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Davij038
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havent really been watching it lately cos it’s been terrible but figured this episode might be interesting which it was

Really annoying audience that just clapped at anything.felt an irrational hatred to that posh kid who loved ‘centrist’ Tories, hopefully he got mugged on the way back.

the Independent group

Very interesting seeing the response to
The Ind group from the Tories and labour.
The Tories were almost apologetic, whilst labour were on full attack mode. I can imagine spin doctors on both sides strategising Thick-of-it style about this.

A) The Cons are more vulnerable to defections and are likely to gain from the Ind group. Hence almost being sycophantic.
B) Theresa May is far closer to the ind group actually than Corbyn is. She probably genuinely misses them whilst Corbyn is glad they’ve gone.

Point nobody made.

- why are they registering as a business not a political party? Is there outside political Interference gong on? (Somehow I don’t think it’s the Russians 😂)

that isis bint

Very good point by the audience member about the Tories purposefully leaving it for the courts to let her in so they abdicate responsibility. Excellent example of liberal democracy in action. 👏🏻
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HighOnGoofballs
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The audience was genuinely dense.

Tory: "We've reduced the number of people living in absolute poverty by 400000 blah blah"

Audience Member: "Yeh, but I saw a homeless bloke near my local Tesco, THAT CAN'T BE TRUE!"

Audience: ferocious clapping.

Tory: "We're gonna increase NHS spending by 80 billion over the next 5 years"

Audience Member: "B..but my local youth center is underfunded cos we can't give kids with depression some liberal arts classes"

Audience: ferocious clapping

Newsflash people, just because you have an anecdotal problem in your local area, doesn't mean that the problem is prevalent throughout the country. If you want to exchange facts for facts or argue that a fact is illegitimate, great, but anedotal evidence versus statistical evidence is bonkers. I mean, just because I feel cold doesn't work doesn't mean global warming isn't happening.
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Davij038
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(Original post by HighOnGoofballs)
Tory: "We're gonna increase NHS spending by 80 billion over the next 5 years"

Audience Member: "B..but my local youth center is underfunded cos we can't give kids with depression some liberal arts classes"

Audience: ferocious clapping
😂😂😂

That said...

I generally disagree with this point of view.

We’re not robots that run purely on rational formulas. Eg statistically we’re more likely to be involved in a traffic accident than be a victim of terrorism. But that doesn’t mean somebody who is more concerned with terrorism is irrational.

few things piss me off more than seeing some wealthy economist sneer at the concerns of working class people, say about immigration or globalisation and respond with, ‘well, immigration actually brings in 0.02% of total GDP, so actually you’re a complete moron, learn to code peasant’.

What big brained supposedly liberal rationalist ‘facts don’t care about your feelings’ types fail to understand that is that our emotions shape how we interpret facts- we do not interpret them in a vacuum
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DSilva
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(Original post by HighOnGoofballs)
The audience was genuinely dense.

Tory: "We've reduced the number of people living in absolute poverty by 400000 blah blah"

Audience Member: "Yeh, but I saw a homeless bloke near my local Tesco, THAT CAN'T BE TRUE!"

Audience: ferocious clapping.

Tory: "We're gonna increase NHS spending by 80 billion over the next 5 years"

Audience Member: "B..but my local youth center is underfunded cos we can't give kids with depression some liberal arts classes"

Audience: ferocious clapping

Newsflash people, just because you have an anecdotal problem in your local area, doesn't mean that the problem is prevalent throughout the country. If you want to exchange facts for facts or argue that a fact is illegitimate, great, but anedotal evidence versus statistical evidence is bonkers. I mean, just because I feel cold doesn't work doesn't mean global warming isn't happening.
If you're working as a social worker and have have experienced first hand the depletion of council resources and the devastating impact that welfare cuts have had on people that rely on your services, then yes you are in a good position to rebuke the Tory politician who says everything is great because more people are in work etc.
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the bear
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it's not really question time without Diane Abbott...
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by Davij038)
😂😂😂



few things piss me off more than seeing some wealthy economist sneer at the concerns of working class people, say about immigration or globalisation and respond with, ‘well, immigration actually brings in 0.02% of total GDP, so actually you’re a complete moron, learn to code peasant’.
How about a poor or average income economist?

I bet quite a lot of the red faced gammon men have more cash and capital than an academic lol. Especially the millennial academics and economists.
Last edited by ChaoticButterfly; 7 months ago
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Davij038
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(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
How about a poor or average income economist?

I bet quite a lot of the red faced gammon men have more cash and capital than an academic lol. Especially the millennial academics and economists.
Sure.

But those types will end up working for NGOs etc, who are in turn funded by Soros types, who’ll have way more money, connections and influence than your typical boomer gammon.
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by Davij038)
Sure.

But those types will end up working for NGOs etc, who are in turn funded by Soros types, who’ll have way more money, connections and influence than your typical boomer gammon.
By that logic amazon warehouse workers cannot complain because they work for a billionaire.
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Davij038
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(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
By that logic amazon warehouse workers cannot complain because they work for a billionaire.
Only if they think Jeff Bezos is doing a great job and is morally right.
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by Davij038)
Only if they think Jeff Bezos is doing a great job and is morally right.
A sizable chunk of academics, especially those on the left do not like how univerisites are run. The same pressures and comprimises that come with needing to sell thier labout applies to most intelectuals. Not to mention that all think tanks and NGOs are not the same. Someone working for the think tank Class is hardly an ally to neoliberal liberals such as Soros, nor are they on his pay role.

If you do not have your own source of capital, it is almost impossible for anyone who has to sell their labour to not directly contribute to some pretty shady stuff.
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by Davij038)
Only if they think Jeff Bezos is doing a great job and is morally right.
A sizable chunk of academics, especially those on the left do not like how univerisites are run. The same pressures and comprimises that come with needing to sell thier labout applies to most intelectuals. Not to mention that all think tanks and NGOs are not the same. Someone working for the think tank Class is hardly an ally to neoliberal liberals such as Soros.

(Original post by Davij038)



Very good point by the audience member about the Tories purposefully leaving it for the courts to let her in so they abdicate responsibility. Excellent example of liberal democracy in action. 👏🏻
Yeah that is how liberal democracy is supposed to work. They are not purposefully leaving it to the courts, they have no choice but to leave it to the courts. The Sajid is activly postering to his right wing racist base by advocating the stipping her of UK citezenship. That audiance member does not understand how thier country works.
Last edited by ChaoticButterfly; 7 months ago
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Davij038
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(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
A sizable chunk of academics, especially those on the left do not like how univerisites are run. The same pressures and comprimises that come with needing to sell thier labout applies to most intelectuals. Not to mention that all think tanks and NGOs are not the same. Someone working for the think tank Class is hardly an ally to neoliberal liberals such as Soros.



Yeah that is how liberal democracy is supposed to work. They are not purposefully leaving it to the courts, they have no choice but to leave it to the courts. The Sajid is activly postering to his right wing racist base by advocating the stipping her of UK citezenship. That audiance member does not understand how thier country works.
Ok, this belaboured point has gone on far enough. The supposedly stupid ‘gammon’ has got more common sense and life experience
than your average left wing activist/ economics student regardless of who has more money or capital. And yes they can appear moronic sometimes, but their stupidity is in general far less harmful than some nitwit with a PHD in gender studies.

They probably believe their own gobberish, but their policies inadvertently help the Neoliberals. Indeed after perusing one of CLASS’s pieces on migration, they promote EXACTLY the same sort of claptrap as any neoliberal publication.

As to leaving it to the courts, **** that.
Last edited by Davij038; 7 months ago
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by Davij038)
Ok, this belaboured point has gone on far enough. The supposedly stupid ‘gammon’ has got more common sense and life experience
than your average left wing activist/ economics student regardless of who has more money or capital.
If by beleboured point you mean I totally destroyed a foundation of your argument lol. That annoying cultural marxist academic who has to sell thier labour and rents is more working class than your gammon men with a small property portfolio and you know it. Also what is this experience in? Knowlegde of being a landlord? Paying a mortagage? The experience most poeple actually accumulate is only relevent to the direct experience and the tiny bubble they exist in. All opinions on the wider picture involve reading the news, data analysis and the philosphy of science.

If the poeple who support free movement of capital also support free movement of people then good. I'm not going to start supporting the death penalty because some liberal billionaires also apposes it ffs.

Well it is how it works.
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Davij038
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(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
If by beleboured point you mean I totally destroyed a foundation of your argument lol. That annoying cultural marxist academic who has to sell thier labour and rents is more working class than your gammon men with a small property portfolio and you know it.

If the poeple who support free movement of capital also support free movement of people then good. I'm not going to start sopporting the death penalty because some liberal billionaires also apposes it ffs.

Well it is how it works.
Dream on 😂. It depends on how you would define class, which I don’t think is about money or capital (pretty sure this is what I was taught in sociology at college). For instance most footballers despite being minted, I would say are working class. And despite earning less than 20k a year I would still describe myself as middle class, due to my upbringing. The same is probably true of your average Marxist academic.

The difference is, the mass movement of people and capital is detrimental to helping the poor, which you espouse doing.

Yeah, and I think it’s wrong and want to change it 🤷🏻*♂️
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HighOnGoofballs
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(Original post by Davij038)
😂😂😂

That said...

I generally disagree with this point of view.

We’re not robots that run purely on rational formulas. Eg statistically we’re more likely to be involved in a traffic accident than be a victim of terrorism. But that doesn’t mean somebody who is more concerned with terrorism is irrational.

few things piss me off more than seeing some wealthy economist sneer at the concerns of working class people, say about immigration or globalisation and respond with, ‘well, immigration actually brings in 0.02% of total GDP, so actually you’re a complete moron, learn to code peasant’.

What big brained supposedly liberal rationalist ‘facts don’t care about your feelings’ types fail to understand that is that our emotions shape how we interpret facts- we do not interpret them in a vacuum
I agree with you, emotion is not irrational to consider, but when you're dealing with a national issue - like NHS funding - it is, by definition, irrational and stupid to extrapolate a local health center's lack of funding as synonymous with lack of NHS funding, for example.
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HighOnGoofballs
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(Original post by DSilva)
If you're working as a social worker and have have experienced first hand the depletion of council resources and the devastating impact that welfare cuts have had on people that rely on your services, then yes you are in a good position to rebuke the Tory politician who says everything is great because more people are in work etc.
No, you aren't, because your local health center makes up 0.01% of the NHS, so he cannot say - the NHS is underfunded, which is what he was trying to say. Rather, he can say, my local health center needs more funding, which, would be perfectly valid. It comes back to my analogy - just because I'm cold doesn't mean global warming doesn't exist.
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Davij038
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(Original post by HighOnGoofballs)
I agree with you, emotion is not irrational to consider, but when you're dealing with a national issue - like NHS funding - it is, by definition, irrational and stupid to extrapolate a local health center's lack of funding as synonymous with lack of NHS funding, for example.
PRSOM

remind me again, are you actually a Friedmanite libertarian? What are your views in state ownership of utilities eg rail/ energy etc?
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DSilva
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(Original post by HighOnGoofballs)
No, you aren't, because your local health center makes up 0.01% of the NHS, so he cannot say - the NHS is underfunded, which is what he was trying to say. Rather, he can say, my local health center needs more funding, which, would be perfectly valid. It comes back to my analogy - just because I'm cold doesn't mean global warming doesn't exist.
Using manipulated or selective stats is useless though, as they normally are.
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Davij038
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Oh I also found it funny on the show when Chris Keslie began attacking Chakrabarti for being bribed into a cover up. I think that the anti Semitism affair in the Labour Party is a witch hunt but the chakrabarti peerage is a scandal. I bloody detest that woman too.
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HighOnGoofballs
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(Original post by DSilva)
Using manipulated or selective stats is useless though, as they normally are.
Well then discredit or call them out. Don't use anecdotal evidence because that's just as bad.
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