they argue are political rather than religious topics”.
One student who wished to remain anonymous said: "Unfortunately this manifesto excludes a huge proportion of the Jewish community and implies that all Jews support the Israeli state. Judaism should not be conflated with Israel."
Original post by liquidconfidence
“However, some students have said they did not object to the society in principle but to its proposals to promote the Israeli national day and explore Zionism, which they argue are political rather than religious topics”.
That hardly seems relevant. Support for Israel is a perfectly reasonable position to take anyway. It is, after all, in accord with UK foreign policy. Why should the NUS politburo seek to stifle it?
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