White saviour? Stacey Dooley in row with labour Mp David Lammy Watch

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#41
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#41
(Original post by Decahedron)
Do people really donate more just because a celebrity is fronting it? That is pretty depressing.
Why do you think companies pay millions of pounds for celebrities to endorse and advertise their products? Celebrity means directly that we pay more attention just because a particular person is behind the issue.
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999tigger
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#42
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(Original post by chazwomaq)
Are you saying aid is or isn't helpful?

I agree that Lammy is wrong BTW, especially as I don't think he's see the damn film.
I think its very helpful because this poverty still exists and they are trying to help. Just like it exists in the UK.
I dont think she deserved the criticism and at least she has got up and done something.
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Fullofsurprises
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#43
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(Original post by Good bloke)
I'm not saying progress hasn't been made, just that insufficient progress has been made that aid isn't helpful.

Africa's fast progress relative to that of Europe is partly due to, yes, modern technology but also help from the developed nations - the very thing that Lammy and FoS appear to be rejecting as (to paraphrase) 'it is insulting and critcising them to help them'.
I didn't say it's insulting to help them. I was suggesting that the constant depiction of Africa as a wilderness of starving babies intermittently held by Europeans in designer gear making sure the camera catches their good side does not give us an accurate view (or even a remotely accurate one) of that continent and tends to serve racist stereotyping. David Lammy may not be right in all points, but the basic point is a good one. As other contributors have pointed out, we get very little coverage of African countries in UK media, unless they are at war, starving or both.

I actually like Stacey, she is well motivated and a clever person who practises compassion in interesting ways, but there is something undeniably creepy about seeing her serving these stereotypes. Probably there is a critique behind my comments about western aid generally. We are very good at selling expensive weapons systems to African countries, sheltering the stolen assets that their dictators and corrupt governments keep in London and ignoring them unless they have oil. We are less good at entering into dialogues with citizens there about what they might really want for their countries. The constant media depictions by aid charities are understandable but seem often to serve the corrupt agenda of marginalising Africa.
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Good bloke
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#44
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#44
(Original post by chazwomaq)
Are you saying aid is or isn't helpful?
Properly directed and keeping clear of the corruption, it can be helpful, obviously.
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Good bloke
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#45
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
I was suggesting that the constant depiction of Africa as a wilderness of starving babies intermittently held by Europeans in designer gear making sure the camera catches their good side does not give us an accurate view (or even a remotely accurate one) of that continent and tends to serve racist stereotyping. David Lammy may not be right in all points, but the basic point is a good one. As other contributors have pointed out, we get very little coverage of African countries in UK media, unless they are at war, starving or both.
Well, here's the thing: the programme being complained of is not designed to portray Africa in all its glory, or even to portray it in a balanced manner. It is designed to extract as much money as possible from the public for the victims being realistically depicted. Do you think extolling its scenic wonders, or the achievements of the African Nobel prize winners would help that goal? I don't.

Perhaps you can tell us why every programme should be concerned with the political and divisive purposes you and the racist agitator Lammy, and not those of the programme makers, supported by the public?

Anyway, alerted by Mr Lammy and yourself to this fraud on the public, I shall seek a better receptacle for my charity giving from now on, something that won't attract racist censure or leave me open to accusations of exploitation. Perhaps charity does, indeed, begin at home.
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Fullofsurprises
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#46
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(Original post by Good bloke)
Well, here's the thing: the programme being complained of is not designed to portray Africa in all its glory, or even to portray it in a balanced manner. It is designed to extract as much money as possible from the public for the victims being realistically depicted. Do you think extolling its scenic wonders, or the achievements of the African Nobel prize winners would help that goal? I don't.

Perhaps you can tell us why every programme should be concerned with the political and divisive purposes you and the racist agitator Lammy, and not those of the programme makers, supported by the public?

Anyway, alerted by Mr Lammy and yourself to this fraud on the public, I shall seek a better receptacle for my charity giving from now on, something that won't attract racist censure or leave me open to accusations of exploitation. Perhaps charity does, indeed, begin at home.
The trouble is that there aren't any programmes about the achievements of Africans, at least, none that I've noticed in recent years on the Beeb, Wildlife and scenery, fine. Ordinary respectable folks - not televisual apparently. France 24 does better, as do Al Jazz, CNN and even China TV. It's almost as if some sort of racist model of Africa impinges on the mindset of British TV producers and controllers, perish the thought.

It's a smear to call black people who protest about racist agendas in the media 'racist' - given 300 years of slavery, exploitation and colonialism, black people are allowed a little slack.
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Captain Haddock
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#47
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For Christ's sake it was a critique that contained many valid points, not a wholesale takedown of the concept of charity. "Racist agitator" indeed. Shiver me timbers what are you lot like.
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Fullofsurprises
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#48
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(Original post by Good bloke)
Properly directed and keeping clear of the corruption, it can be helpful, obviously.
Stopping the sale of weapons systems by the UK to African countries would be even more helpful. Last year we sold £1.5bn worth of arms to African nations with poor human rights records.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8452101.html
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#49
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
The trouble is that there aren't any programmes about the achievements of Africans, at least, none that I've noticed in recent years on the Beeb, Wildlife and scenery, fine. Ordinary respectable folks - not televisual apparently. France 24 does better, as do Al Jazz, CNN and even China TV. It's almost as if some sort of racist model of Africa impinges on the mindset of British TV producers and controllers, perish the thought.

It's a smear to call black people who protest about racist agendas in the media 'racist' - given 300 years of slavery, exploitation and colonialism, black people are allowed a little slack.
There are many programmes about Africa, or including Africa, especially its wildlife. I doubt there is a public appetite for more.

Lammy is a racist. he is complaining about 'white saviours' not 'do-gooders'. Just the white ones. if a white chap called him a black ******* he would have no problem at all in denouncing it as racist abuse, and this is exactly the same.

What happened in the past is in the past and a privileged politician, especially, has no right to make such racist and unjustifiable comments. He has not suffered from slavery, colonialism or exploitation. He is exploiting people himself for his own political ends - divisive ones, at that. The man is the devil's spawn.
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Andrew97
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#50
(Original post by Captain Haddock)
For Christ's sake it was a critique that contained many valid points, not a wholesale takedown of the concept of charity. "Racist agitator" indeed. Shiver me timbers what are you lot like.
Then he should have just said charities doing this don’t help the issue. There’s no need to bring her skin colour into it. Something Lammy seems to enjoy doing.
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#51
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Stopping the sale of weapons systems by the UK to African countries would be even more helpful.
And you think Comic Relief has a role in that? Give me strength.
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#52
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(Original post by Andrew97)
Then he should have just said charities doing this don’t help the issue. There’s no need to bring her skin colour into it. Something Lammy seems to enjoy doing.
Lammy brings race into everything. He is a very divisive agitator.
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Andrew97
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#53
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#53
(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Stopping the sale of weapons systems by the UK to African countries would be even more helpful. Last year we sold £1.5bn worth of arms to African nations with poor human rights records.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8452101.html
Because Stacey Dooley is famous for being a weapons trader. She’s not the White Widow from Mission Impossible you know?
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BlueIndigoViolet
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#54
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imo he's in denial about the state of African countries, yes there are middle classes in the biggest cities on the entire continent - but contains some of the most underdeveloped places on Earth

- so would congratulate her for actually taking the time to raise awareness for this instead of some backbench MP seeing this as an attack on his black identity and heritage and in denial over the state of Africa.

Sad that he has to pull out the race card everytime
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ageshallnot
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(Original post by 999tigger)
I notice Lammy hasnt taken up the offer to get off his backside an o out there to make a film himself.
Perhaps he wouldn't like the images of himself as someone verging on obesity alongside starving children?
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(Original post by ageshallnot)
Perhaps he wouldn't like the images of himself as someone verging on obesity alongside starving children?
Maybe he's worried the country of Liberia doesn't have enough Cadbury stocked up to sustain his 36-hour stay.
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Wōden
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#57
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(Original post by Pachuco)
Lammy has a point, there are a lot of people like Stacey who think they are white saviours and treat non whites as their cute little pets. However Lammy is still a bigot so whatever.
It's a common trait of upper-middle class, champagne socialist types, I have noticed. They have an almost xenophillic fetish for the non-white and the non-Western, but it's a shallow, novel infatuation at best and pure virtue signalling at worst. These are the same types who will wax lyrical about multiculturalism and diversity, but still choose to live in the whitest neighbourhoods, send their children to the whitest schools and will flee an area the second it becomes too ethnic for comort (and come up with an all manner of delusions and excuses as to why, whilst being extra careful not to allude to the reason being demographic related in anyway).

I'm reminded of a few years back when certain white celebrities adopting African children was the in thing. Seemed benevolent enough on the surface, but quickly became something of a grotesque status symbol among Hollywood types. They would go out of their way to go through the difficult and very expensive process of adopting a black child from Africa, whilst overlooking the thousands of mostly white kids languishing away in the care system across America and Europe they could have adopted far more easily, which is pretty telling I think. Natually the latter wouldn't bring anywhere near as many virtue points.
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Fullofsurprises
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#58
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O heck. The Mail agree with me. Better change tack.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...eneration.html
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jameswhughes
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#59
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
I didn't say it's insulting to help them. I was suggesting that the constant depiction of Africa as a wilderness of starving babies intermittently held by Europeans in designer gear making sure the camera catches their good side does not give us an accurate view (or even a remotely accurate one) of that continent and tends to serve racist stereotyping. David Lammy may not be right in all points, but the basic point is a good one. As other contributors have pointed out, we get very little coverage of African countries in UK media, unless they are at war, starving or both.

I actually like Stacey, she is well motivated and a clever person who practises compassion in interesting ways, but there is something undeniably creepy about seeing her serving these stereotypes. Probably there is a critique behind my comments about western aid generally. We are very good at selling expensive weapons systems to African countries, sheltering the stolen assets that their dictators and corrupt governments keep in London and ignoring them unless they have oil. We are less good at entering into dialogues with citizens there about what they might really want for their countries. The constant media depictions by aid charities are understandable but seem often to serve the corrupt agenda of marginalising Africa.
Next year, Comic Relief should film some Nigerian billionaire getting his Rolls-Royce delivered, then we can assume everyone in Africa is fine, and stop sending all racist foreign aid money/medicine there completely.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by jameswhughes)
Next year, Comic Relief should film some Nigerian billionaire getting his Rolls-Royce delivered, then we can assume everyone in Africa is fine, and stop sending all racist foreign aid money/medicine there completely.
Or we could see the charming effects of UK weapons system sales on the poverty levels in such powerful countries as Rwanda, Botswana and Uganda.
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