Brexit, a dead end? Watch

paul514
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#61
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#61
(Original post by nulli tertius)
My point is that an appeal to the sovereignty of the People doesn’t extract you from the predicament. It isn’t about winners and losers of individual popular votes.

As I have posted on another thread, I think there has to be another referendum. We cannot move the extremists. We have to move the middle ground. That means we must either change the minds of those who wish to respect the previous referendum by a new Remain vote or enlarge that group by persuading Remain inclined MPs to defer to a doubly endorsed Brexit.

A major problem is that most Brexiteers believe in their heart of hearts that they got lucky in 2016 and couldn’t win another vote. Scots Unionists think they would win Indyref2, Brexiteers don’t think they would win again.
What a pile of garbage brexiteers don’t know if they would win again that’s true but that’s because it’s 52/48 not because the arguments have changed because they haven’t!

Brexit voters don’t want another referendum simply because they already won, we live in a democracy and that means you’re supposed to enact our vote.

Never has this happened before and burton is right you should fear the wrath of leave voters if you don’t carry out the result.
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nulli tertius
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#62
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(Original post by paul514)
What a pile of garbage brexiteers don’t know if they would win again that’s true but that’s because it’s 52/48 not because the arguments have changed because they haven’t!

Brexit voters don’t want another referendum simply because they already won, we live in a democracy and that means you’re supposed to enact our vote.

Never has this happened before and burton is right you should fear the wrath of leave voters if you don’t carry out the result.
When are we going to join the Euro, then? The 1997 Labour manifesto said that we would join when the time is right. Do you think May's government remains under an obligation to carry it into effect simply because the public voted for it 20 odd years ago?
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paul514
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#63
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
When are we going to join the Euro, then? The 1997 Labour manifesto said that we would join when the time is right. Do you think May's government remains under an obligation to carry it into effect simply because the public voted for it 20 odd years ago?
If that was in the 97 manifesto then it was part of dozens of pledges that got a government elected who then immediately took power.

Here’s the difference, our vote had ONE question on the ballot paper so it is clear what the demos voted for and we still haven’t got it enacted nearly 3 years later.
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Burton Bridge
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#64
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#64
(Original post by QE2)
Ironic, coming from someone who thinks that a two and a half year old, advisory referendum somehow fixes government policy in perpetuity!
I'm sorry you are going to have to explain why you think I belive that the referendum solves the governments problem regarding the state or quality of lasting forever? And explain why you have arrived at the conclusion I think this?


I love the way the 'advisory' term is now used to describe the referendum by those whom lost the referendum, I wonder if this would be the case if remain won by 51.9%, I somehow doubt it.


(Original post by QE2)
I simply want what's best for the country. I could accept a "Norway" Brexit, for example. I'd rather remain but it would be better than No Deal or even the negotiated WA, both of which benefit only a minority.

Would you accept a "Norway" Brexit?
Woyld I accept a Norway or a Norway plus as the SNP wanted a couple of years ago? Well before I answer this, I want to stress I think we all need to certainly need to show youre lead and start talking about this. If I was the EU leaders I'd be thinking 'Britain can quote frankly f*** off and come back when it knows what it wants, a cananda deal, Norway deal, no deal, f***img make your minds up and then we can talk'

Personally I feel a Norway deal is pointless, I'd literally rather remain than take a Norway deal, I mean can you see any benifits to it? I am far more open to a version of May's deal than that in fact I read the with drawal agreement this morning and I don't understand why it's been turned down, do you? It provides what the majority of the 2016 electorate wanted.

Personally I as I said above Brexit has now been hijacked by inflexible selfish game players from both remain and leave who don't want the best for the country they want the best for themselves. A secondary in out referendum to try to stop Brexit full stop is not in the interests of the country neither is pushing for a no deal Brexit as the s'o called' ERG are. I use the term so called because I don't give them any respect at all. They are hijacking my vote to provide a Brexit the North of England don't want.

This is why it was rejected, labour testing my loyalty as well but that's a other subject
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Burton Bridge
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#65
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#65
(Original post by QE2)
So you voted Leave in order to "control immigration from everywhere". How does leaving the EU affect immigration from outside the EU? And what element of EU citizen migration upsets you? (You do realise that economic migrants in the UK from within the EU are more likely to pay tax and less likely to claim benefits than UK citizens, of course).

Also, which of the laws forced on the UK against our will by the EU do you object to most?
You are not understandimg the word 'control' its means the power to influence or direct people's behaviour or the course of events.

It's does not mean stop or even reduce, its simply means control
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Burton Bridge
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#66
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
I didn't comment on the minds of the electorate at all.

And no, I don't think having another referendum will damage democracy in the slightest.
Well you are entitled to this opinion however its one I cannot understand.

How won't it?
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Burton Bridge
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#67
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#67
(Original post by nulli tertius)
When are we going to join the Euro, then? The 1997 Labour manifesto said that we would join when the time is right. Do you think May's government remains under an obligation to carry it into effect simply because the public voted for it 20 odd years ago?
Well that's a strawman and a half....
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QE2
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#68
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(Original post by sachinisgod)
Seems like you werent listening to the debates during the referendum if you ask me this question about immigration.
OK, let's assume I wasn't watching. How does leaving the EU affect immigration from outside the EU?

You are happy for white european countries citizens to get an automatic right to walk in this country without a job or english language skills
Citizens of EU countries are entitled to free movement within the EU. Their colour is irrelevant (although your focus on it isn't, I suspect). I am happy with that. Why aren't you?

Leaving the EU would enable us to have an immigration policy which would be standardised and people would have to comply with same requirements whether they have a French passport or Indian passport. You may defend this as preference to an elite club of nations, i would call this low key racism and discrimination.
So you don't want to keep non-EU immigrants out, you want to allow them in? Refreshingly different.
I agree that freedom of movement is better than restriction, generally speaking. I'm glad we don't have to show out papers before getting on the train.
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sachinisgod
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#69
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(Original post by QE2)
OK, let's assume I wasn't watching. How does leaving the EU affect immigration from outside the EU?


Citizens of EU countries are entitled to free movement within the EU. Their colour is irrelevant (although your focus on it isn't, I suspect). I am happy with that. Why aren't you?


So you don't want to keep non-EU immigrants out, you want to allow them in? Refreshingly different.
I agree that freedom of movement is better than restriction, generally speaking. I'm glad we don't have to show out papers before getting on the train.
Are you thick or what?

Coming from a 1st generation brown immigrant i am flaberghasted that a Brit like you are happy with jobless EU migrants walking into the UK prior to receiving a job as well as no guarantee they have the right english skills, the same rules which non EU migrants have to adhere to. As a previous poster said the purpose is not keep anyone out or allowing anyone in ( clearly you cannot comprehend simple sentences) it is about the UK having the power to have a sensibly controlled immigration policy which applies EQUALLY to everyone regardless of where they are from and ensure the only people that come in are ones who:
1. There is an economic demand and
2. they have the right skills ( EU or non EU)

So your agenda of trying to get your stupid responses across is absolutely failing. Not every leave supporter is a racist white working class chav which ironically the Remain camp have labelled us as.
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Burton Bridge
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#70
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#70
(Original post by QE2)
OK, let's assume I wasn't watching. How does leaving the EU affect immigration from outside the EU?
It cuts enforced red tape and which could make it easier to employ them.

By the way I'm still waiting for you to explain why you think I belive that the referendum solves the governments problem regarding the state or quality of lasting forever? And explain why you have arrived at the conclusion I think this?
Last edited by Burton Bridge; 1 week ago
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TensorTympani
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#71
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#71
(Original post by BlueIndigoViolet)
No Brexit looking more likely -
However May's deal got rejected a new twist in the story.
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TensorTympani
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#72
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#72
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
I'm sorry you are going to have to explain why you think I belive that the referendum solves the governments problem regarding the state or quality of lasting forever? And explain why you have arrived at the conclusion I think this?


I love the way the 'advisory' term is now used to describe the referendum by those whom lost the referendum, I wonder if this would be the case if remain won by 51.9%, I somehow doubt it.




Woyld I accept a Norway or a Norway plus as the SNP wanted a couple of years ago? Well before I answer this, I want to stress I think we all need to certainly need to show youre lead and start talking about this. If I was the EU leaders I'd be thinking 'Britain can quote frankly f*** off and come back when it knows what it wants, a cananda deal, Norway deal, no deal, f***img make your minds up and then we can talk'

Personally I feel a Norway deal is pointless, I'd literally rather remain than take a Norway deal, I mean can you see any benifits to it? I am far more open to a version of May's deal than that in fact I read the with drawal agreement this morning and I don't understand why it's been turned down, do you? It provides what the majority of the 2016 electorate wanted.

Personally I as I said above Brexit has now been hijacked by inflexible selfish game players from both remain and leave who don't want the best for the country they want the best for themselves. A secondary in out referendum to try to stop Brexit full stop is not in the interests of the country neither is pushing for a no deal Brexit as the s'o called' ERG are. I use the term so called because I don't give them any respect at all. They are hijacking my vote to provide a Brexit the North of England don't want.

This is why it was rejected, labour testing my loyalty as well but that's a other subject
If I were you I would stop supporting Labour, because Labour rejected the deal which you wanted which means that your political values do not match up with those of Labours'.
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TensorTympani
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#73
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#73
:bump: brexit
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Burton Bridge
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#74
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(Original post by TensorTympani)
If I were you I would stop supporting Labour, because Labour rejected the deal which you wanted which means that your political values do not match up with those of Labours'.
You have no idea what I want or believe, I'm a former member of the Labour Party by the way.

I'm a bloody socialist, my views match very clearly with labour's, Brexit is nothing to do with left vs right or Labour vs tory
Last edited by Burton Bridge; 1 week ago
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TensorTympani
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#75
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#75
Brexit still looks like a mess at this point.
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Burton Bridge
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#76
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(Original post by TensorTympani)
Brexit still looks like a mess at this point.
Westminster MPs are making us a joke, labour are playing games.

The EU must be laughing their socks off, non of our mp's are providing reputation of their constituents.

What I said last night is looking to come to fore, our inept leaders are doing unmeasured to our country because they won't work together.
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TensorTympani
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#77
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#77
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Westminster MPs are making us a joke, labour are playing games.

The EU must be laughing their socks off, non of our mp's are providing reputation of their constituents.

What I said last night is looking to come to fore, our inept leaders are doing unmeasured to our country because they won't work together.
Likewise 75 conservative even voted against May's deal.
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Burton Bridge
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#78
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#78
(Original post by TensorTympani)
Likewise 75 conservative even voted against May's deal
Oh I agree 100% mate,
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ThatOldGuy
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#79
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#79
(Original post by TensorTympani)
Brexit still looks like a mess at this point.
You'll be happy to know that Brexit is essentially off, now.

Had the MPs stuck to their guns and allowed for a no-deal Brexit, the sheer madness may have forced the EU to capitulate. Now, since 'No deal' has been removed from the cards, the UK has lost all their bargaining power.

If the EU doesn't want Britain to leave, they can simply refuse any and all deals Britain offers. Problem solved. Crisis averted.
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QE2
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#80
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(Original post by sachinisgod)
Coming from a 1st generation brown immigrant i am flaberghasted that a Brit like you are happy with jobless EU migrants walking into the UK prior to receiving a job as well as no guarantee they have the right english skills,
Why do you feel the need to keep bringing colour into this?
I really don't know what you are referring to here. If an EU citizen can has a job in the UK, they are obviously not jobless. EU citizens are allowed to work in any EU state. That includes UK citizens working in other countries. I have absolutely no problem with that. Why do you? Simply because Counties outside the EU are subject to different conditions?

the same rules which non EU migrants have to adhere to. As a previous poster said the purpose is not keep anyone out or allowing anyone in ( clearly you cannot comprehend simple sentences) it is about the UK having the power to have a sensibly controlled immigration policy which applies EQUALLY to everyone regardless of where they are from and ensure the only people that come in are ones who:
1. There is an economic demand and
2. they have the right skills ( EU or non EU)
The same rules apply equally to all EU states.
So if the UK applied EU immigration conditions to every country in the world, you'd be happy?

So your agenda of trying to get your stupid responses across is absolutely failing. Not every leave supporter is a racist white working class chav which ironically the Remain camp have labelled us as.
I agree that not all Leave voters are racist xenophobes, some are well-meaning but gullible. But yeah, when you get down to their actual reasons for voting leave they seem to be based of racism and xenophobia.
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