Can someone 'objectively' explain why leaving the EU is a bad decision? Watch

bloomer36
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#21
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#21
(Original post by HoldThisL)
It's not.
I was obviously directing the question to people that think it is.
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Notnek
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(Original post by bloomer36)
It seems that this is the view of the majority of remainers, though. They are always accusing leavers of being racist.
I don't think it's the majority of remainers. Maybe just the remainers that shout the loudest?
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WhatIsLife1
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#23
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(Original post by bloomer36)
Although I don't know much/enough about Brexit, I do agree with what you're saying here.

But I want to know this - why are leavers seen as racist/'far-right' by remainers, simply for wanting stricter/more secure borders?
I don’t view brexiteers as racist/far right, but I do take issue with the border issues. Immigrants/Immigration is a scapegoat. Immigrants have a net contribution to our economy. We need workers for the work Brits don’t want to do, such as fruit picking. Leaving the EU would do little to stop a person hiding in the back of a truck.
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bloomer36
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#24
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#24
(Original post by Notnek)
I don't think it's the majority of remainers. Maybe just the remainers that shout the loudest?
Hmm, I think you're probably right. I think it's just the remainers that talk about being remainers. The rest of the remainers probably don't care about any of this. They just voted and that's it.
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De Minimis
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#25
(Original post by bloomer36)
Although I don't know much/enough about Brexit, I do agree with what you're saying here.

But I want to know this - why are leavers seen as racist/'far-right' by remainers, simply for wanting stricter/more secure borders?
Because sadly, the vast majority of racists (if not all) supported Brexit. That is NOT to say all Leavers are racist (far from it) but it is a fairly self-evident truth. Indeed, it was a key consideration for some people I know who favoured Leave but were concerned with being associated with racists.

BTW, I find the "control of our borders" argument to be a little odd given the fact we already have control of them (i.e. we have passport control at borders and we're not in Schengen). Illegal immigration will continue to be an issue, regardless of whether we're in the EU or not.
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bloomer36
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#26
(Original post by RatRaceEscapee2)
For example, if put in order for 20tons of PVA, let's say from Germany, I will have by my doors tomorrow around 4PM, like a clockwork. This means that I do not have to overstock.
After Brexit the UKBA procedure may take anywhere from 3 days to 5 weeks. This means that from now I have to stock 5 weeks worth of material, this will lock in about $4M, in safety stock, for our company it means the same as losing millions. Also, we do not have the storage capacity so all the extra stock has to be in a third party warehouse, that's £4 per pallet per week, that adds up to £60,000 year just in storage fees plus £600 per drop from the third party warehouse to our factory. That's another about £50,000/year. Plus insurance premium...

Another thing when a "refugee" makes it into a truck and gets caught on the French side they just throw him away and let the truck go, now there will be a full investigation, human trafficking act, etc. that can delay the delivery by several months.

What I just described is probably the simplest and cheapest problem for us. Also if your company deals with perishable goods, you are fuc...
Hmm makes sense why this would be a really frustrating issue
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bloomer36
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#27
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#27
(Original post by WhatIsLife1)
I don’t view brexiteers as racist/far right, but I do take issue with the border issues. Immigrants/Immigration is a scapegoat. Immigrants have a net contribution to our economy. We need workers for the work Brits don’t want to do, such as fruit picking. Leaving the EU would do little to stop a person hiding in the back of a truck.
I agree, but what about the immigrants that come here to live on benefits?
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bloomer36
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#28
(Original post by De Minimis)
Because sadly, the vast majority of racists (if not all) supported Brexit. That is NOT to say all Leavers are racist (far from it)
I think what you say here is a very important distinction that needs to be recognised. Because what's happening is all leavers are being labelled as racist, simply because the majority of racists in the country probably did vote leave.
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RatRaceEscapee2
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(Original post by bloomer36)
I agree, but what about the immigrants that come here to live on benefits?
I am from the "EU". I am "stealing jobs" in the UK for about 10 years now. I have never met anyone who came in here with the idea of living on benefits. As far as I know, JSA is somewhere around 70/week, why would you do that? Who does that? Also, You have to work in the UK for at least 5 years to be entitled to 6 months of benefits... like WTF...
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WhatIsLife1
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#30
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#30
(Original post by bloomer36)
I agree, but what about the immigrants that come here to live on benefits?
A minority. No reason to make life harder for the majority of immigrants who want to come to work, for the sake of preventing a select few abusing the system.
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bloomer36
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#31
(Original post by WhatIsLife1)
A minority.
Not sure about that. Need to do more research on this, but it seems like there are quite a lot of immigrants on benefits to me. Idk, though.
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bloomer36
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#32
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(Original post by RatRaceEscapee2)
I am from the "EU". I am "stealing jobs" in the UK for about 10 years now. I have never met anyone who came in here with the idea of living on benefits. As far as I know, JSA is somewhere around 70/week, why would you do that? Who does that? Also, You have to work in the UK for at least 5 years to be entitled to 6 months of benefits... like WTF...
I've noticed that it's not the EU immigrants that come here to live on benefits. Europeans work hard to earn their money. It's mostly non-Europeans, from what I've observed.
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De Minimis
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#33
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#33
(Original post by bloomer36)
I agree, but what about the immigrants that come here to live on benefits?
It's been objectively proven that immigrants generally contribute more to the economy than they take out in welfare state provisions (such as benefits):

https://www.ft.com/content/c49043a8-...5hsiZ0I9dFnokg
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bloomer36
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#34
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(Original post by De Minimis)
It's been objectively proven that immigrants generally contribute more to the economy than they take out in welfare state provisions (such as benefits):

https://www.ft.com/content/c49043a8-...5hsiZ0I9dFnokg
Hmm, thanks for this. So then why do Leavers want less immigration? Of course, no one wants illegal immigration, but what's wrong with immigration in general? Why is this something that worries the people that voted Leave? Before the referendum, were they promised less illegal immigration, or less immigration in general?
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Dez
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(Original post by bloomer36)
Not sure about that. Need to do more research on this, but it seems like there are quite a lot of immigrants on benefits to me. Idk, though.
This is just a myth. We already have exceptions to EU rules that means the UK does not need to pay benefits to EU migrants.
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Doones
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#36
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#36
(Original post by bloomer36)
Because what's happening is all leavers are being labelled as racist
Except they aren't.
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username4548094
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#37
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(Original post by Dez)
This is just a myth. We already have exceptions to EU rules that means the UK does not need to pay benefits to EU migrants.
What about the ones who have come over here and subsequently been afflicted with a mental health illness, for which the NHS is required to provide assistance? Surely those individuals would have to be supported financially?
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De Minimis
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(Original post by bloomer36)
Hmm, thanks for this. So then why do Leavers want less immigration? Of course, no one wants illegal immigration, but what's wrong with immigration in general? Why is this something that worries the people that voted Leave? Before the referendum, were they promised less illegal immigration, or less immigration in general?
A few reasons from what I can tell. The main ones that tend to get pushed are:

1) Immigration has a negative effective on wages for domestic workers - i.e. wage depreciation is due to immigrants being willing to accept low wages hence pushing down wages overall. It should be noted that there's very little evidence to confirm this (i.e. no major research study has concluded this).

2) Issues of integration - Many Leavers feel that British culture is being diluted by immigrants settling in the UK and bringing their culture with them while not adopting British cultural values. This, however, is a matter of perception and while there are issues of integration in some parts of the country, most people are at ease with living within a multicultural society.

It's also important to distinguish between EU and non-EU immigration when talking about immigration in this context. EU immigration falls within the freedom of movement framework while non-EU immigration is subject to standard immigration rules. Although people may bemoan current levels of immigration, non-EU immigration has outpaced EU immigration for the last few decades hence leaving the EU to reduced immigration may not even result in the desired level of change to the overall [immigration] statistics.
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Dez
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(Original post by 150319)
What about the ones who have come over here and subsequently been afflicted with a mental health illness, for which the NHS is required to provide assistance? Surely those individuals would have to be supported financially?
Currently there is a reciprocal agreement between EEA+Switzerland, so a Briton in France has the same medical access as a local citizen, same as a French citizen visiting the UK. The agreement can be seen as a way of supporting both freedom of movement and tourism.
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Chakede
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#40
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#40
(Original post by bloomer36)
Although I don't know much/enough about Brexit, I do agree with what you're saying here.

But I want to know this - why are leavers seen as racist/'far-right' by remainers, simply for wanting stricter/more secure borders?
its not because most just want better border control ( plenty of black brown white ppl here want that ) its th atypical brexiteer seems to ascribe to the whole xenophobia ethos - their view toward foreigners ( mainly non-white) is perverted and it has found a 'legitimate' outlet in the Brexit vote.

so brexiteers don't understand ( or care) about the bigger picture of separating from the eu
as a pro EU remianer I will say the EUs handnling of the migrant crisis and inability to patrol eu member waters to bring someo rder was idiotic and in part playing into nigel farages hands
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