Are some left wing people exploiting the Christchurch massacre? Watch

karl pilkington
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Some of them seem to even be taking relish out of the attack and have a kind of I told you so attitude or a certain smugness which is inappropriate and kind of distasteful. These include Brendan Cox Owen Jones Mike Stuchberry etc They have no right to blame right wing people as a whole for this.
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Tawheed
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Just because some right-wing terrorists massacre Muslims and Jews doesn't mean they're all terrorists.
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karl pilkington
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(Original post by Tawheed)
Just because some right-wing terrorists massacre Muslims and Jews doesn't mean their all terrorists.
That didn't make any sense. *they're
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ecolier
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No. Stop politicising everything and let us mourn those who lost their lives.
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BlueIndigoViolet
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Politicians are scavengers, if it furthers their cause, its great for them...

I agree the focus should be on making sure that this does not happen again, e.g. he was not even on a watchlist, and mourning for all the people this world has lost, cant get my head around such an act, the very scum of our one human race.
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RuneFreeze
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As a leftwinger I‘m happy to concede that the rather triumphalist smug attitude from people like Owen Jones (who I in fact quite like) is a bit unpleasant.However, I owould posit that the converse is true, and to a much greater degree. There is *much* more agonising over Islam and Muslims after an islamist attack then there is after a far right attack.
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karl pilkington
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(Original post by ecolier)
No. Stop politicising everything and let us mourn those who lost their lives.
Yes that is exactly my point they are politicising it when most people are just horrified by the deaths of innocent people.
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viddy9
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(Original post by karl pilkington)
Some of them seem to even be taking relish out of the attack and have a kind of I told you so attitude or a certain smugness which is inappropriate and kind of distasteful. These include Brendan Cox Owen Jones Mike Stuchberry etc They have no right to blame right wing people as a whole for this.
They do have a right to blame those who constantly spread lies about Muslims, and who continually obfuscate and attempt to deny the reality of anti-Muslim bigotry. In fact, we should all denounce these people. Unfortunately, in some cases, the people and media outlets who do these things are "mainstream".

I've just been looking through Brendan Cox's tweets. What, exactly, has he said which makes you think he is taking "relish out of the attack"?
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angelinahx
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(Original post by karl pilkington)
Some of them seem to even be taking relish out of the attack and have a kind of I told you so attitude or a certain smugness which is inappropriate and kind of distasteful. These include Brendan Cox Owen Jones Mike Stuchberry etc They have no right to blame right wing people as a whole for this.
You mean - in the same way right wing activists exploit Jihadi terrorist attacks to generalize and spew hate to Muslims?
The hypocrisy.
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karl pilkington
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(Original post by angelinahx)
You mean - in the same way right wing activists exploit Jihadi terrorist attacks to generalize and spew hate to Muslims?
The hypocrisy.
Yeah exactly I condemn both unequivocally but why are both not seen as the same thing?
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karl pilkington
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(Original post by viddy9)
They do have a right to blame those who constantly spread lies about Muslims, and who continually obfuscate and attempt to deny the reality of anti-Muslim bigotry. In fact, we should all denounce these people. Unfortunately, in some cases, the people and media outlets who do these things are "mainstream".

I've just been looking through Brendan Cox's tweets. What, exactly, has he said which makes you think he is taking "relish out of the attack"?
They don't have the right to blame anyone other than the attacker. The attacker said his justification was mass immigration into western countries by Muslims so if anything left wing people are more to blame than right wing people but that is kind of nonsense it is nonsense to start blaming people who are critical of Islam. Brendan Cox hasn't tweeted hardly at all and then tweets dozens of tweets over one attack. Also right wing facists are not the same as Muslims fundamentalists. When there is an attack Choudry etc make excuses for it but Tommy Robinson always condemns it unequivocally. Also people who are on the right have always denounced violence.
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karl pilkington
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Trotsky's Iceaxe
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(Original post by karl pilkington)
Yes that is exactly my point they are politicising it when most people are just horrified by the deaths of innocent people.
Terrorism is an inherently political event. You can't depoliticise it. This man engaged in an act of violence because he was motivated by a political ideology.

They have no right to blame right wing people as a whole for this.
I haven't seen any whole scale blaming of the right for this, but I've seen plenty blaming the far right. To say that such poisonous ideology is not involved is like saying a man who swears loyalty to ISIS before crashing a vehicle into a crowd of innocent people is not motivated by Islamic fundamentalism.

Brendan Cox
This was Brendan Cox's response to yesterday's events....

https://twitter.com/MrBrendanCox/sta...95614882381824

Can you explain how this qualifies as smug, distasteful or inappropriate?

In fact his response seems remarkably calm and reasonable given that a denigrate holding similar views to Brenton Tarrant murdered his wife.
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karl pilkington
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(Original post by Trotsky's Iceaxe)
Terrorism is an inherently political event. You can't depoliticise it. This man engaged in an act of violence because he was motivated by a political ideology.



I haven't seen any whole scale blaming of the right for this, but I've seen plenty blaming the far right. To say that such poisonous ideology is not involved is like saying a man who swears loyalty to ISIS before crashing a vehicle into a crowd of innocent people is not motivated by Islamic fundamentalism.



This was Brendan Cox's response to yesterday's events....

https://twitter.com/MrBrendanCox/sta...95614882381824

Can you explain how this qualifies as smug, distasteful or inappropriate?

In fact his response seems remarkably calm and reasonable given that a denigrate holding similar views to Brenton Tarrant murdered his wife.
When people carry out Islamic terrorist attacks we are told it has nothing to do with Islam. You are right that terrorism is a political act which is why I said earlier if you read his manifesto he mentions mass immigration and Islamic takeover as a reason. He also mentions other Islamic terror attacks so if anything this is a reactive attack ie reacting to Islamic terrorism itself. When I said he takes relish what I meant is whenever there is a Muslim attack that is exactly what they say about right wing people (as in that we take relish in Islamic attacks) .

'7) and finally, remember that these terrorists are a tiny number of extremists, they don’t represent anyone but themselves. Cherish the fact that we have more in common than that which divides us and take time to celebrate it. ' = written by Brendan Cox

Why did he write this tweet when he will go on to tarnish right wing people as being to blame for it.
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Trotsky's Iceaxe
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(Original post by karl pilkington)
When people carry out Islamic terrorist attacks we are told it has nothing to do with Islam. You are right that terrorism is a political act which is why I said earlier if you read his manifesto he mentions mass immigration and Islamic takeover as a reason he also mentions other Islamic terror attacks so if anything this is a reactive attack ie reacting to Islamic terrorism itself. When I said he takes relish what I meant is whenever there is a Muslim attack that is exactly what they say about right wing people.

7) and finally, remember that these terrorists are a tiny number of extremists, they don’t represent anyone but themselves. Cherish the fact that we have more in common than that which divides us and take time to celebrate it.

Why did he right this tweet when he will go on to tarnish right wing people as being to blame for it.
This is just incoherent.
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generallee
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(Original post by viddy9)
They do have a right to blame those who constantly spread lies about Muslims, and who continually obfuscate and attempt to deny the reality of anti-Muslim bigotry. In fact, we should all denounce these people. Unfortunately, in some cases, the people and media outlets who do these things are "mainstream".
What cases are you thinking of?
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viddy9
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Your entire post is just partisan bilge. You're so obsessed with left vs. right that you won't stop to think for even a second.

(Original post by karl pilkington)
They don't have the right to blame anyone other than the attacker. The attacker said his justification was mass immigration into western countries by Muslims so if anything left wing people are more to blame than right wing people but that is kind of nonsense it is nonsense to start blaming people who are critical of Islam.
I've already explained, in another thread, why this is false. You failed to respond.

(Original post by karl pilkington)
Brendan Cox hasn't tweeted hardly at all and then tweets dozens of tweets over one attack.
He sent out a number of tweets because they are part of a thread. You evidently don't know that tweets have character limits. It was also a terrorist attack, so of course he tweeted about it. This is not out of the ordinary.

(Original post by karl pilkington)
Also right wing facists are not the same as Muslims fundamentalists. When there is an attack Choudry etc make excuses for it but Tommy Robinson always condemns it unequivocally.
There are plenty of far-right people who have condoned the attack and engaged in apologetics for it, including the Australian Senator Fraser Anning.

(Original post by karl pilkington)
When people carry out Islamic terrorist attacks we are told it has nothing to do with Islam. You are right that terrorism is a political act which is why I said earlier if you read his manifesto he mentions mass immigration and Islamic takeover as a reason.
Stop appealing to hypocrisy in every other sentence. The political ideology behind this terrorist attack was a far-right ideology. Nothing more, nothing less. The guy is a white nationalist. He believes that innocent Muslims are responsible for the crimes of people who claim to act in the name of Islam. He believes that the appropriate response to so-called "mass immigration" is to murder innocent people. That's the political ideology. He's not doing this because he supports mass immigration and so-called "Islamic takeover".

This really isn't difficult. When Hamas fires rockets into Tel Aviv, the ideology underlying it, first and foremost, is that which says that "all Israelis and all Jews should be attacked for some real or perceived crime of the State of Israel".

(Original post by karl pilkington)
'7) and finally, remember that these terrorists are a tiny number of extremists, they don’t represent anyone but themselves. Cherish the fact that we have more in common than that which divides us and take time to celebrate it. ' = written by Brendan Cox

Why did he write this tweet when he will go on to tarnish right wing people as being to blame for it.
Maybe because he believes the tweet? Where's the evidence that he's going to "tarnish" right-wing people?

You people really are the most whiny crybabies in politics today. The paranoia is insane. Every single post contains something along the lines of "well the left said X, so why can't I say Y?" or "the left is TARNISHING me as racist" or "the left thinks I am taking RELISH in the attack".

You are obsessed with "the left", aren't you? I suggest you stop commenting on politics and current affairs. Clearly, the left are persecuting you, and it's getting unbearable for you. Why don't you go and read some books instead - history, literature, science - and calm yourself down.
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ByEeek
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(Original post by karl pilkington)
Yes that is exactly my point they are politicising it when most people are just horrified by the deaths of innocent people.
But it is a political issue. Already the NZ PM has said gun laws are to change. And questions of how and why rightly need to be debated.

I would agree that it is perhaps a little too soon though.
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generallee
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People are making political capital out of this, for sure. That is the way of things.

There are opportunities still to be grasped, however. I noticed that the terrorist supported Brexit.

Why on earth haven't the Remainers jumped on this to point out how the Brexit vote caused this carnage??

Falling down on the job, Anna and Dominic, falling down on the job...
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tazarooni89
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I don’t think it’s fair to say that the blame for this attack, or any attack for that matter, lies solely and squarely with the individual attacker.

We must recognise that human beings are not as capable of independent thought as we like to believe. Our views are not formed in a vacuum; all of us are subject to influence.

If you (yes, you) had lived in the USA 100 years ago, you would probably have been a racist. If you had lived in Germany in the 1930s, you would have probably thought that killing Jews was a good idea. If you were born to Muslim parents, you would probably be praying in a mosque every Friday too. You may not have those kinds of views in actual fact, but much of the credit for that is due to the environment you’ve been brought up in.


In the modern world, we have an environment where it’s becoming easier, and increasingly socially acceptable to espouse the sorts of views this attacker held.

Even though he is relatively unique in that he was willing to take up arms and act upon those views (for which we can only blame him personally), there is no shortage of people who are ideologically in complete agreement with him. And they are not just “evil monsters” who are just naturally like that. They are impressionable human beings who have been made that way.


Hitler didn’t just wake up one day and decide to slaughter millions of Jews. Rather, every time he opened his mouth, bit by bit he desensitised people to the rhetoric that they were foreign invaders, and obscured from them the reality that they are normal people just like you and I, going about their daily lives. And in the present day, every time someone like Geert Wilders, Marine Le Pen, Nigel Farage, Donald Trump, Anjem Choudary, Fox News etc. open their mouths, they’re doing exactly the same thing: reinforcing the idea that it’s “us and them”.

Obviously this does not absolve the attacker himself from his crimes. Most other people, even on the far-right, manage to not go round shooting up mosques etc. so he has no excuse for what he has done. He deserves to pay for it with a lifetime behind bars at the very least. However, I don’t think we should be turning a blind eye to the shifts in politics, media and rhetoric that are adding fuel to the fire.
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