Shamima Begums son, a death that brittish government could have prevented Watch

Cecelia Tallice
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#81
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#81
(Original post by robbiann)
I intend to personally pursue my MP to investigate how Shamima Begum can be prosecuted under international human rights legislation. She leaves the security of a country that gave her family asylum to join the most violent armed militia in the world. She has 3 children by different men whom she had never met before in the middle of a war zone and all three children die. This is infanticide at its starkest. This animal must be prosecuted . Anybody who has the smallest bit of sympathy for this 'woman' should also be investigated for evidently having terrorist sympathies.
I don’t have terrorist sympathies, I am just a very moral person. I see this from a young girls point of view, influenced by religion. You have no idea what prompted her to join I.S. I believe that her citizenship shouldn’t have been taken from her just like that. It sets a bad precedent and I genuinely believe that she had no actual role in terrorism, I.S have a very low view of women. She would have just been there to satisfy sexual needs. So she was sexually exploited.
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Andrew97
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#82
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#82
(Original post by StriderHort)
You have to wonder who 'people' would be anyway, Super Child Rescue Team™, An SAS kill team? A Social worker from Sidcup?

(Come to think of it, surely grabbing people from countries we have no treaties with is a bit iffy in the eyes of the sacred International Law?)
Javid: “ok lads, so what I’m proposing today is that we go to a refugee camp in a war zone and find 2 people, one of which is too young to fly and the other will not be given a seat by any self-respecting airline. We will then bring these people back to the country, somehow. Any volunteers? No?
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It's****ingWOODY
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#83
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(Original post by Cecelia Tallice)
I believe that if it had been any other form of underage sex and grooming, they would be helped. So why is it any different when the terrorists are doing the grooming? Surely if anything it’s worse?
An already traumatised girl has now lost her third child. If you say the government couldn’t have done anything for the baby then I think you underestimate the power that the government has.
She was a product of this society, she was failed and not properly protected. There is definitely more this country can do to stop young people from being influenced by terrorism.
Regardless of her past choices, the government had a moral responsibility to both her and her child. She is a brittish citizen and when she appeals she will get citizenship because the government cannot break international law.
She needs help which this country can provide.
Lastly, to the person that was sick of hearing my views on the subject, I suggest that the student room is not for you. Everyone is entitled an opinion. Or better still just don’t read or get involved in my threads.
"Traumatised" :rofl: She clearly isn't even sorry for what she's done, said from her own mouth that she has no regrets, and wanted to come back to the UK when she realised ISIS don't do child benefits. 15 year olds have their heads screwed on enough to map out their futures, so they're wise enough to know right from wrong. She's not a victim, stop making her out to be one.
Nobody's saying the government didn't have the power to bring the son back - we're saying they weren't under any obligation to do so. Huge difference.
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Dandaman1
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#84
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(Original post by the bear)
If D.Abbott was so upset about Ms Begum how come she did not go over there & help her ?

:holmes:
I would have paid for Diane Abbott's ticket.
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the bear
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#85
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D. Abbott should set up a scholarship fund for returning Daesh children to allow them to attend private school.
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cherryred90s
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#86
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(Original post by Cecelia Tallice)
I believe that if it had been any other form of underage sex and grooming, they would be helped. So why is it any different when the terrorists are doing the grooming? Surely if anything it’s worse?
An already traumatised girl has now lost her third child. If you say the government couldn’t have done anything for the baby then I think you underestimate the power that the government has.
She was a product of this society, she was failed and not properly protected. There is definitely more this country can do to stop young people from being influenced by terrorism.
Regardless of her past choices, the government had a moral responsibility to both her and her child. She is a brittish citizen and when she appeals she will get citizenship because the government cannot break international law.
She needs help which this country can provide.
Lastly, to the person that was sick of hearing my views on the subject, I suggest that the student room is not for you. Everyone is entitled an opinion. Or better still just don’t read or get involved in my threads.
I think everyone can agree that she brought this on herself. She went to Syria because she wanted to live in an Islamic state , get married and have children...all of which has happened. It went terribly wrong, but that’s Syria for ya! Had she continued to live happily and her kids survived, she would not be making this much noise. She would continue to defend terrorism and make more babies that would grow up to be terrorists and jihadi brides.
You using her age as a way of deflecting her blame is sad. She knew what she was getting into, which she stated herself. What if it was your own child or parent who was killed at the Manchester bombings? the bombings that she said were justified.
The only people that I feel sorry for in this mess are her dead children.
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StriderHort
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#87
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#87
(Original post by Andrew97)
Javid: “ok lads, so what I’m proposing today is that we go to a refugee camp in a war zone and find 2 people, one of which is too young to fly and the other will not be given a seat by any self-respecting airline. We will then bring these people back to the country, somehow. Any volunteers? No?
(I know this is terrible, but I think i'd proper crack up if we DID send an SAS team to get her out, and they turned up with with some random 60 year old "She said she was Shamima?" and then just shrugged. )
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Cecelia Tallice
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#88
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(Original post by It's****ingWOODY)
"Traumatised" :rofl: She clearly isn't even sorry for what she's done, said from her own mouth that she has no regrets, and wanted to come back to the UK when she realised ISIS don't do child benefits. 15 year olds have their heads screwed on enough to map out their futures, so they're wise enough to know right from wrong. She's not a victim, stop making her out to be one.
Nobody's saying the government didn't have the power to bring the son back - we're saying they weren't under any obligation to do so. Huge difference.
You clearly know nothing about psychiatry.. she is in denial to her exploitation and thinks that what she did what what her god wanted her to do. She has been radicalised to the most extreme degree . Of course she does not show regret.
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the bear
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(Original post by Cecelia Tallice)
You clearly know nothing about psychiatry.. she is in denial to her exploitation and thinks that what she did what what her god wanted her to do. She has been radicalised to the most extreme degree . Of course she does not show regret.
whateverrrrrrrrrrr
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karl pilkington
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#90
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It is more of a reflection of the horrific living conditions of the camps than anything. Why don't they have better funding and medical care?
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It's****ingWOODY
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#91
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(Original post by Cecelia Tallice)
You clearly know nothing about psychiatry.. she is in denial to her exploitation and thinks that what she did what what her god wanted her to do. She has been radicalised to the most extreme degree . Of course she does not show regret.
Nonsense. She's an adult and responsible for her own actions. Should serial killers be let off the hook if they've lived hard lives and their behaviour was affected by trauma and external influences?
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Miltonkeynes1
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#92
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How many innocent children has ISIS killed? The only person responsible for this baby's death is his evil mother for joining ISIS.
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StriderHort
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#93
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(Original post by karl pilkington)
It is more of a reflection of the horrific living conditions of the camps than anything. Why don't they have better funding and medical care?
Well it's been pretty much open season for 5+ years to blow the place to bits, infrastructure can only endure so much, and most of the people blowing bits of it up don't like the others blowing bits of it up.
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Ray_Shadows
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#94
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Darn shame , makes you think twice before knowingly joining a terrorist group
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Underscore__
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#95
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(Original post by Cecelia Tallice)
It is against international law to make someone stateless, and now an innocent child has died as a result of a British woman being stripped of her citizenship. This is callous and inhumane.

Obviously Samima Begum holds abhorrent views and to want to join Islamic State is beyond all comprehension, but she was a child, a product of our society.
I think we had a moral responsibility to her and indeed to her baby. That is why at the time I was just troubled by the decision.

It seemed driven by a sort of populism, not any principle I recognise.
International law also states that refugees are to go to the nearest safe country yet I would wager you were in favour of the UK accepting Syrian ‘refugees’; you can’t invoke international law only when it suits you.
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limetang
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#96
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She is ENTIRELY responsible for her child’s death. The Home Secretary confirmed that her child was British, it would have always been an option for her to give it up to an Embassy or Consulate if her sons safety were a priority but she chose not to, as far as we can tell because she was trying to use her child as a bargaining chip to get back into the UK.
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YaliaV
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#97
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She used her child as a tool to emotionally blackmail people. Your threads are mindless and really obnoxious.
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Dandaman1
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#98
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(Original post by Cecelia Tallice)
It is against international law to make someone stateless, and now an innocent child has died as a result of a British woman being stripped of her citizenship. This is callous and inhumane

...

It seemed driven by a sort of populism, not any principle I recognise.
There are exceptions and exemptions to this law. Britain was technically within its right to strip her of citizenship.

You keep ignoring the fact that even if Britain didn't strip her of citizenship, it's not like the government could have just flown her back from a war zone the following day. It's a little more complicated than that, especially when there's a very pregnant woman involved. I think the child would probably have died either way.

And stripping her of citizenship and wasn't driven by populism. It was driven by the fact this woman left the country to join ISIS and is an enemy of the state.
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Notoriety
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(Original post by Dandaman1)
There are exceptions and exemptions to this law. Britain was technically within its right to strip her of citizenship.

You keep ignoring the fact that even if Britain didn't strip her of citizenship, it's not like the government could have just flown her back from a war zone the following day. It's a little more complicated than that, especially when there's a very pregnant woman involved. I think the child would probably have died either way.

And stripping her of citizenship and wasn't driven by populism. It was driven by the fact this woman left the country to join ISIS and is an enemy of the state.
And in this case, they didn't even make her stateless because she is a citizen -- or could very easily become registered as a citizen -- of Bangladesh.

You're quite right about the exceptions to the Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness; i.e. we can do it for naturalised citizens who have betrayed the state, in effect.

There is an additional domestic provision that the Home Sec has reasonable belief that the naturalised citizen can get citizenship of somewhere else, but that's not international.
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Themysticalegg
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I may get slated for this but 100% Shamima's fault. Her own fault she went to Syria and joined a terrorist group which has caused harm to the British people. Time and time again the Home Office advises against travel to Syria. There is no consular representation in Syria for obvious reasons. It's hardly the government's fault for protecting the British people. Sure it was not the baby's fault but unfortunately the baby has beared the sins of his mother. Honestly in the UK we have way bigger issues to deal with than Shamima she has seen the true nature of ISIS and she doesn't like it. If we're gonna focus on anything it should be the homeless on our streets for example, not people who ditch the UK and come back when it suits them. Not the British Government's fault you decided to go there and join an extremist group is it now?

Sorry for the incoherent rant I'm tilted.
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