Labour announce backing for a second Brexit referendum Watch

adamdrummond
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I read on a plane that Amber Rudd and a couple others are gonna force a delay somehow...
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Rakas21
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#82
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(Original post by Davij038)
I think (and sincerely hope) we are witnessing the end of SNP dominance, they reached their heyday in 2015 and I don’t think they’ll make that again. Alex Salmod’s been MeToo’d and they’re just an awful horrible party. Corbyn’s labour are going to take back a good number of seats from
Them, so long as they don’t get people like Jim Murphy to stand.
Most SNP seats that can be won actually have a Tory close behind so predictions of Labour retaking Scotland may be premature.

FPTP can only really cope with 2.5 party systems in the long run hence it may be more probable that we end up with a 40-40-20 snp-tory-lab split.

Latest Welsh poll also suggests a 13% drop in vote share for Labour since 2017.
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Fredtheb
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#83
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#83
Labour is full of anti brexit, eu worshipping, magic money ideologists. End of my contribution
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craftywizardboy
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#84
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(Original post by SMEGGGY)
No no no! The decision was made, respect it ffs
You're missing the point. People are allowed to change their minds. What about all the 16-year-olds like myself who couldn't vote at the time? Have we no say? All the old people who voted for Brexit voted on a lie. Where is the 350mill we were promised for the NHS. Democracy means that we can change our minds about decisions. We don't live in a totalitarian society.
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Fredtheb
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#85
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omg are you being serious. People always argue that people solely voted for brexit on lies. what a load of tripe. The old people lived through the EU, they know exactly how it has turned out to be something we didnt vote to join in 1975! we voted to join a common market, not a bearocratic undemocratic, corrupt system. Im sorry but I am ashamed to live in a generation of teenagers at this point in the 21st century. Stop thinking that the EU is a godsend and that it will do good for this country; yes we need to agree on a deal, so we do remain in the common market we voted for in 1975, but we need to be out of the stupid customs union, and most of all, need to be away from Donald tusk and junker.
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craftywizardboy
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#86
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Completely disagree with you. Did you know that with a no deal Britain's economy is going to decrease by 9%. Plus all the companies including financial services, international banks, companies and manufacturers have already begun packing up. Do you really think we're gonna be better off with a sh*t deal? Not really. That customs union you're talking about means that we don't need to pay stupid tariffs that's gonna cost billions of pounds. Plus, if we leave without a deal, we're not going to get fresh produce, skilled EU migrant workers, ERASMUS scheme will be in jeopardy, not accessing the galileo satellite programme (and we won't see that 1 billion pound investment we made) the list is endless. The negatives of being in the EU dont outweigh the benefits. Did it really affect your life before? Im probably sure you weren't complaining before then.
Last edited by craftywizardboy; 3 weeks ago
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Fredtheb
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#87
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Well, you’re argument that we’re not going to be able to get workers from Europe. Ballocks. My mum, who is polish and voted brexit, came in 1989, BEFORE free movement of labour. Secondly, I personally don’t agree with a no deal brexit, I believe we should have a deal with the European Union, but not one where we are tied to the customs union. China, India, many southern African counties are all seeing rapidly growing economies, where if uk businesses start investing there, we will get huge returns. The Eu is finished, the European has a very slow growing economy. When we leave, we will have Tarrif free trade with the rest of the world and access to these faster growing economies
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Quixote.
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#88
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First one was a farce, likewise everything that's followed. The only reason that certain people would be against a second vote is because, second-time around, Remain would likely win. If over 50% want to remain now, given the lies and the absolute shambles of the negotiations, then it should be scrapped. The idea that it would make a mockery of democracy is the worst argument ever... such a narrow victory for such an important decision should never have been taken seriously anyway, unless there was a 100% turnout.
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Fredtheb
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(Original post by Quixote.)
First one was a farce, likewise everything that's followed. The only reason that certain people would be against a second vote is because, second-time around, Remain would likely win. If over 50% want to remain now, given the lies and the absolute shambles of the negotiations, then it should be scrapped. The idea that it would make a mockery of democracy is the worst argument ever... such a narrow victory for such an important decision should never have been taken seriously anyway, unless there was a 100% turnout.
And then we just stay as the Eu starts it’s Eu army, continued dictatorship, live through it as it collapeses🙏 praise be to god
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craftywizardboy
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#90
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To be fair, you make a valid point on the EU economy. However, lets hope we do get a good deal through and pray for the best.
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Fredtheb
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(Original post by craftywizardboy)
To be fair, you make a valid point on the EU economy. However, lets hope we do get a good deal through and pray for the best.
Exactly, unfortunately, Saint Teresa has no back bone whatsoever and we are stuck with her deal for the foreseeable future :/
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Davij038
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#92
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(Original post by Rakas21)
Most SNP seats that can be won actually have a Tory close behind so predictions of Labour retaking Scotland may be premature.

FPTP can only really cope with 2.5 party systems in the long run hence it may be more probable that we end up with a 40-40-20 snp-tory-lab split.

Latest Welsh poll also suggests a 13% drop in vote share for Labour since 2017.
I’d imagine a significant number of SNP votes would go to labour obv. The Tories are doing well up there, but not THAT well. I’d be willing to bet money that labour will be the biggest party whenever the next election is as things stand now.

Things are indeed dire for labour in Wales.

FPTP will of course only allow for few parties in the long term, but we are very much in the short term during a period of turmoil and uncertainty. Labour and the Tories are starting to fragment and we may start to see long term electoral pacts which may make smaller parties competitive.
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paul514
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#93
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(Original post by craftywizardboy)
You're missing the point. People are allowed to change their minds. What about all the 16-year-olds like myself who couldn't vote at the time? Have we no say? All the old people who voted for Brexit voted on a lie. Where is the 350mill we were promised for the NHS. Democracy means that we can change our minds about decisions. We don't live in a totalitarian society.
You are right....

Once we get what we have voted for.

I don't think you should have to wait forty odd years like the losers did last time but the vote should be enacted and you guys if you still wish can campaign to rejoin.
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paul514
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#94
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(Original post by craftywizardboy)
Completely disagree with you. Did you know that with a no deal Britain's economy is going to decrease by 9%. Plus all the companies including financial services, international banks, companies and manufacturers have already begun packing up. Do you really think we're gonna be better off with a sh*t deal? Not really. That customs union you're talking about means that we don't need to pay stupid tariffs that's gonna cost billions of pounds. Plus, if we leave without a deal, we're not going to get fresh produce, skilled EU migrant workers, ERASMUS scheme will be in jeopardy, not accessing the galileo satellite programme (and we won't see that 1 billion pound investment we made) the list is endless. The negatives of being in the EU dont outweigh the benefits. Did it really affect your life before? Im probably sure you weren't complaining before then.
Ok hold my coat.

That 9% is smaller than what they otherwise predict the size of the economy to be in 2030 it is not 9% smaller than now.

Secondly they can’t forecast a year ahead never mind 12 years ahead.

It only measures GDP not GDP per capita roughly 3% of that ‘loss’ is less migrants and therefore less people to share growth with.

But most importantly of all it assumes nothing changes. No changes in tax, spending, regulations, trade deals, innovation, productively or government investment.

It’s the stupidest set of numbers that one could produce.

London’s financial sector is of a similar size to New York’s the idea that these people all pack up and leave is laughable, they will simply open sub offices where needed to channel business through to avoid either regulations or tax.

6% of uk business export to the Eu almost entirely large business’.

As for tariffs that is in our own gift we can chose whatever levels deem fit on imports.
On exports most of the tariffs are out weighed by currency changes such as the cheap pound for the last TEN years.

Erasmus is irrelevant but even that has sod all to do with the EU as I understand it.

If migrants from the EU meet whatever standards WE set then they can still come.

Fresh produce 😂you will believe anything, we buy fresh produce from third countries in different continents, quite why you think we can’t buy them from 500 miles away I’m baffled.

Turn on your critical thinking before posting such rubbish.
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Libtardian
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#95
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#95
Traitors.
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TensorTympani
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#96
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#96
Having a second referendum would take a few months to arrange.
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Andrew97
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#97
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Might not make that much of a difference. The labour rebels could outnumber the Conservative ones
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nulli tertius
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#98
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(Original post by Andrew97)
Might not make that much of a difference. The labour rebels could outnumber the Conservative ones
As I have posted in other threads, a referendum needs government support because only the Crown can ask Parliament to spend money and a referendum has administrative costs. If the government backs a referendum, it will pass Parliament easily.
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Rakas21
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(Original post by Davij038)
I’d imagine a significant number of SNP votes would go to labour obv. The Tories are doing well up there, but not THAT well. I’d be willing to bet money that labour will be the biggest party whenever the next election is as things stand now.

Things are indeed dire for labour in Wales.

FPTP will of course only allow for few parties in the long term, but we are very much in the short term during a period of turmoil and uncertainty. Labour and the Tories are starting to fragment and we may start to see long term electoral pacts which may make smaller parties competitive.
There's no way that there will be a 6% swing from SNP to Lab (required for Lab to be largest party) given that the 2017 result was from their high base unless there's something truly big.

I was mainly talking of the long run in Scotland. Multiple surveys from the likes of the British Election Study and others have shown that Scotland is not really any more left wing than England, like Wales it's political parties did not historically match. So long as they don't betray Brexit the Tories should keep their broad UK strength in polling and be able to build on that more locally. By virtue of the fact that the SNP have replaced Lab in Scotland (i don't see the reason there would be a mass SNP-Lab shift) and the Tories are the only Leave, Unionist, Right party there is plenty of polling evidence to suggest that on all three of the issues they can push their vote share with the right approach (Davidson's Norway approach is actually arguably a better sell to waverers).
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Gossamer
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#100
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I think that is the best decission because many people in Uk need a second referendum.
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