Brexit, a dead end? Watch

QE2
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#81
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#81
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
It cuts enforced red tape and which could make it easier to employ them.
So you support Leave because it will make immigration from non EU countries easier? Yeah, right!


By the way I'm still waiting for you to explain why you think I belive that the referendum solves the governments problem regarding the state or quality of lasting forever? And explain why you have arrived at the conclusion I think this?
I have no idea what point you are trying to make here. Could you clarify? Thanks.
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CurlyBen
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#82
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#82
(Original post by QE2)
Why do you feel the need to keep bringing colour into this?
I really don't know what you are referring to here. If an EU citizen can has a job in the UK, they are obviously not jobless. EU citizens are allowed to work in any EU state. That includes UK citizens working in other countries. I have absolutely no problem with that. Why do you? Simply because Counties outside the EU are subject to different conditions?


The same rules apply equally to all EU states.
So if the UK applied EU immigration conditions to every country in the world, you'd be happy?


I agree that not all Leave voters are racist xenophobes, some are well-meaning but gullible. But yeah, when you get down to their actual reasons for voting leave they seem to be based of racism and xenophobia.
Freedom of movement has led to a large influx of relatively low skilled labour in the UK. That pushes down wages. The effect has been mitigated to an extent by minimum wage changes, but it causes stagnation of wages just above that level. As an example I worked at the same factory in 2010 and 2016, wages were respectively £10.53/hr and £9.10/hr. That's a pretty significant decline, and there were many more Eastern Europeans working there in 2016. Realistically it's a complex issue as the factory might have closed earlier without the reduction in labour costs that immigration enabled, but if you're earning less as a result it can be hard to look at the big picture and not be resentful. It's worth noting that the areas and jobs most affected by EU immigration tend to be poorer and less educated - which are also common characteristics of those areas that voted to leave. There are objections to freedom of movement which have nothing to do with racism or xenophobia.
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nulli tertius
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#83
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#83
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Well you are entitled to this opinion however its one I cannot understand.

How won't it?
Anyone who says “letting me have a another vote has destroyed my faith in democracy”, would sound like a right Charlie.
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Trotsky's Iceaxe
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#84
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#84
(Original post by CurlyBen)
Freedom of movement has led to a large influx of relatively low skilled labour in the UK. That pushes down wages. The effect has been mitigated to an extent by minimum wage changes, but it causes stagnation of wages just above that level. As an example I worked at the same factory in 2010 and 2016, wages were respectively £10.53/hr and £9.10/hr. That's a pretty significant decline, and there were many more Eastern Europeans working there in 2016. Realistically it's a complex issue as the factory might have closed earlier without the reduction in labour costs that immigration enabled, but if you're earning less as a result it can be hard to look at the big picture and not be resentful. It's worth noting that the areas and jobs most affected by EU immigration tend to be poorer and less educated - which are also common characteristics of those areas that voted to leave. There are objections to freedom of movement which have nothing to do with racism or xenophobia.
Freedom of movement work both ways. There was nothing stopping you from moving to another country and seeking employment there. Instead you chose to work in a factory for six years.
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TensorTympani
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#85
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#85
(Original post by QE2)
I agree that not all Leave voters are racist xenophobes, some are well-meaning but gullible. But yeah, when you get down to their actual reasons for voting leave they seem to be based of racism and xenophobia.
Not really because I voted for leave because of the freedom of negotiating our own trade deals, and having the freedom to make our own allies.
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TensorTympani
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#86
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#86
(Original post by QE2)
So you support Leave because it will make immigration from non EU countries easier? Yeah, right!
It would not make non-Eu countries immigration harder but it would make EU nationals equal with nationals from every other countries in the world.
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paul514
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#87
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#87
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
It cuts enforced red tape and which could make it easier to employ them.

By the way I'm still waiting for you to explain why you think I belive that the referendum solves the governments problem regarding the state or quality of lasting forever? And explain why you have arrived at the conclusion I think this?
It also makes it easier for the public to demand lower migration numbers which is clearly wanted as they don’t have the line yea but half of it we can’t control.
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paul514
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#88
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#88
(Original post by Trotsky's Iceaxe)
Freedom of movement work both ways. There was nothing stopping you from moving to another country and seeking employment there. Instead you chose to work in a factory for six years.
Perhaps the poster doesn’t want to leave their life behind and live in a country that is alien to him just to accommodate workers from elsewhere in the world?
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paul514
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#89
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#89
(Original post by nulli tertius)
Anyone who says “letting me have a another vote has destroyed my faith in democracy”, would sound like a right Charlie.
Anyone who says let’s have another vote because I didn’t get my way sounds like a right Charlie
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Burton Bridge
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#90
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#90
(Original post by QE2)
So you support Leave because it will make immigration from non EU countries easier? Yeah, right!



I have no idea what point you are trying to make here. Could you clarify? Thanks.
With that reply I believe you have summed.up you're own ability. You dismiss my factual reason/answer with a 'yeah right' and admit you have no idea why you accused me of believing that the referendum solves the governments problem regarding the state or quality of lasting forever?

No point carrying on with you're POV from here, it makes no logical sense to me and not to you either by the sounds of it!
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Burton Bridge
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#91
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#91
(Original post by ThatOldGuy)
You'll be happy to know that Brexit is essentially off, now.

Had the MPs stuck to their guns and allowed for a no-deal Brexit, the sheer madness may have forced the EU to capitulate. Now, since 'No deal' has been removed from the cards, the UK has lost all their bargaining power.

If the EU doesn't want Britain to leave, they can simply refuse any and all deals Britain offers. Problem solved. Crisis averted.
You are correct but as said after the rejection of May's bill, now the real crisis starts.
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Burton Bridge
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#92
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#92
(Original post by nulli tertius)
Anyone who says “letting me have a another vote has destroyed my faith in democracy”, would sound like a right Charlie.

Anyone wanting another vote that runs an almost certain risk of destroying the electorate's faith in british democracy is a right Charlie in my book to use you're words.

That's why is can't and shouldn't ever happen, but last nights votes give all the power to the EU in effect we don't have MPs that believe in Britain.
Last edited by Burton Bridge; 1 week ago
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TensorTympani
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#93
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#93
Is parliament ruining Brexit for the UK?
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paul514
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#94
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#94
(Original post by TensorTympani)
Is parliament ruining Brexit for the UK?
They are trying their best but alas only the PM has the power to ruin brexit.
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Burton Bridge
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#95
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#95
(Original post by Trotsky's Iceaxe)
Freedom of movement work both ways. There was nothing stopping you from moving to another country and seeking employment there. Instead you chose to work in a factory for six years.
And it was a great idea if all member states had similar wealth, it also worked untill the expansion of the EU and the EU's refusal to modify its policy dispite member states like ourselves asking for it!
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paul514
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#96
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#96
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
And it was a great idea if all member states had similar wealth, it also worked untill the expansion of the EU and the EU's refusal to modify its policy dispite member states like ourselves asking for it!
Indeed, funny how people forget that people didn’t care about EU migration pre accession countries joining after the millennium
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Burton Bridge
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#97
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#97
(Original post by TensorTympani)
It would not make non-Eu countries immigration harder but it would make EU nationals equal with nationals from every other countries in the world.
(Original post by paul514)
It also makes it easier for the public to demand lower migration numbers which is clearly wanted as they don’t have the line yea but half of it we can’t control.
Exactly that, we seem to be talking to people whom think they are educated and we are stupid, racist and God knows what else, but it's obvious to me that they are only arriving at these conclusions because of a lack of understanding of our points

I fail to see how it's justifiable for leavers to suffer such abhorrent abuse for airing genuine reasons/quoting facts to justify their our point of veiw that are outside of the comprehensive capacity of the vocal miniorty of hard core remainers to understand basic English words like 'control' or take on others view points.

They are taking the easy option of dismissing a opinion they cannot assimilate because they either don't have to intelligent to understand it or are not willing to attempt to understand, which ironically is the bigoted behaviour they are accusing levers off!
Last edited by Burton Bridge; 1 week ago
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nulli tertius
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#98
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#98
(Original post by paul514)
Anyone who says let’s have another vote because I didn’t get my way sounds like a right Charlie
Isn’t that what every Leader of the Opposition says every Wednesday lunchtime?
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cloud10
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#99
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#99
As an EU student, I hope brexit gonna postponed
What are the chance of this happening ??
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Burton Bridge
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#100
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#100
(Original post by nulli tertius)
Isn’t that what every Leader of the Opposition says every Wednesday lunchtime?
Yes but this is far bigger than party politics nulli.
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