Second referendum supporters, do you want "no-deal" to be left off the ballo Watch

nonotyoutoo
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If so, why? Polling shows 44% support no deal, it is now the most popular single position.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/10...ls-public-poll

Even the Grauniad and the leader of Hope not Hate thinks its dangerous to have a second referendum without a no-deal option.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...brexit-impasse
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Burton Bridge
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Because nobody can accept losing a referendum, referendums don't work.
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Dez
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(Original post by nonotyoutoo)
If so, why? Polling shows 44% support no deal, it is now the most popular single position.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/10...ls-public-poll
Actually, in the poll referred to by that article, remaining in the EU is the most popular single position. No deal does command more support than May's deal, but both combined still fall short of the remainer majoirty.
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by Dez)
Actually, in the poll referred to by that article, remaining in the EU is the most popular single position. No deal does command more support than May's deal, but both combined still fall short of the remainer majoirty.
Not how I read either of them, anyhow that's the grand master plan and always has been, split the leave vote and remain wins because remain cannot accept losing a referendum somehow it is preceived that leave will, even though its blantly unfair.

What both articles (even the guardian's) are saying is that is wrong and a second referendum must be fair.
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Dez
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Not how I read either of them, anyhow that's the grand master plan and always has been, split the leave vote and remain wins because remain cannot accept losing a referendum somehow it is preceived that leave will, even though its blantly unfair.

What both articles (even the guardian's) are saying is that is wrong and a second referendum must be fair.
"the grand master plan" :rolleyes:

Obviously it must all be a nasty conspiracy right? Not like a significant portion of the UK electorate could just change their mind about something…

Also it is ridiculously ironic for a leave supporter to call anything "blatantly unfair" given how much the leave campaign has cheated during the 2016 referendum.
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SCIENCE :D
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Because nobody can accept losing a referendum, referendums don't work.
It's nly immature people and people who have gotten everything their whole life, who can't accept a referendum result. It's no surprise that all the clowns who stand outside parliament 24/7 waving their EU flags are middle/upper class white folk.
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Trotsky's Iceaxe
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(Original post by SCIENCE :D)
It's nly immature people and people who have gotten everything their whole life, who can't accept a referendum result. It's no surprise that all the clowns who stand outside parliament 24/7 waving their EU flags are middle/upper class white folk.
Far from it. Continuing to argue for what you believe in and not jumping on the bandwagon with the majority when the political winds are turning against you is a sign of maturity.

To quote a prominent Brexit supporter "if a democracy can not change it's mind, it ceases to be a democracy.".

And what does a person's skin colour have to do with Brexit?
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by Dez)
"the grand master plan" :rolleyes:

Obviously it must all be a nasty conspiracy right? Not like a significant portion of the UK electorate could just change their mind about something…

Also it is ridiculously ironic for a leave supporter to call anything "blatantly unfair" given how much the leave campaign has cheated during the 2016 referendum.
Well there is no evidence that anyone is changing their mind one way let alone a large proportion, that's also what the article is showing!

A secondary referendum would be pointless neither side would have a clear lead, it would give a similar result! All we would do cost the taxpayer money, upset the electorate and more importantly give our hand away in potential EU negotiations.

While we are talking about wrong doing's it's important to think about what you are saying, firstly I don't believe the remain camp was whiter than white regarding their campaign, unfair lies in their campaign was uttered also! However let's say remain whiter than white, what does that say about you're message?

For clarity are you saying that two wrongs make a right?

Are you saying that if it's you're side that's rigging a result is OK?
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by SCIENCE :D)
It's nly immature people and people who have gotten everything their whole life, who can't accept a referendum result. It's no surprise that all the clowns who stand outside parliament 24/7 waving their EU flags are middle/upper class white folk.
You got it mate... But they are only doing it for the poor, its the stupid poor people that will suffer.... Disingenuous much?
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by Trotsky's Iceaxe)
Far from it. Continuing to argue for what you believe in and not jumping on the bandwagon with the majority when the political winds are turning against you is a sign of maturity.

To quote a prominent Brexit supporter "if a democracy can not change it's mind, it ceases to be a democracy.".

And what does a person's skin colour have to do with Brexit?
The political winds are changing because the political leaders are not doing what the public want.

The views of the people is not and has not changed, people just want parliament to get on with it and move on with their life's.

Hard core Remain has became elitest a snobby in every way possible.
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Dez
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Well there is no evidence that anyone is changing their mind one way let alone a large proportion, that's also what the article is showing!
No survey is ever going to provide irrefutable evidence, as the opinion polls leading up to June 2016 proved oh so very well. Still, it is clear that support for remaining in the EU is on the rise, and it doesn't take a genius to guess at the main reason for that.

(Original post by Burton Bridge)
A secondary referendum would be pointless neither side would have a clear lead, it would give a similar result! All we would do cost the taxpayer money, upset the electorate and more importantly give our hand away in potential EU negotiations.
Neither side had a clear lead in 2016 either, we've already spent tons of taxpayer money on the farce of negotiations to get to where we are now, and our "hand" in the EU dealings is a complete and utter shambles. At this point, we've got very little to lose by pursuing another referendum, it's far less damaging than most of the other options on the table.

(Original post by Burton Bridge)
While we are talking about wrong doing's it's important to think about what you are saying, firstly I don't believe the remain camp was whiter than white regarding their campaign, unfair lies in their campaign was uttered also! However let's say remain whiter than white, what does that say about you're message?
The leave campaign was prosecuted for breaking electoral law, and fined a substantial amount. Do you deny that?

(Original post by Burton Bridge)
For clarity are you saying that two wrongs make a right?
No, I'm saying that if you really supported fairness, you would in fact be calling for a second referendum with gusto, given how demonstrably unfair the first one was.

(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Are you saying that if it's you're side that's rigging a result is OK?
Nobody "rigged" anything, lets not confuse terminology here. Breaking electoral law is not the same as rigging an election.
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ColinDent
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(Original post by Dez)
No survey is ever going to provide irrefutable evidence, as the opinion polls leading up to June 2016 proved oh so very well. Still, it is clear that support for remaining in the EU is on the rise, and it doesn't take a genius to guess at the main reason for that.



Neither side had a clear lead in 2016 either, we've already spent tons of taxpayer money on the farce of negotiations to get to where we are now, and our "hand" in the EU dealings is a complete and utter shambles. At this point, we've got very little to lose by pursuing another referendum, it's far less damaging than most of the other options on the table.



The leave campaign was prosecuted for breaking electoral law, and fined a substantial amount. Do you deny that?



No, I'm saying that if you really supported fairness, you would in fact be calling for a second referendum with gusto, given how demonstrably unfair the first one was.



Nobody "rigged" anything, lets not confuse terminology here. Breaking electoral law is not the same as rigging an election.
Do you have evidence to support your claim that support for remain is on the rise, and at a sufficient level to justify another referendum before the result of the first one has been enacted?
I not only know some people who voted remain that have changed their minds but also some who would still prefer to remain but would vote to leave because they feel that the result of the first referendum should be honoured.
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anosmianAcrimony
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We're dragging Northern Ireland out with us if we leave with no deal. That would seem to build a border between Northern Ireland and the rest of Ireland, which we agreed not to do in the Good Friday agreement. Sounds like a troubling turn of events.
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ColinDent
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(Original post by anosmianAcrimony)
We're dragging Northern Ireland out with us if we leave with no deal. That would seem to build a border between Northern Ireland and the rest of Ireland, which we agreed not to do in the Good Friday agreement. Sounds like a troubling turn of events.
Who would erect this hard border? If we leave without a deal then I put it to you that no hard border would ever be put in place because whomever were to do it would be viewed as the provocateurs, and neither side wants to be seen as such.
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Doones
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(Original post by nonotyoutoo)
If so, why? Polling shows 44% support no deal, it is now the most popular single position.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/10...ls-public-poll

Even the Grauniad and the leader of Hope not Hate thinks its dangerous to have a second referendum without a no-deal option.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...brexit-impasse
Rather than quote The Express, that bastion of unreliable "journalism", did you look at the actual ComRes survey?

https://www.comresglobal.com/wp-cont...9_updated3.pdf

How would you vote (in the EU referendum) now?
* 39% Leave
* 46% Remain
* 7% Would not vote
* 7% Don't know
* 1% Prefer not to say
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Dez
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(Original post by ColinDent)
Do you have evidence to support your claim that support for remain is on the rise, and at a sufficient level to justify another referendum before the result of the first one has been enacted?
I not only know some people who voted remain that have changed their minds but also some who would still prefer to remain but would vote to leave because they feel that the result of the first referendum should be honoured.
Yes, the survey that OP's article referred to. The one in which 46% opined that remaining in the EU was the best course of action for the UK, beating both May's deal and no deal combined.

I do not base the justification of a second referendum on this, though. It's simply the case now that it's the least worst option available - scrapping/delaying brexit would cause problems, May's deal would cause problems, no deal would cause a ton of problems, so at this point I don't really see any other way out of this mess that avoids tanking the economy while still maintaining some form of democratic choice.
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Doones
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Also staying in the EU (or having a 2nd ref) is viewed as better for the economy, and democracy.

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jp.lk12
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Based on current circumstances, really don't think UK will lose much in having a second referendum at this point. Probably the most fair way to deal with brexit at this point too.
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ColinDent
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(Original post by Dez)
Yes, the survey that OP's article referred to. The one in which 46% opined that remaining in the EU was the best course of action for the UK, beating both May's deal and no deal combined.

I do not base the justification of a second referendum on this, though. It's simply the case now that it's the least worst option available - scrapping/delaying brexit would cause problems, May's deal would cause problems, no deal would cause a ton of problems, so at this point I don't really see any other way out of this mess that avoids tanking the economy while still maintaining some form of democratic choice.
Erm, that's less than the 48% that voted to remain in the actual referendum, all you have done is proven support has in fact gone down.
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Dez
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(Original post by ColinDent)
Erm, that's less than the 48% that voted to remain in the actual referendum, all you have done is proven support has in fact gone down.
That's… not how this works. You can't directly compare the results of an opinion poll to a plebiscite. The latter usually doesn't have options like "don't know" or "prefer not to say", for example.
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