rose.obrien
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How much will getting through to the finals of the Oxford Schools’ Debating Comp help my personal statement (for law)?

I know it’s a prestigious comp, so I’m hoping it’ll make me stand out
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Interrobang
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(Original post by rose.obrien)
How much will getting through to the finals of the Oxford Schools’ Debating Comp help my personal statement (for law)?

I know it’s a prestigious comp, so I’m hoping it’ll make me stand out
I've moved your thread to the Law forum where you're more likely to get an answer
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J Papi
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Meh, it's a solid achievement, but few universities will ever care about your PS in general. For the ones that do, it's best if you build up a track record of sort.

When you mention anything in your PS, you have to draw it back to the study of law and how it makes you a better candidate for that purpose.
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rose.obrien
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(Original post by JohanGRK)
Meh, it's a solid achievement, but few universities will ever care about your PS in general. For the ones that do, it's best if you build up a track record of sort.

When you mention anything in your PS, you have to draw it back to the study of law and how it makes you a better candidate for that purpose.
Ahh that’s annoying.
do you know any good unis (in England ) which place emphasis on/look at your PS? Or any unis there are which tend to have a more holistic view/put less emphasis on GCSEs?
Official university sites tend to be a bit vague :/
Thank you
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J Papi
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(Original post by rose.obrien)
Ahh that’s annoying.
do you know any good unis (in England ) which place emphasis on/look at your PS? Or any unis there are which tend to have a more holistic view/put less emphasis on GCSEs?
Official university sites tend to be a bit vague :/
Thank you
Re: personal statement

The main two are Cambridge (as long as it's a supercurricular, not some random hobby that you used to fill up the 4000 characters) and LSE.

Oxford do read the P.S. and put a score to it, but I'm not sure as to how much it matters at the end of the day. Probably a question for their TSR representative...

Beyond that point it's much of a muchness - universities like UCL and Durham and King's say - in their official capacity - that they read the P.S., but we can't know how much weight they put on it. UCL used to do a list where it would attach scores to each part of your application and rank you against the other candidates, but the person from which I got this information stopped working there in 2015, so I don't know if they've kept the same practice since.

Btw you definitely shouldn't be put off from putting this achievement in your P.S. - there's a lot that you can draw out of it! Also, the universities that won't particularly care about it will tend to be universities that either assess you through additional means (LNAT, interview), or universities that can't afford to be selective in the first place. The point I'm trying to make is that this can only help your application.

Re: GCSEs

The obvious candidate is Cambridge, but it's still super-selective - while it will take applicants with no A*s or a handful of A*s, its median was close to 8A*s under the old system. I'm waiting for more up-to-date info on this front.

You need an insurance, so you should probably apply to at least one of the RGs that give out an exceptionally high proportion of offers - so, Exeter's LLB, Warwick's Law with a Year Abroad courses, that sort of thing.
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rose.obrien
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(Original post by JohanGRK)
Re: personal statement

The main two are Cambridge (as long as it's a supercurricular, not some random hobby that you used to fill up the 4000 characters) and LSE.

Oxford do read the P.S. and put a score to it, but I'm not sure as to how much it matters at the end of the day. Probably a question for their TSR representative...

Beyond that point it's much of a muchness - universities like UCL and Durham and King's say - in their official capacity - that they read the P.S., but we can't know how much weight they put on it. UCL used to do a list where it would attach scores to each part of your application and rank you against the other candidates, but the person from which I got this information stopped working there in 2015, so I don't know if they've kept the same practice since.

Btw you definitely shouldn't be put off from putting this achievement in your P.S. - there's a lot that you can draw out of it! Also, the universities that won't particularly care about it will tend to be universities that either assess you through additional means (LNAT, interview), or universities that can't afford to be selective in the first place. The point I'm trying to make is that this can only help your application.

Re: GCSEs

The obvious candidate is Cambridge, but it's still super-selective - while it will take applicants with no A*s or a handful of A*s, its median was close to 8A*s under the old system. I'm waiting for more up-to-date info on this front.

You need an insurance, so you should probably apply to at least one of the RGs that give out an exceptionally high proportion of offers - so, Exeter's LLB, Warwick's Law with a Year Abroad courses, that sort of thing.
Thank u! And dw, I plan on making my PS (and my application in general) as strong as possible

I plan on applying to Durham, so it’s good to know they at least read it haha

On the topic, Durham does seem to have a 64% offer rate (according to whichuni, which claims to get this info through UCAS)
This is quite high (compared to unis like LSE, which has a similar ranking) , which seems a bit off, as it is considered a prestigious and respected uni. Therefore I would’ve thought it would be harder to get into
On other websites it still seems to be in the 60s(%). Would this be a safe(ish) uni to apply to? Is it really not as hard as I thought getting in?

I was considering Southampton as my safe choice, but it seems to have a low ranking as well as not a high offer rate. I’ve visited and it is really nice tho-what do u think?

I’m considering applying to Cardiff as a backup in case I get lower grades and maybe Sheffield to ensure I get an offer (instead of , say, Exeter)

Also, what do u think about Kent and Lancaster for law? Cardiff hasn’t really clicked with me , so I’ve ventured outside of the Russel group to look for unis with lower offer rates
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Notoriety
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You have A*AA predictions and you're applying to only 1 A*AA uni, then 4 AAA-ABB unis. Bit of a waste.

Tbh, you'll be applying in several months' time. You needn't spend that much time thinking about where now; just do more research into these unis yourself. Then ask more questions.
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rose.obrien
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(Original post by Notoriety)
You have A*AA predictions and you're applying to only 1 A*AA uni, then 4 AAA-ABB unis. Bit of a waste.

Tbh, you'll be applying in several months' time. You needn't spend that much time thinking about where now; just do more research into these unis yourself. Then ask more questions.
True true
As for applying for less than I’m capable of, unis really don’t read into predicted grades much, as they aren’t reliable cause schools are bias
But yeah
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J Papi
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(Original post by rose.obrien)
Thank u! And dw, I plan on making my PS (and my application in general) as strong as possible

I plan on applying to Durham, so it’s good to know they at least read it haha

On the topic, Durham does seem to have a 64% offer rate (according to whichuni, which claims to get this info through UCAS)
This is quite high (compared to unis like LSE, which has a similar ranking) , which seems a bit off, as it is considered a prestigious and respected uni. Therefore I would’ve thought it would be harder to get into
On other websites it still seems to be in the 60s(%). Would this be a safe(ish) uni to apply to? Is it really not as hard as I thought getting in?

I was considering Southampton as my safe choice, but it seems to have a low ranking as well as not a high offer rate. I’ve visited and it is really nice tho-what do u think?

I’m considering applying to Cardiff as a backup in case I get lower grades and maybe Sheffield to ensure I get an offer (instead of , say, Exeter)

Also, what do u think about Kent and Lancaster for law? Cardiff hasn’t really clicked with me , so I’ve ventured outside of the Russel group to look for unis with lower offer rates
When you say 'lower' offer rates, do you mean 'higher' offer rates? I struggle to see why someone would deliberately make their lives more difficult.

If there's one thing applying for jobs taught me, it's that you should never sell yourself short. Better if you apply to 4 aspirational or ambitious choices with one near-guaranteed insurance than apply to a lot of unexceptional courses at the likes of Soton, Kent, Lancaster, etc. My suggestion would be that you take the applications process by the balls and apply to a combo that looks something like this: Cambridge-Durham-<two other good RGs>-Exeter. No need to go lower than that. In the worst case, you'll get 4 rejections and end up at Exeter. But at least you'll have taken a shot at the more selective RGs.

The 'how hard is it to get into Durham' issue is a qualitative matter. From what I've seen, their offerholders have high average grades and LNAT scores. My suspicion is that they hold you to a high standard, but, if you meet that standard, you're in. The three London universities, unlike Durham, can afford to reject people with top grades because of secondary issues like LNAT essay performance or personal statement, for the simple reason that they get more applications and only have to give out half the total number of offers (due to smaller intakes, higher yields, etc.).

I don't have any data on Durham because they don't like responding to my FOI requests. They're the only uni to have refused everything
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Notoriety
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Agreed with Padawan Johan.

And unis do read into predicted grades. Dunno where you got that line from, OP.
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rose.obrien
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(Original post by Notoriety)
Agreed with Padawan Johan.

And unis do read into predicted grades. Dunno where you got that line from, OP.
Unis recognise that it is no real indication of your future a level grades, and your GCSEs are actually a more telling factor. Hence the ALIS test
Predicted grades will be a consideration, I acknowledge that,
And I know the approach of different unis (of looking at applications) ranges
But overall they don’t really help that much..
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rose.obrien
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(Original post by JohanGRK)
When you say 'lower' offer rates, do you mean 'higher' offer rates? I struggle to see why someone would deliberately make their lives more difficult.

If there's one thing applying for jobs taught me, it's that you should never sell yourself short. Better if you apply to 4 aspirational or ambitious choices with one near-guaranteed insurance than apply to a lot of unexceptional courses at the likes of Soton, Kent, Lancaster, etc. My suggestion would be that you take the applications process by the balls and apply to a combo that looks something like this: Cambridge-Durham-<two other good RGs>-Exeter. No need to go lower than that. In the worst case, you'll get 4 rejections and end up at Exeter. But at least you'll have taken a shot at the more selective RGs.

The 'how hard is it to get into Durham' issue is a qualitative matter. From what I've seen, their offerholders have high average grades and LNAT scores. My suspicion is that they hold you to a high standard, but, if you meet that standard, you're in. The three London universities, unlike Durham, can afford to reject people with top grades because of secondary issues like LNAT essay performance or personal statement, for the simple reason that they get more applications and only have to give out half the total number of offers (due to smaller intakes, higher yields, etc.).

I don't have any data on Durham because they don't like responding to my FOI requests. They're the only uni to have refused everything
I’m planning on applying to Durham and Nottingham as my higher choices, a few more in the middle, and then only 1 lower offer uni such as Cardiff/Lancaster/Kent
Sorry for the confusion
Also I thought Lancaster and Kent were quite highly regarded (along with unis such as Manchester) for law? Ok they’re not Russell group, but aren’t they still respectable unis? They seem to rank well

Ur perception of Durham seems right tbh unfortunately
I just hope 5A*s 4As and 1B is enough

That’s annoying about data on Durham!
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Notoriety
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(Original post by rose.obrien)
Unis recognise that it is no real indication of your future a level grades, and your GCSEs are actually a more telling factor. Hence the ALIS test
Predicted grades will be a consideration, I acknowledge that,
And I know the approach of different unis (of looking at applications) ranges
But overall they don’t really help that much..
I suggest you try applying to LSE with AAB predictions and see how little LSE reads into your predictions. Predictions are a bit weak, but ultimately they're the main data that unis use in conjunction with the LNAT. GCSEs generally play the smallest role -- look at Bristol, 20% weighting to GCSEs and 40% weighting to A-Level predictions or achieved grades. The other 40% on the LNAT. Source: http://www.bristol.ac.uk/study/media...s/2019/law.pdf

Your speculation, perhaps informed by your dastardly teachers, is grossly unhelpful to other users who might come by this thread.
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J Papi
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(Original post by rose.obrien)
I’m planning on applying to Durham and Nottingham as my higher choices, a few more in the middle, and then only 1 lower offer uni such as Cardiff/Lancaster/Kent
Sorry for the confusion
Also I thought Lancaster and Kent were quite highly regarded (along with unis such as Manchester) for law? Ok they’re not Russell group, but aren’t they still respectable unis? They seem to rank well

Ur perception of Durham seems right tbh unfortunately
I just hope 5A*s 4As and 1B is enough

That’s annoying about data on Durham!
Depends on what you mean by 'highly regarded'. They're not particularly highly regarded by the students and faculty at 'better' universities. They're insurance choice material at best.

I'd suggest that you replace Cardiff/Lancaster/Kent with Exeter or Warwick.

Re: the predictions thing - the fact that you and I know that they're a terrible measure and highly susceptible to manipulation doesn't stop them from being one of the main data points a university relies on when giving out offers. Sadly, universities have few other things to go off.
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rose.obrien
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(Original post by JohanGRK)
Depends on what you mean by 'highly regarded'. They're not particularly highly regarded by the students and faculty at 'better' universities. They're insurance choice material at best.

I'd suggest that you replace Cardiff/Lancaster/Kent with Exeter or Warwick.

Re: the predictions thing - the fact that you and I know that they're a terrible measure and highly susceptible to manipulation doesn't stop them from being one of the main data points a university relies on when giving out offers. Sadly, universities have few other things to go off.
Okay thanks. Do u know any other alternative unis for Exeter/Warwick (law)?

That’s comforting, as my predicted grades are likely to be strong. I guess I have to look at different unis to see how the weightings differ tho

Anyway I’ll try to stop overthinking and try to do well in everything cause after all I have no control over the weightings
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J Papi
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(Original post by rose.obrien)
Okay thanks. Do u know any other alternative unis for Exeter/Warwick (law)?

That’s comforting, as my predicted grades are likely to be strong. I guess I have to look at different unis to see how the weightings differ tho

Anyway I’ll try to stop overthinking and try to do well in everything cause after all I have no control over the weightings
Which have a very high offer rate? Those two have among the highest (93% and 67% respectively).

The other strong RG courses I can think of are Bristol (49%) and Notts (57%). You're applying to Durham (64%) so we can count that in. The rest are in London :x

Below that, you have a lot of other decent courses like Manchester (68%), Birmingham (84%), Liverpool (95%!), Sheffield (88%), etc.. At that point, it's more of a matter of seeing which city/university you personally like.

I'm including the offer rates so that you can realise that the chances of you getting an offer from one of the good or decent regional RGs is actually quite high The only one to not give out more offers to more than one in two applicants is Bristol.

I'd chuck out an aspirational application to either Oxbridge or one of the top London unis just for the sake of it. You have nothing to lose.
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(Original post by JohanGRK)
Which have a very high offer rate? Those two have among the highest (93% and 67% respectively).

The other strong RG courses I can think of are Bristol (49%) and Notts (57%). You're applying to Durham (64%) so we can count that in. The rest are in London :x

Below that, you have a lot of other decent courses like Manchester (68%), Birmingham (84%), Liverpool (95%!), Sheffield (88%), etc.. At that point, it's more of a matter of seeing which city/university you personally like.

I'm including the offer rates so that you can realise that the chances of you getting an offer from one of the good or decent regional RGs is actually quite high The only one to not give out more offers to more than one in two applicants is Bristol.

I'd chuck out an aspirational application to either Oxbridge or one of the top London unis just for the sake of it. You have nothing to lose.
notts is not above us tyvm.

They don't even have a victoria's secret, I ran as fast as my legs would carry me.
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(Original post by rose.obrien)
True true
As for applying for less than I’m capable of, unis really don’t read into predicted grades much, as they aren’t reliable cause schools are bias
But yeah
Unless you are applying to Cambridge or Oxford you don't need to have decided on *any* of your other choices until January next year. You only need to apply to Oxbridge by the 15th October, all the rest can be added as and when you like afterwards.

There's no rush. Focus on your studies for now.



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J Papi
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(Original post by Lady Jamie)
notts is not above us tyvm.
sh*t, didn't mean to get involved in some rivalry (i can tell from the full stop that you're not happy)

:fight:
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(Original post by JohanGRK)
sh*t, didn't mean to get involved in some rivalry (i can tell from the bullet point that you're not happy)

:fight:
ucl > lse :flute:
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