henry1999
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I have recently been considering Brexit in relation to internships (next year), and based on conversations I have had recently, it appears that it should be easier to get an internship at investment banks in the U.K. Post-Brexit. However, let me give you the context of this statement before you all fly off the handle xD

- I had a conversation with a member of the operating board at Morgan Stanley a month ago, he was saying that there they have no intention of leaving the UK due to Brexit as it stands due to the legal and regulatory tribulations of moving. He considered the UK (alone) sufficient in terms of talent for finding staff. - (However, he did make clear that if s**t really hit the fan, they would move. Although he saw Corbyn as more of a threat to the banking sector than Brexit.)

- As it stands to get an internship in the UK you need a standard work visa, (unlike the U.S. where there is a specific visa for internships, which is easier to aquire). A standard work visa requires sponsorship and a quite hefty monteary commitment (for an intern), and more importantly for the employer to demonstrate they couldn't find an individual suitable for the companies' needs domestically.

- I want to also make clear I am not pro-brexit, so in now way am I trying to convert anybody into becoming a Brexiteer on this basis.

- I am aware that Brexit is a highly unpredictable process, and it could go sideways and could result in them leaving but on the basis of what he says, until there is further evidence demonstrating otherwise, I am assuming that the Morgan Stanley board member was correct regarding the future of Brexit in relation to banking.


Does anybody have an effective rebuttal for this view?

Does anybody have anything that would conclusively demonstrate what the board member is saying is bulls**t?
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999tigger
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(Original post by henry1999)
I have recently been considering Brexit in relation to internships (next year), and based on conversations I have had recently, it appears that it should be easier to get an internship at investment banks in the U.K. Post-Brexit. However, let me give you the context of this statement before you all fly off the handle xD

- I had a conversation with a member of the operating board at Morgan Stanley a month ago, he was saying that there they have no intention of leaving the UK due to Brexit as it stands due to the legal and regulatory tribulations of moving. He considered the UK (alone) sufficient in terms of talent for finding staff. - (However, he did make clear that if s**t really hit the fan, they would move. Although he saw Corbyn as more of a threat to the banking sector than Brexit.)

- As it stands to get an internship in the UK you need a standard work visa, (unlike the U.S. where there is a specific visa for internships, which is easier to aquire). A standard work visa requires sponsorship and a quite hefty monteary commitment (for an intern), and more importantly for the employer to demonstrate they couldn't find an individual suitable for the companies' needs domestically.

- I want to also make clear I am not pro-brexit, so in now way am I trying to convert anybody into becoming a Brexiteer on this basis.

- I am aware that Brexit is a highly unpredictable process, and it could go sideways and could result in them leaving but on the basis of what he says, until there is further evidence demonstrating otherwise, I am assuming that the Morgan Stanley board member was correct regarding the future of Brexit in relation to banking.


Does anybody have an effective rebuttal for this view?

Does anybody have anything that would conclusively demonstrate what the board member is saying is bulls**t?
Did you do a thread asking if it would be easier to get into a top uni after brexit?
All the same responses and issues apply.
Theres not much point discussing it imo until we know whether we have deal or no deal.
There are also plenty of variables not covered by you which could influence availability of internships. If you are good enough you will get in.
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henry1999
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(Original post by 999tigger)
Did you do a thread asking if it would be easier to get into a top uni after brexit?
All the same responses and issues apply.
Theres not much point discussing it imo until we know whether we have deal or no deal.
There are also plenty of variables not covered by you which could influence availability of internships. If you are good enough you will get in.
I think the issues between uni and internships are quite different, the process of getting a student visa is incredibly different to getting a work visa. As it stands, top universities have students from all over the world, (as far as I'm aware), Investment banks based in the U.K. do not.

In reference to whether we have a deal or not, the deal that's on the table doesn't look at all ready to change and whether we leave on WTO terms or on the terms currently set out. Neither would allow interns to come to the UK work visa-free.

What are the other variables? - I think its incredibly important the outcomes are discussed before Brexit, rather than after... People need to understand the implications of various outcomes so that they can hold an informed opinion, which (should) play a (small) part in determining the governments' direction!
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mikeleo9
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Above all, in my opinion, UK should start protecting the rights of its own British graduates.

The ability for EU (Continental Europe) students/graduates to work into the UK without ever having any ties to UK, either through family, education, or work experience, is fundamentally flawed in my opinion. EU graduates can first do an IBD internship in their own country, e.g. Paris or Milan, which is *substantially* less competitive than London, and then apply directly to London, depriving positions for British graduates, who were not able to get an internship the prior year due to the dynamics being substantially competitive. UK students cannot simply intern in EU countries, as EU employers prefer native over fluent speakers.

I have spoken to HRs are I-banks, and under the current model, they do not have "quotas" for UK citizen. As long as one does not require a visa (which includes all EU students), they are put into the same category. This has resulted in the following: I know a 12-person team at a I-bank in London, only having 1 British person, with all the remaining people being from the EU. Do you think this is logical?

You may argue that the US operates on similar terms; it, however, does not. If someone wants to work in NYC, but lives in Chicago, they do require familial ties, education or a very valid reason for working in NYC. Many NYC-based I-banks also have special programmes for universities that are based in NYC, thereby directly protecting the students that are based in each region.

Thoughts?
Last edited by mikeleo9; 1 week ago
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BusMan21
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Well, here’s some facts of how graduate recruitment has moved recently -

Graduate cohort numbers are slimming, certain banks are letting off (or immediately reallocating) Analysts within weeks of hitting their jobs in the last few months, and many programs are all but removing any prospect of securing full-time roles without doing an internship.
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mikeleo9
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(Original post by BusMan21)
Well, here’s some facts of how graduate recruitment has moved recently -

Graduate cohort numbers are slimming, certain banks are letting off (or immediately reallocating) Analysts within weeks of hitting their jobs in the last few months, and many programs are all but removing any prospect of securing full-time roles without doing an internship.
Yes, and this only adds weight to my argument above.
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J Papi
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This is the investment banking equivalent of a NEET/incel thread
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h3110
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(Original post by J Papi)
This is the investment banking equivalent of a NEET/incel thread
Anyone I disagree with is an incel
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J Papi
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(Original post by h3110)
Anyone I disagree with is an incel
"bad foreign students stealing our jebs"

Man do I love these butthurt threads
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h3110
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(Original post by J Papi)
"bad foreign students stealing our jebs"

Man do I love these butthurt threads
cringe
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J Papi
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(Original post by h3110)
cringe
Not as cringy as making up things like "Anyone I disagree with is an incel"

Hope that your Big 4 apps go well
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h3110
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(Original post by J Papi)
Not as cringy as making up things like "Anyone I disagree with is an incel"

Hope that your Big 4 apps go well
please don't stalk me bro
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Princepieman
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(Original post by mikeleo9)
Above all, in my opinion, UK should start protecting the rights of its own British graduates.

The ability for EU (Continental Europe) students/graduates to work into the UK without ever having any ties to UK, either through family, education, or work experience, is fundamentally flawed in my opinion. EU graduates can first do an IBD internship in their own country, e.g. Paris or Milan, which is *substantially* less competitive than London, and then apply directly to London, depriving positions for British graduates, who were not able to get an internship the prior year due to the dynamics being substantially competitive. UK students cannot simply intern in EU countries, as EU employers prefer native over fluent speakers.

I have spoken to HRs are I-banks, and under the current model, they do not have "quotas" for UK citizen. As long as one does not require a visa (which includes all EU students), they are put into the same category. This has resulted in the following: I know a 12-person team at a I-bank in London, only having 1 British person, with all the remaining people being from the EU. Do you think this is logical?

You may argue that the US operates on similar terms; it, however, does not. If someone wants to work in NYC, but lives in Chicago, they do require familial ties, education or a very valid reason for working in NYC. Many NYC-based I-banks also have special programmes for universities that are based in NYC, thereby directly protecting the students that are based in each region.

Thoughts?
I mean this is pretty simple reasoning.. London covers the entirety of EMEA deals in most cases (with local teams in local offices only doing a bit of support work on deals, whilst London drives the deal). If british people don't have the language capabilites to cover those countries (the UK is only a sliver of the entire economic activity of the EMEA region) then who are you going to hire? People who have those language skills. That's why most of the UK coverage teams are mostly british and most of the pan-EMEA teams are a mix of internationals and a few britsh folks.

This isn't the US. EMEA doesn't have one uniform language, it doesn't have one uniform market and it doesn't have one uniform set of customs - it's an entirely fragmentised economic bloc. People in the states have the benefit of an economy that is many times larger than the UK's will ever be and it all being contained in one country unified under one government.

Also I have no idea what you're alluding to about NYC. Banks in NYC recruit nationally for grads; with most of their SA programmes being staffed out by target and semi-target school kids from across the states. You can maybe argue that some locations recruit more heavily locally (e.g. CHI, SFBA, LA, HOU etc) but they still also source kids from everywhere. It's not an astute counter argument.
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