Are they trying to stop Brexit and succeeding? Watch

8=======D
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#21
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#21
no deal Brexit is something we should avoid
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Rakas21
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#22
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#22
When people have talked about establishment ploys the last two years i have generally laughed this off however the events of this week were breathtaking and leave me acknowledging that this view is correct.

Although i don't think May or the government are really part of this ploy (they are victims of patliamentry arithmetic) there are a large group of establishment remoaners in hoc with the speaker who are determined to thwart the wish of the people.

It is truly terrible to see our country at the mercy of this establishment.
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Royal Oak
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#23
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#23
(Original post by Rakas21)
When people have talked about establishment ploys the last two years i have generally laughed this off however the events of this week were breathtaking and leave me acknowledging that this view is correct.

Although i don't think May or the government are really part of this ploy (they are victims of patliamentry arithmetic) there are a large group of establishment remoaners in hoc with the speaker who are determined to thwart the wish of the people.

It is truly terrible to see our country at the mercy of this establishment.
The peasants should revolt and bring about London Riots 2.0 :mob:
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scorpion95
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#24
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#24
Yes they are trying to stop Brexit to a certain extent however as it currently stands we are leaving on the 29th on WTO rules regardless. They may have voted to say we can't have a 'no deal brexit' but that vote isn't legally binding so it is still defaulted for 'no deal'. They can't vote on the deal again for the third time till there has been a change with in the document. Which is unlikely to happen as the EU have said no more negotiation that deal is final and they won't allow an extension.

The government has just got to say we are leaving on WTO rules now so that there is certainty about what is happening so that business can adjust now rather than just keeping the uncertainty which they are currently doing which isn't good for anyone.
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Fullofsurprises
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#25
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#25
(Original post by Rakas21)
When people have talked about establishment ploys the last two years i have generally laughed this off however the events of this week were breathtaking and leave me acknowledging that this view is correct.

Although i don't think May or the government are really part of this ploy (they are victims of patliamentry arithmetic) there are a large group of establishment remoaners in hoc with the speaker who are determined to thwart the wish of the people.

It is truly terrible to see our country at the mercy of this establishment.
She is trying to bring the same proposition back to Parliament three times (or more) - this is totally against Parliamentary history and practise, as Mr Speaker has pointed out.

What is being asserted here is Parliamentary Sovereignty, the bedrock of Britain for many centuries and quite right too.
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Fullofsurprises
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#26
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#26
(Original post by scorpion95)
Yes they are trying to stop Brexit to a certain extent however as it currently stands we are leaving on the 29th on WTO rules regardless. They may have voted to say we can't have a 'no deal brexit' but that vote isn't legally binding so it is still defaulted for 'no deal'. They can't vote on the deal again for the third time till there has been a change with in the document. Which is unlikely to happen as the EU have said no more negotiation that deal is final and they won't allow an extension.

The government has just got to say we are leaving on WTO rules now so that there is certainty about what is happening so that business can adjust now rather than just keeping the uncertainty which they are currently doing which isn't good for anyone.
We aren't leaving on the 29th. It's now a certainty that Parliament will overrule the PM and demand a minimum one-year extension and very possibly it will end up being at least 2 years.
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scorpion95
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#27
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#27
We are leaving on the 29th as May hasn't gone back to the EU yet to ask for an extension. Also the EU has to unilaterally agreed to allow us to have an extension. Parliament can vote this and that but the EU dictates what we can and can't do which they all have to agree which I doubt they will as they have already said they aren't going to make any more changes to the deal, May can't put the deal to a vote again for the third time without changes being made to it so that is now dead in the water
(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
We aren't leaving on the 29th. It's now a certainty that Parliament will overrule the PM and demand a minimum one-year extension and very possibly it will end up being at least 2 years.
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mojojojo101
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#28
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#28
(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
We aren't leaving on the 29th. It's now a certainty that Parliament will overrule the PM and demand a minimum one-year extension and very possibly it will end up being at least 2 years.
They can demand all they like, it isn't up to them.

The British still haven't worked out theyarent just having an argument with themselves.

If the EU stick to what they have said, which they generally have done, then the EU will not ever an extension, they won't get a deal and will be dumped out on their arse just as they deserve.

This is why I don't really understand the Brexiter war on Bercow this morning, his perfectly sensible ruling has made a no deal Brexit more likely than ever.
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Burton Bridge
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#29
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#29
Not really it's highly unlikely the EU will allow a no deal Brexit, it would damage them, our politicians have commited traitor like traits in my eyes, the EU can milk us and they know it.

The worst possible outcome which will cause months of uncertainty and possible job losses.
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Tawheed
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#30
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#30
(Original post by SankaraInBloom)
Will just say that there was never any possibility of Britain getting a good deal - all sides were far too stubborn from the offset, something I admit begrudgingly as a Europhile Remainer.

However, No Deal isn't what Brexit meant. Brexit meant 17 million things to 17 million people - people knew what they were voting for, but they didn't all agree on the outcome. Really we should've held an STV referendum once the Leave vote happened to determine which form of Brexit occurred.
I voted for that 250million for the NHS. Turns out that was a lie.
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Rainfall
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#31
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#31
I hope so dear
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ColinDent
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#32
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#32
(Original post by Tawheed)
I voted for that 250million for the NHS. Turns out that was a lie.
Oh dear not this old chestnut again, it said on that bus " we send the EU £350 million a week, let's find our NHS instead" that does not necessarily mean all of it!
Also we are still currently sending said monies to the EU so currently cannot spend it on anything else.
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Burton Bridge
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#33
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#33
(Original post by Tawheed)
I voted for that 250million for the NHS. Turns out that was a lie.
I commend you're honest in admitting this, you are going to have to take this as a life lesson not to be so gullable my friend. Sensationalist political slogans are sad fact of life that mislead many people, they are everywhere.

"£350 million a week, let's fund our NHS instead"

I dismissed that in a few minutes in my head,

A) the wording is vague and meaningless

B) The sum of money is huge is it even possible, is that gross or net?

C) hard core Conservatives Capitalists tend not to like Socialism, Borris, ids, Gove have all put forward alternatives to scrap the NHS.

That was a few minutes thought in my head, don't be so gullable in future buddy, you live and learn.
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Tawheed
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#34
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#34
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
I commend you're honest in admitting this, you are going to have to take this as a life lesson not to be so gullable my friend. Sensationalist political slogans are sad fact of life that mislead many people, they are everywhere.

"£350 million a week, let's fund our NHS instead"

I dismissed that in a few minutes in my head,

A) the wording is vague and meaningless

B) The sum of money is huge is it even possible, is that gross or net?

C) hard core Conservatives Capitalists tend not to like Socialism, Borris, ids, Gove have all put forward alternatives to scrap the NHS.

That was a few minutes thought in my head, don't be so gullable in future buddy, you live and learn.
My reasons for voting to leave were a little bit more thought out, but i felt that slogan epitomised all of the false promises that were made.

In truth, i didn't give the vote as much thought as i could have, and was taken in by arguments from the left which argued that many of the changes needed for social equality in the UK were hampered by EU law - names like Galloway come to mind, and even Corbyn back in the day.

Deep down i didn't actually feel we would win, but in hindsight i should have given it far more thought, absolutely. One lesson is that anti-establishment does not equal closer to the truth.
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Fullofsurprises
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#35
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#35
(Original post by mojojojo101)
If the EU stick to what they have said, which they generally have done, then the EU will not ever an extension, they won't get a deal and will be dumped out on their arse just as they deserve.
Sigh, it won't be them being dumped on their backsides. It will be us. This simple fact is hard to get across, but we will all get to experience it, sadly. The only trouble is, by then it will be too late. A heavy price to pay because of annoyance about immigrants.
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