Should we be thankful to America for the demise of the Isis caliphate? Watch

DrMikeHuntHertz
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#21
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#21
US and its allies played a bigger role in the rise of ISIS than the fall by a wide margin.
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NJA
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#22
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#22
(Original post by DrMikeHuntHertz)
US and its allies played a bigger role in the rise of ISIS than the fall by a wide margin.
So ISIS is a political movement in response to a World power rather than a religious one in response to a God?
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GetGradenines
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#23
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(Original post by NJA)
So ISIS is ayes political movement in response to a World power rather than a religious one in response to a God?
yes
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Underscore__
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#24
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Trump was president when it happened so no because everything that happens on his watch is bad
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Tempest II
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#25
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(Original post by DrMikeHuntHertz)
US and its allies played a bigger role in the rise of ISIS than the fall by a wide margin.
While I agree with premise that, without the 2003 invasion of Iraq, Daesh in its current format probably wouldn't have existed, the Arab Spring circa 2011 would have happened regardless. Islamic militant groups would have formed in Syria and/or Iraq against both the Assad and Saddam because of the anger against their regimes. Iraq, due to being a majority Shia nation under minority Sunni rule would likely have been a bloodbath seeing as Middle Eastern dictators don't exactly have a history of going quietly. Obviously, that does mean invading Iraq was the right thing to do but it's worth maintaining an overview of the background of Iraq - maybe would be better being split into several smaller nations.

In regards to who has done the most to combat Daesh on the ground then that definitely goes to the Kurds - with Western SF support I'm not sure Western public opinion could have ever supported American or British regular forces on the ground though. In the air then you'd be hard pressed to argue that the Americans didn't do the majority of the heavy lifting ( I can't find a recent number of how many air strikes have been carried out unfortunately).
It's unlikely Baghdad would have fallen in 2014 even without Western support arriving due to the sheer number of Shias in that area - Iraq's Shiite Ayatollah and clerics mustered thousands of followers around the capital to defend it. But, until this point, the Iraqi Army had been borderline useless. If anything, all they did is provide Daesh with more equipment which they abandoned in their retreat.
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Wōden
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#26
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#26
(Original post by NJA)
It was causing a lot of death and suffering to men women and children and infrastructure and archaeological sites such as palmira) would have carried on growing without US military intervention.

Or, do you believe they were just cleaning up the mess they created and testing out their new smart weapons in the process?

Would IS have arisen and done the same thing anyway?
There is no denying that American foreign policy (and that of other Western powers, including Britain) and their direct support of dubious 'rebel' forces attempting to overthrow the Assad regime, helped facilitate the rise of ISIS. It's quite rich indeed for them to now pat themselves on the back for helping to mop up the mess they had a hand in creating. Most of the credit for wiping out ISIS should really go to the Syrian government and their Russian and Iranian allies (though none of them are exactly angels in all of this either).
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Palmyra
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#27
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No. $500 million in military aid to "rebel" groups that then beheaded 10-year-old kids prolonged the conflict and made it far bloodier.

It was Syria (including Syrian Kurds), Russia and Iran that did the vast majority of the work in destroying ISIS.

The U.S. did a great job in razing Raqqa to the ground Dresden-style, though.
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Palmyra
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#28
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(Original post by Tempest II)
It's unlikely Baghdad would have fallen in 2014 even without Western support arriving due to the sheer number of Shias in that area - Iraq's Shiite Ayatollah and clerics mustered thousands of followers around the capital to defend it. But, until this point, the Iraqi Army had been borderline useless. If anything, all they did is provide Daesh with more equipment which they abandoned in their retreat.
And remind us which world power took it upon themselves to totally destroy and dismantle the Iraqi Army, then rebuild it from the ground up?
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Palmyra
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#29
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The U.S.'s brutal and inhumane tactics in their illegal attacks on Syrian territory were so beyond the pale that a top French officer gave a scathing rebuke to apologists: "We have massively destroyed the infrastructure and given the population a disgusting image of what may be a Western-style liberation leaving behind the seeds of an imminent resurgence of a new adversary".

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-g...-idUSKCN1Q50LZ
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Palmyra
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#30
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Raqqa post-U.S. "liberation":

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