University of Sheffield or University of Leeds for Law? Watch

anon5252
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So, I currently live in Leeds, but I got an offer from the University of Leeds. The open day for the University of Leeds was really interesting. However, I am bored of staying in Leeds and I want a different change. I think that the Law course at Leeds is really good. If I firmed the University of Leeds, I would not move out. I was slightly disappointed by the University of Sheffield open day, but I really liked the city of Sheffield. I am also very sensitive to noise and I know that halls can be noisy. I find it hard to sleep at home, so I know it will be more of a struggle if I moved out and went to Sheffield. I also do not drink and I am not into clubbing. I have been thinking about them both, but I am not sure which one I should go for? I like that there is a more variety of choice of modules at the University of Sheffield.
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Notoriety
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It is intensely personal to you and your situation. I'd probably look further afield than Sheffield -- not sure what other offers you hold. I don't think a recruiter will care Sheff v Lee, but there's certainly a difference in the calibre of student at each. Leeds is a solidly AAA school; Sheffield is not really close.

But you shouldn't overlook your enjoyment of Sheffield as a city and all the rest of it. If you wanna go to Sheffield, I cannot see a reason why you shouldn't.
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anon5252
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(Original post by Notoriety)
It is intensely personal to you and your situation. I'd probably look further afield than Sheffield -- not sure what other offers you hold. I don't think a recruiter will care Sheff v Lee, but there's certainly a difference in the calibre of student at each. Leeds is a solidly AAA school; Sheffield is not really close.

But you shouldn't overlook your enjoyment of Sheffield as a city and all the rest of it. If you wanna go to Sheffield, I cannot see a reason why you shouldn't.
Hi,

Thanks for your reply, it's interesting that you say that, as the University of Sheffield wants me to achieve AAA, but I can get an alternative offer (AAB) to confirm my offer at the University of Leeds. What makes you say that Sheffield is not close? Leeds seemed more stricter on obtaining the grades compared to Sheffield. The staff mentioned that this year been really competitive year for offers. However when I asked about not getting the grades for for the Law course, she said that the uni is not lenient when it comes to missed offers. I liked the lecture at the University of Leeds, it made me think and had elements of Philosophy in it. I have also got an offer from Newcastle University, but I have not seen Newcastle yet, but I do plan on visiting Newcastle.
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Notoriety
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(Original post by anon5252)
Hi,

Thanks for your reply, it's interesting that you say that, as the University of Sheffield wants me to achieve AAA, but I can get an alternative offer (AAB) to confirm my offer at the University of Leeds. Although, I do understand your point. Leeds seemed more stricter on obtaining the grades compared to Sheffield. The staff mentioned that this year been really competitive year for offers. However when I asked someone from recruitment about Sheffield and missed grades, she said that Sheffield are not lenient for missed grades and that the course is oversubscribed this year. I liked the lecture at the University of Leeds, it made me think and had elements of Philosophy in it. I have also got an offer from Newcastle University, but I have not seen Newcastle yet, but I do plan on visiting Newcastle.
The commonest grades at Sheffield are BBB. https://university.which.co.uk/unive...9-c6cae6bc0e67

At Leeds it's AAA. https://university.which.co.uk/unive...9-a64150681c4e

The person you talked to is lying to you or just wrong; or by some miracle Sheffield has bumped itself up to an AAA course in the space of a year.

The perennial piece of advice I am seemingly repeatedly giving is that the grades the uni days it requires are very rarely the grades they actually require. A few exceptions to this, but it's generally the case.
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anon5252
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(Original post by Notoriety)
The commonest grades at Sheffield are BBB. https://university.which.co.uk/unive...9-c6cae6bc0e67

At Leeds it's AAA. https://university.which.co.uk/unive...9-a64150681c4e

The person you talked to is lying to you or just wrong; or by some miracle Sheffield has bumped itself up to an AAA course in the space of a year.

The perennial piece of advice I am seemingly repeatedly giving is that the grades the uni days it requires are very rarely the grades they actually require. A few exceptions to this, but it's generally the case.
Thank you very much for this information, I will take all of this into consideration.
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hau28
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Leeds is better and you will stand a better chance of getting a training contract with a major firm, with a Leeds Law degree. But Sheffield is still a decent choice if you must go there.
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Mosi1234$
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I am in my second year of law school. I went to The University of Sheffield and just got a 2021 training contract with DLA Piper. I was offered a place at The University of Manchester, Leeds & Sheffield but accepted Sheffield instead. Just goes to show that Sheffield is just as good as any other Russell group university.
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hau28
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Well done!
(Original post by Mosi1234$)
I am in my second year of law school. I went to The University of Sheffield and just got a 2021 training contract with DLA Piper. I was offered a place at The University of Manchester, Leeds & Sheffield but accepted Sheffield instead. Just goes to show that Sheffield is just as good as any other Russell group university.
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Notoriety
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(Original post by Mosi1234$)
I am in my second year of law school. I went to The University of Sheffield and just got a 2021 training contract with DLA Piper. I was offered a place at The University of Manchester, Leeds & Sheffield but accepted Sheffield instead. Just goes to show that Sheffield is just as good as any other Russell group university.
Because you decided to go there rather than Manc or Leeds?
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Oxford Mum
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I cannot vouch for the law school, but I work in Sheffield and I can honestly say the people are some of the nicest in the world.

I have said this on other threads, and once I got a PM at 2am from a fellow Sheffielder, agreeing with me!

A couple of really nice brand new halls of residence being built now, as well, for Sept 2019. And they are right on Ecclesall Road, where the action is. Lots of nice shops and pubs/restaurants there, if clubs are not your thing. And a very lively union, a beautiful 1930s cinema, with niche films, lovely botanic gardens and peak district just a bus/train ride away.
(Original post by anon5252)
So, I currently live in Leeds, but I got an offer from the University of Leeds. The open day for the University of Leeds was really interesting. However, I am bored of staying in Leeds and I want a different change. I think that the Law course at Leeds is really good. If I firmed the University of Leeds, I would not move out. I was slightly disappointed by the University of Sheffield open day, but I really liked the city of Sheffield. I am also very sensitive to noise and I know that halls can be noisy. I find it hard to sleep at home, so I know it will be more of a struggle if I moved out and went to Sheffield. I also do not drink and I am not into clubbing. I have been thinking about them both, but I am not sure which one I should go for? I like that there is a more variety of choice of modules at the University of Sheffield.
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JohanGRK
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(Original post by Mosi1234$)
I am in my second year of law school. I went to The University of Sheffield and just got a 2021 training contract with DLA Piper. I was offered a place at The University of Manchester, Leeds & Sheffield but accepted Sheffield instead. Just goes to show that Sheffield is just as good as any other Russell group university.
This post doesn't prove ****, adds nothing to the conversation, and is a rather poor way of gloating about you getting a TC

Just like your other posts, really

(Original post by hau28)
Leeds is better and you will stand a better chance of getting a training contract with a major firm, with a Leeds Law degree.
citation needed, as usual
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MidgetFever
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You're probably better off going to Leeds for the quality of course, if that's your most important factor.

That being said though, I study at Sheff and I haven't had any problems with the place so far. The content is still challenging and the city is wonderful.

Either would be a decent choice though by the sounds of it.
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hau28
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https://www.chambersstudent.co.uk/wh...d-universities

This data is not to be interpreted as the average applicant having BBB, as that seems unlikely, but more so that Bs are more frequently occurring:

'Most popular A Levels (and grade achieved)' at Sheffield: https://university.which.co.uk/unive...9-c6cae6bc0e67
At Leeds: https://university.which.co.uk/unive...0-a64150681c4e


(Original post by JohanGRK)
This post doesn't prove ****, adds nothing to the conversation, and is a rather poor way of gloating about you getting a TC

Just like your other posts, really


citation needed, as usual
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hau28
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how does OP's post add nothing to the conversation that OP started? They provided a pretty relevant update imo.
(Original post by JohanGRK)
This post doesn't prove ****, adds nothing to the conversation, and is a rather poor way of gloating about you getting a TC

Just like your other posts, really


citation needed, as usual
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Notoriety
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Chambers looks at people who studied any degree at a particular uni, rather than those with a law degree specifically. We don't know how many people applied from a particular, as to know the success rate. Also TC success is chiefly down to the individual applicant's characteristics and not the name/standing of the uni.

Chambers should not be relied upon.

(Original post by hau28)
how does OP's post add nothing to the conversation that OP started? They provided a pretty relevant update imo.
No one doubts that you can get a TC from Sheffield. And we don't know how prudent their decision to choose Sheffield was, or what caused the decision to go there. It really is adding nothing to the discussion, other than gratuitously sharing the person's life story.
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hau28
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How does that negate the fact that Leeds is preferred over Sheffield? Both unis offer the same types of courses, and yet Leeds is clearly more represented. Both unis also have similar numbers of students, so it's pedantic to do hypotheticals over who has applied where, as though there wouldn't be the similar proportions of people applying. But again, this is not solely down to the University, as the other two sources show, A grades seem to be more frequently occurring among Leeds students than Sheffield students, which also factors into their respective representation.

The OPs question was which University would be more likely to get them a training contract, with the general consensus being Leeds. OP's update that they got a training contract while at Sheffield was indeed a relevant response to the idea that attending Sheffield would hinder their career progression. And as said before, University representation is largely determined by the A levels achieved that influence the Uni you go to, rather than solely just the reputation of the University. I'm sure A*AA at Newcastle would fair better than AAB at UCL (all else being equal), it's just that that scenario is less likely to happen.
(Original post by Notoriety)
Chambers looks at people who studied any degree at a particular uni, rather than those with a law degree specifically. We don't know how many people applied from a particular, as to know the success rate. Also TC success is chiefly down to the individual applicant's characteristics and not the name/standing of the uni.

Chambers should not be relied upon.



No one doubts that you can get a TC from Sheffield. And we don't know how prudent their decision to choose Sheffield was, or what caused the decision to go there. It really is adding nothing to the discussion, other than gratuitously sharing the person's life story.
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Notoriety
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(Original post by hau28)
How does that negate the fact that Leeds is preferred over Sheffield? Both unis offer the same types of courses, and yet Leeds is clearly more represented. Both unis also have similar numbers of students, so it's pedantic to do hypotheticals over who has applied where, as though there wouldn't be the similar proportions of people applying. But again, this is not solely down to the University, as the other two sources show, A grades seem to be more frequently occurring among Leeds students than Sheffield students, which also factors into their respective representation.
It is not a fact. The fact is that Leeds is more represented; that does not mean it's preferred. Leeds has approx 5k more students, it likely has more students who are AAB+ and meet firms' A-Level requirements. So it does not follow that a similar proportion would apply to the firms listed in Chambers, such that Leeds must be preferred.

Chambers has been debunked countless times on this forum. Have a look at some other threads.
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JohanGRK
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There's no definite list of what counts as a 'City firm' (does e.g. DWF count? Memery?), nor is there a description of the distribution of Leeds and Sheffield graduates among these firms. I'd be more impressed by a uni that consistently sees its grads going into MC firms than a uni that's a feeder for, say, DLA Piper or another regional shop.

More to the point, you're not controlling for other factors that may have led to Leeds having a much better representation among City firms. More importantly, your claim was that going to Leeds will give OP a "better chance" of getting into a major firm (whatever that is), so the burden is on you to show how. Does Leeds get more brand ambassador positions than Sheffield? Does it get more networking dinners? Does it get exclusive office visits or open days? Does it host special firm-sponsored events or panels? Does HR / the graduate recruitment partner see Leeds as more prestigious or more thorough in how it educates its students? You need to account for each of these points (and a lot more).

(Original post by hau28)
how does OP's post add nothing to the conversation that OP started? They provided a pretty relevant update imo.
a) They don't know what would have happened had they graduated from one of the other two unis. They haven't even bothered to tell us whether DLA Piper (let alone other firms) sponsor similar brand ambassador positions in other universities.
b) If you check their posting history, they seem to be pretty keen on parachuting their university + TC offer into the entirely wrong context. That suggests that they're looking to blow their trumpet (which is sad given that they're boasting about a DLA Piper offer in the first place)
(Original post by hau28)
How does that negate the fact that Leeds is preferred over Sheffield? Both unis offer the same types of courses, and yet Leeds is clearly more represented. Both unis also have similar numbers of students, so it's pedantic to do hypotheticals over who has applied where, as though there wouldn't be the similar proportions of people applying. But again, this is not solely down to the University, as the other two sources show, A grades seem to be more frequently occurring among Leeds students than Sheffield students, which also factors into their respective representation.

The OPs question was which University would be more likely to get them a training contract, with the general consensus being Leeds. OP's update that they got a training contract while at Sheffield was indeed a relevant response to the idea that attending Sheffield would hinder their career progression. And as said before, University representation is largely determined by the A levels achieved that influence the Uni you go to, rather than solely just the reputation of the University. I'm sure A*AA at Newcastle would fair better than AAB at UCL (all else being equal), it's just that that scenario is less likely to happen.
The point about A-levels doesn't work in the way you think it does. It offers a compelling explanation as to why Sheffs is so under-represented (they attract weaker candidates who often fail to meet law firms' minimum criteria), and thus undermines the idea that going to Sheffield will hinder someone because of some intrinsically bad aspect that Leeds doesn't share.

You'll need to provide data on the numbers of law and humanities/ social sciences students that graduated from the respective universities in the relevant period (let's say, 2008-2010ish), as well as data on where they are domiciled (foreign-domiciled students being more likely to move back home after their degrees). Even then, there's a lot more work to be done before we can control for the impact of the university on one's career opportunities. For all we know, Leeds may attract a larger % of southern students who always planned to work in London, or may attract wealthier students on average, or whatever.

Again, if you're in favour of the 'general consensus' on this thread, you need to explain why. That means going into the nitty gritty of controlling for student background and focusing on the opportunities/support offered by each institution. No one in this thread has bothered to do this.
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JohanGRK
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(Original post by Notoriety)
It is not a fact. The fact is that Leeds is more represented; that does not mean it's preferred. Leeds has approx 5k more students, it likely has more students who are AAB+ and meet firms' A-Level requirements. So it does not follow that a similar proportion would apply to the firms listed in Chambers, such that Leeds must be preferred.

Chambers has been debunked countless times on this forum. Have a look at some other threads.
I'm trying very hard to be patient with people like this, but I do suspect that we need a 'Chambers: Debunked: thread on here, preferably sooner than later. Making the same extremely simple points to people who have clearly not thought about this for more than two seconds (or who are incapable of thinking about data with any degree of sophistication) gets very tiring very quickly.
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hau28
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Again, if you're in favour of the 'general consensus' on this thread, you need to explain why. That means going into the nitty gritty of controlling for student background and focusing on the opportunities/support offered by each institution. No one in this thread has bothered to do this. - Yes nobody in this thread has bothered to do this because it is a thread, not a dissertation.

I've already said that Leeds law students tend to have higher A Level grades, therefore will have more representation and that this is a significant factor in determining how Universities are represented. Sheffield also used to have AAB as their standard offer for law if I remember correctly (around 2014/2015 entry), and consistently has standard offers which are about one grade lower than Leeds' in general. It's not a stretch to say that this would feed into how employers perceive the rigour of the University, in such an academically elitist field. If I were writing a dissertation I would do more thorough research, however I'm not, so presenting what the general consensus is with an informed background context as to why that may be is reasonable, seeing as this is a 2 year old thread on a forum website.
(Original post by JohanGRK)
There's no definite list of what counts as a 'City firm' (does e.g. DWF count? Memery?), nor is there a description of the distribution of Leeds and Sheffield graduates among these firms. I'd be more impressed by a uni that consistently sees its grads going into MC firms than a uni that's a feeder for, say, DLA Piper or another regional shop.

More to the point, you're not controlling for other factors that may have led to Leeds having a much better representation among City firms. More importantly, your claim was that going to Leeds will give OP a "better chance" of getting into a major firm (whatever that is), so the burden is on you to show how. Does Leeds get more brand ambassador positions than Sheffield? Does it get more networking dinners? Does it get exclusive office visits or open days? Does it host special firm-sponsored events or panels? Does HR / the graduate recruitment partner see Leeds as more prestigious or more thorough in how it educates its students? You need to account for each of these points (and a lot more).


a) They don't know what would have happened had they graduated from one of the other two unis. They haven't even bothered to tell us whether DLA Piper (let alone other firms) sponsor similar brand ambassador positions in other universities.
b) If you check their posting history, they seem to be pretty keen on parachuting their university + TC offer into the entirely wrong context. That suggests that they're looking to blow their trumpet (which is sad given that they're boasting about a DLA Piper offer in the first place)

The point about A-levels doesn't work in the way you think it does. It offers a compelling explanation as to why Sheffs is so under-represented (they attract weaker candidates who often fail to meet law firms' minimum criteria), and thus undermines the idea that going to Sheffield will hinder someone because of some intrinsically bad aspect that Leeds doesn't share.

You'll need to provide data on the numbers of law and humanities/ social sciences students that graduated from the respective universities in the relevant period (let's say, 2008-2010ish), as well as data on where they are domiciled (foreign-domiciled students being more likely to move back home after their degrees). Even then, there's a lot more work to be done before we can control for the impact of the university on one's career opportunities. For all we know, Leeds may attract a larger % of southern students who always planned to work in London, or may attract wealthier students on average, or whatever.

Again, if you're in favour of the 'general consensus' on this thread, you need to explain why. That means going into the nitty gritty of controlling for student background and focusing on the opportunities/support offered by each institution. No one in this thread has bothered to do this.
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