Are they trying to stop Brexit and succeeding? Watch

karl pilkington
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They have voted against a deal then against leaving without a deal and will probably vote tonight for extending article 50 maybe for another two years. This in my view is an establishment stitch-up designed to stop us leaving if they get another referendum then it will be stopped completely.
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Trotsky's Iceaxe
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MPs didn't just vote against a deal, they voted against bad deal. The nuance is important.

As for an establishment stitch-up, a lot of opposition towards May's deal within the Conservative ranks come from hard Brexit supporters. They are about as anti-establishment as The Queen.
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karl pilkington
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(Original post by Trotsky's Iceaxe)
MPs didn't just vote against a deal, they voted against bad deal. The nuance is important.

As for an establishment stitch-up, a lot of opposition towards May's deal within the Conservative ranks come from hard Brexit supporters. They are about as anti-establishment as The Queen.
No they voted against leaving without a deal which is voting aginst Brexit and they are now trying to extend the article 50 deadline.
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tazarooni89
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(Original post by karl pilkington)
They have voted against a deal then against leaving without a deal and will probably vote tonight for extending article 50 maybe for another two years. This in my view is an establishment stitch-up designed to stop us leaving if they get another referendum then it will be stopped completely.
Not if everyone votes Leave again.
Why does everyone seem to automatically assume that Second Referendum = Remain?
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karl pilkington
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(Original post by tazarooni89)
Not if everyone votes Leave again.
Why does everyone seem to automatically assume that Second Referendum = Remain?
Because that's what most polls show also the establishment will not allow us to vote to leave a second time they will come up with a way to cheat the result.
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tazarooni89
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(Original post by karl pilkington)
Because that's what most polls show
Are you saying that you think the majority of the British electorate now want to stay in the EU?

also the establishment will not allow us to vote to leave a second time they will come up with a way to cheat the result.
If they wanted to do that, why would they need a second referendum? They could just do that now
Last edited by tazarooni89; 1 week ago
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Nalk1573
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postpone brexit until 2025

then we can have a second referendum in 2028

then we can discuss it until 2031

then make the decision in 2032

What do people think ?
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Bio 7
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(Original post by tazarooni89)
Not if everyone votes Leave again.
Why does everyone seem to automatically assume that Second Referendum = Remain?
Because of the mess we have had for the last couple of years. Most people would probably be less inclined to leave and more people would be interested in voting remain.
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999tigger
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(Original post by karl pilkington)
No they voted against leaving without a deal which is voting aginst Brexit and they are now trying to extend the article 50 deadline.
Your understanding of what is going on is simplistic and leading you to confusion.
There are various factions and they want different things.

Voting against leaving without a transition deal is not a vote against brexit its a vote against not having an agreement in place to make sure the exit is in an orderly fashion to prevent chaos and unnecessary damage to the economy.

The only thing preventing the current transitional arrangement being implemented is the issue of the backstop, which is niche but important. If they solve that, then most likely her deal will go through and we will exit.

Is the backstop not important you you?
Wouldnt it make sense to leave in a way that does least damage to our economy and save jobs?
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karl pilkington
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(Original post by 999tigger)
Your understanding of what is going on is simplistic and leading you to confusion.
There are various factions and they want different things.

Voting against leaving without a transition deal is not a vote against brexit its a vote against not having an agreement in place to make sure the exit is in an orderly fashion to prevent chaos and unnecessary damage to the economy.

The only thing preventing the current transitional arrangement being implemented is the issue of the backstop, which is niche but important. If they solve that, then most likely her deal will go through and we will exit.

Is the backstop not important you you?
Wouldnt it make sense to leave in a way that does least damage to our economy and save jobs?
Don't condescend to me. They have had nearly three years to sort it out. Anyone wanting to delay now is looking to do so in order to stop Brexit there is no other reason. The reason we couldn't get a good deal is because of the intransigence of the EU. If we leave without a deal on WTO terms that will solve the backstop problem.
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SankaraInBloom
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Will just say that there was never any possibility of Britain getting a good deal - all sides were far too stubborn from the offset, something I admit begrudgingly as a Europhile Remainer.

However, No Deal isn't what Brexit meant. Brexit meant 17 million things to 17 million people - people knew what they were voting for, but they didn't all agree on the outcome. Really we should've held an STV referendum once the Leave vote happened to determine which form of Brexit occurred.
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999tigger
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(Original post by karl pilkington)
Don't condescend to me. They have had nearly three years to sort it out. Anyone wanting to delay now is looking to do so in order to stop Brexit there is no other reason. The reason we couldn't get a good deal is because of the intransigence of the EU. If we leave without a deal on WTO terms that will solve the backstop problem.
You underestimate the complexity of separating yourself from an organisation from which you have been a member of for over 40 years.

I have already given you two reasons as to why there is current debate and it is not whether to leave but on what basis.

The way you talk shows you dont even understand what Mays deal is about nor why the MPs and various factions are in dispute.

I would prefer we leave in a way that does least damage to the UK and its prospects because the economy matters.
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That'sGreat
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Not trying. Succeeding.
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anosmianAcrimony
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(Original post by karl pilkington)
Because that's what most polls show also the establishment will not allow us to vote to leave a second time they will come up with a way to cheat the result.
But if the polls show that most Britons want to remain now, what platform do you even have for suggesting that we still go ahead and leave? And why would the establishment even need to rig the vote?
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anosmianAcrimony
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(Original post by karl pilkington)
Don't condescend to me. They have had nearly three years to sort it out. Anyone wanting to delay now is looking to do so in order to stop Brexit there is no other reason. The reason we couldn't get a good deal is because of the intransigence of the EU. If we leave without a deal on WTO terms that will solve the backstop problem.
Wow, you have no idea what you're talking about.
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karl pilkington
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(Original post by anosmianAcrimony)
But if the polls show that most Britons want to remain now, what platform do you even have for suggesting that we still go ahead and leave? And why would the establishment even need to rig the vote?
Because we had a referendum and won it? They will still try to rig it just to be sure of victory.
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ColinDent
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(Original post by Bio 7)
Because of the mess we have had for the last couple of years. Most people would probably be less inclined to leave and more people would be interested in voting remain.
I disagree
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ColinDent
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(Original post by anosmianAcrimony)
But if the polls show that most Britons want to remain now, what platform do you even have for suggesting that we still go ahead and leave? And why would the establishment even need to rig the vote?
They don't though.
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Decahedron
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(Original post by Bio 7)
Because of the mess we have had for the last couple of years. Most people would probably be less inclined to leave and more people would be interested in voting remain.
I'm more inclined having seen what a bunch of ****s the EU are.
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by tazarooni89)
Not if everyone votes Leave again.
Why does everyone seem to automatically assume that Second Referendum = Remain?
Because they are out of touch with ordinary peoples views.

Also most want rig the result to remain by splitting the leave vote into 2 sections

In answer to the OP - yes
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