FutureDoc01
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https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/uni...medical-school
Applying to medical school can be stressful. As someone who has done this and been successful I've decided to write the above article to help others in their quest. Read and let me know what you think. Have I missed anything etc or general talk and questions about the application?
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FutureDoc01
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Also share with friends who are in the same boat as you
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notdyls
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From reading your article, and seeing other people in my year, it's clear that it's very hard to get onto a medicine course. Why do you think that is? There's already a shortage of people in the profession, and I don't think this is helping.
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FutureDoc01
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(Original post by notdyls)
From reading your article, and seeing other people in my year, it's clear that it's very hard to get onto a medicine course. Why do you think that is? There's already a shortage of people in the profession, and I don't think this is helping.
Its hard for a few reasons. First of all due to the high competitiveness as there are so many people wishing to become doctors. Training doctors is very expensive so I could speculate that to be a reason why theyre arernt that many places
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notdyls
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(Original post by FutureDoc01)
Its hard for a few reasons. First of all due to the high competitiveness as there are so many people wishing to become doctors. Training doctors is very expensive so I could speculate that to be a reason why theyre arernt that many places
Ignoring the costs of training, do you think there are enough people wanting to get into the medical field to reduce the shortage of staff in the NHS?
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Eggyolk
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(Original post by notdyls)
Ignoring the costs of training, do you think there are enough people wanting to get into the medical field to reduce the shortage of staff in the NHS?
Definitely.
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sotor
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(Original post by notdyls)
Ignoring the costs of training, do you think there are enough people wanting to get into the medical field to reduce the shortage of staff in the NHS?
the NHS set quotas on the number of people allowed to be admitted onto a medicine course each year. they also cap international students. the NHS pays for all post graduate training and contributes to the 4th and 5th year costs (5th/6th for a 6 year course).

im sure there are plenty willing to enter the field. i think there still needs to be a certain threshold to ensure competent and motivated doctors. a bigger problem in healthcare is the number of doctors who emigrate or leave the profession after the NHS has paid for and completed their training. this also affects the shortage of staff as highly trained professionals are leaving, and to replace them the NHS must put more money into training more, who will take a while to be qualified.
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FutureDoc01
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(Original post by notdyls)
Ignoring the costs of training, do you think there are enough people wanting to get into the medical field to reduce the shortage of staff in the NHS?
Yes ofcourse. But as you can understand with the nature of the NHS uni's need to be even stricter in who they take on. Ocourse this means good candidates dont get in
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notdyls
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(Original post by Eggyolk)
Definitely.
(Original post by sotor)
the NHS set quotas on the number of people allowed to be admitted onto a medicine course each year. they also cap international students. the NHS pays for all post graduate training and contributes to the 4th and 5th year costs (5th/6th for a 6 year course).

im sure there are plenty willing to enter the field. i think there still needs to be a certain threshold to ensure competent and motivated doctors. a bigger problem in healthcare is the number of doctors who emigrate or leave the profession after the NHS has paid for and completed their training. this also affects the shortage of staff as highly trained professionals are leaving, and to replace them the NHS must put more money into training more, who will take a while to be qualified.
Personally, I’m sceptical, although I also admit I don’t know everything. The entrance exams and interviews, when other STEM subjects do not have them or are not as difficult, can make other options appear to be a better proposition. I do agree that there is an issue with graduates emigrating or switching professions, what do you think would be the best way to address that though?
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sotor
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(Original post by notdyls)
Personally, I’m sceptical, although I also admit I don’t know everything. The entrance exams and interviews, when other STEM subjects do not have them or are not as difficult, can make other options appear to be a better proposition. I do agree that there is an issue with graduates emigrating or switching professions, what do you think would be the best way to address that though?
the competition ratio at BSMS, a great but not top top medical school is 14 to 1 (applicants vs offer). Oxford is 10.5:1 and gets fewer applicants than many other medical schools because of how grueling the application process is. 20,000 odd people apply every year.

best way to stop people leaving - treat them better at work. let them work better hours and not to the bone, hire more doctors (even if they have to be international) and relax the strict quotas to get more doctors. hire more nurses - they're indispensable. with more doctors, hospitals will do better and provide a better service (hitting targets like the 4 hour A&E) and therefore there will be a better relationship between doctors and the trust management. less pressure from management = happier staff.
pay doctors what theyre worth (aka more) and let them go home on time. fairer system for taking holidays.
better support for mental health and make getting help after traumatising cases much more open (adam kay, author, left the profession after a traumatising case and didnt get any help for it within work. whether he would have stayed regardless is debatable but the fact is he wasnt offered help).

tl;dr: the NHS needs improvement, streamlining, more money (less middle management IMO), less beaurocracy
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FutureDoc01
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(Original post by notdyls)
Personally, I’m sceptical, although I also admit I don’t know everything. The entrance exams and interviews, when other STEM subjects do not have them or are not as difficult, can make other options appear to be a better proposition. I do agree that there is an issue with graduates emigrating or switching professions, what do you think would be the best way to address that though?
I disagree. Interview processes are essential for medicine courses. Not just any individual has the drive to study medicine, has what it takes and is suitable for medicine so I believe interview processes are necessary. Everyone knows someone applying to med/dentistry who without sounding harsh has no business being a doctor or dentist due to motivations/character.
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FutureDoc01
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(Original post by sotor)
the competition ratio at BSMS, a great but not top top medical school is 14 to 1 (applicants vs offer). Oxford is 10.5:1 and gets fewer applicants than many other medical schools because of how grueling the application process is. 20,000 odd people apply every year.

best way to stop people leaving - treat them better at work. let them work better hours and not to the bone, hire more doctors (even if they have to be international) and relax the strict quotas to get more doctors. hire more nurses - they're indispensable. with more doctors, hospitals will do better and provide a better service (hitting targets like the 4 hour A&E) and therefore there will be a better relationship between doctors and the trust management. less pressure from management = happier staff.
pay doctors what theyre worth (aka more) and let them go home on time. fairer system for taking holidays.
better support for mental health and make getting help after traumatising cases much more open (adam kay, author, left the profession after a traumatising case and didnt get any help for it within work. whether he would have stayed regardless is debatable but the fact is he wasnt offered help).

tl;dr: the NHS needs improvement, streamlining, more money (less middle management IMO), less beaurocracy
We can agree that the nhs needs improvement and more funding. But the nhs actually getting this funding that it needs is another story altogether
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notdyls
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(Original post by FutureDoc01)
I disagree. Interview processes are essential for medicine courses. Not just any individual has the drive to study medicine, has what it takes and is suitable for medicine so I believe interview processes are necessary. Everyone knows someone applying to med/dentistry who without sounding harsh has no business being a doctor or dentist due to motivations/character.
If we can't solve the issue by increasing the supply of staff then, how would you suggest reducing the shortage in the NHS, bearing in mind that money in the NHS is already tight?
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nexttime
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(Original post by notdyls)
Personally, I’m sceptical, although I also admit I don’t know everything. The entrance exams and interviews, when other STEM subjects do not have them or are not as difficult, can make other options appear to be a better proposition
There's literally ~3 applicants per place as things are, and that's with people knowing how competitive it is. If you relaxed work experience requirements and maybe made entry grades ABB (like things were not even that long ago) you would probably be able to fill existing places 5, 6+ times over!
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sotor
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(Original post by notdyls)
If we can't solve the issue by increasing the supply of staff then, how would you suggest reducing the shortage in the NHS, bearing in mind that money in the NHS is already tight?
one thing that's being pushed quite a lot is going to your pharmacist for help instead of your GP or walk in centre

i think they need to remove any private firms involved in NHS hospitals that are profit driven (virgin health care etc) and take everything in house. stop privatisation in general - america spends more federally as a % of their gdp than any other nation despite not providing free health care because private health care providers don't have the buying power to lower prices in the supply chain than someone who represents everyone in the country.

focus on public health - we need clear focussed campaigns on how to live a healthy lifestyle tailored to people who are mostly sedentary because the fact is that obesity is a big drain on health care resources in later life and a lot of people don't understand enough about nutrition to actually give their body what it needs and not more than it burns in a day (simply put). we need to teach kids about nutrition in a careful way to set them up for life (like they do in france - 2nd lowest rate of heart disease in the world)

(my opinions)
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notdyls
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(Original post by sotor)
one thing that's being pushed quite a lot is going to your pharmacist for help instead of your GP or walk in centre

i think they need to remove any private firms involved in NHS hospitals that are profit driven (virgin health care etc) and take everything in house. stop privatisation in general - america spends more federally as a % of their gdp than any other nation despite not providing free health care because private health care providers don't have the buying power to lower prices in the supply chain than someone who represents everyone in the country.

focus on public health - we need clear focussed campaigns on how to live a healthy lifestyle tailored to people who are mostly sedentary because the fact is that obesity is a big drain on health care resources in later life and a lot of people don't understand enough about nutrition to actually give their body what it needs and not more than it burns in a day (simply put). we need to teach kids about nutrition in a careful way to set them up for life (like they do in france - 2nd lowest rate of heart disease in the world)

(my opinions)
I agree with your general sentiment. One thing though, do you feel that sending people to pharmacists instead of to an actual doctor is sort of irresponsible, given that they do not have as much training? I can understand why they are doing it though.
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sotor
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(Original post by notdyls)
I agree with your general sentiment. One thing though, do you feel that sending people to pharmacists instead of to an actual doctor is sort of irresponsible, given that they do not have as much training? I can understand why they are doing it though.
i think if it's done carefully its good
if you have a cold or something equally minor then im sure they can give you great advice on what to do
i think pushing the idea of calling 111 for advice is more important, as id hope they could advise people better on where to go for help than a pharmacist who has different training

its all very complicated and there's not really one solution!
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notdyls
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(Original post by sotor)
i think if it's done carefully its good
if you have a cold or something equally minor then im sure they can give you great advice on what to do
i think pushing the idea of calling 111 for advice is more important, as id hope they could advise people better on where to go for help than a pharmacist who has different training

its all very complicated and there's not really one solution!
111 is a good point, and I’ve seen that it’s being promoted quite a lot. I don’t know the differences in their training, but if they are better suited for the situation, then it makes sense why it’s being pushed forward.
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FutureDoc01
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(Original post by nexttime)
There's literally ~3 applicants per place as things are, and that's with people knowing how competitive it is. If you relaxed work experience requirements and maybe made entry grades ABB (like things were not even that long ago) you would probably be able to fill existing places 5, 6+ times over!
But on a course such as medicine which is so gruelling,do you think entry requirements should really by relaxed
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FutureDoc01
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(Original post by notdyls)
I agree with your general sentiment. One thing though, do you feel that sending people to pharmacists instead of to an actual doctor is sort of irresponsible, given that they do not have as much training? I can understand why they are doing it though.
In many instances when people go to their GP things are minor so this would be good as pharmacists could then refer on more serious issues which require further exploration to the GP
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