MPs take control over Brexit 😲

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TensorTympani
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MPs are to back MPs taking control over Brexit to stop Theresa May from making a mess out of it.
Options on the votes include, as the speaker has announced:
- No-deal
- Common market
- EFTA
- Customs unions and free border
- Labour's plan
- People's vote
- Cancel Brexit
Last edited by TensorTympani; 1 year ago
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Doones
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(Original post by TensorTympani)
MPs are to back MPs taking control over Brexit to stop Theresa May from making a mess out of it.
Indicatively.

Actually I was expecting an OP with a list of the different motions being voted on tonight... :beard:

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ByEeek
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Not really. MPs have taken control of parliament briefly. Most of the options from what I can see are unobtainable. You can vote for a magic money tree but it doesn't mean you are going to get it. Europe's position is quite clear and these votes change nothing.
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by ByEeek)
Not really. MPs have taken control of parliament briefly. Most of the options from what I can see are unobtainable. You can vote for a magic money tree but it doesn't mean you are going to get it. Europe's position is quite clear and these votes change nothing.
For once mate we agree on a Brexit issue, total madness why are we paying these people?
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ByEeek
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
For once mate we agree on a Brexit issue, total madness why are we paying these people?
Indeed we do agree, but not over what you just said. I think they are doing an excellent job and representing the people brilliantly. Remember, slightly more voted to leave than remain whilst the majority either didn't vote or were unable to vote. The impasse we see in Parliament is a perfect analogue of the views of from the population at large. If ever there was a Parliament reflecting "the will of the people", it is the one we currently have. e.g. - no one can agree on very much.

Since everyone will be affected (probably pretty negatively) by anything we do, is it not reasonable that we take time to get it right?
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by ByEeek)
Indeed we do agree, but not over what you just said. I think they are doing an excellent job and representing the people brilliantly. Remember, slightly more voted to leave than remain whilst the majority either didn't vote or were unable to vote. The impasse we see in Parliament is a perfect analogue of the views of from the population at large. If ever there was a Parliament reflecting "the will of the people", it is the one we currently have. e.g. - no one can agree on very much.

Since everyone will be affected (probably pretty negatively) by anything we do, is it not reasonable that we take time to get it right?
Well normal service resumes, that did not last long did it?

You are wrong, the majority of people did vote, those unable to vote are those not eligible to vote. The turn out for the EU in out referendum was very nearly record breaking. Please see the below copy paste

Based on a confirmed electorate of 46,500,001, turnout at the referendum was 72.2 percent," the watchdog said. In 1992 - the highwater mark for participation in recent general elections - a total of 33,614,074 people went to the ballot box - 72.3 per cent. The referendum narrowly missed beating that record.

Leave did not win a tiny amount, or a slight amount. it was a 1million 269 thousand 5 hundred and 1 people. That's about 2 times more than the amount that marched in London to revoke artical 50! Of course if it was a tiny amount, then the revoke article 50 March was a minuscule amount of people?
Last edited by Burton Bridge; 1 year ago
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ByEeek
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Based on a confirmed electorate of 46,500,001, turnout at the referendum was 72.2 percent," the watchdog said. In 1992 - the highwater mark for participation in recent general elections - a total of 33,614,074 people went to the ballot box - 72.3 per cent. The referendum narrowly missed beating that record.
Thanks for the figures. So out of a population 66 million, 33 million or around half voted. And of those just over half voted leave. I put that down as about 25% of all the people in the country. Given that Brexit (or not) will impact on every single person, it doesn't exactly fill me with joy that such a minority of people can make such massive decisions on the majority. I say - give 16 year-olds the vote. This affects them more than any of us and from the kids in my school, I would say they are more than mature enough to understand the issues and vote conscientiously.

You are also forgetting that of the electorate, not everyone is necessarily registered to vote. Also, the Ex-pats, e.g. British citizens abroad were prevented from voting which is rather unBritish in my view especially as Brexit affects many of them quite significantly.
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Doones
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Leave did not win a tiny amount, or a slight amount. it was a 1million 269 thousand 5 hundred and 1 people. That's about 2 times more than the amount that marched in London to revoke artical 50! Of course if it was a tiny amount, then the revoke article 50 March was a minuscule amount of people?
That's nonsensical.

Size, as always, is relative. Yes, Leave won, but *only* by 4%., that's not a huge amount no matter how you cut it.

And with size being relative, 300k (or 450k, or 1 million whatever) is huge compared to a max 200 on Farage's march. And let's see how many turn up for Nigel's "party" in Parliament Square tomorrow.

And for the petitions; Remain has 6 million, Leave (No Deal) has 600k. 10:1.

Size *is* relative.
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Andrew97
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It appears Parliament is very good at telling the government what they don’t want., but not what they do....
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Doones
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(Original post by Andrew97)
It appears Parliament is very good at telling the government what they don’t want., but not what they do....
It's not over - it was a 2 step exercise. A shortlist goes forward for voting on Monday and it is expected the abstentions will exercise their votes.

And this all depends on the (half a) WA MV3 vote tomorrow.
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username3883544
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(Original post by Andrew97)
It appears Parliament is very good at telling the government what they don’t want., but not what they do....
Maybe taking lessons from the DUP, whose members only ever say yes at their (traditional, not same-sex) wedding. A pity that the customs union proposal did not pass.
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Trinculo
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(Original post by ByEeek)
Not really. MPs have taken control of parliament briefly. Most of the options from what I can see are unobtainable. You can vote for a magic money tree but it doesn't mean you are going to get it. Europe's position is quite clear and these votes change nothing.
(Original post by TensorTympani)
MPs are to back MPs taking control over Brexit to stop Theresa May from making a mess out of it.
Options on the votes include, as the speaker has announced:
- No-deal
- Common market
- EFTA
- Customs unions and free border
- Labour's plan
- People's vote
- Cancel Brexit
MPs "take control".

Every vote fails.

On what planet have they taken control?

Every single tactic by remainers from the MPs to the Speaker to Gina Miller have achieved nothing, except to delay Brexit and cause chaos.

The reason we are where we are now, with this image of chaos and indecision is purely down to those who have done everything they can to wreck Brexit.
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by Doones)
That's nonsensical.

Size, as always, is relative. Yes, Leave won, but *only* by 4%., that's not a huge amount no matter how you cut it.

And with size being relative, 300k (or 450k, or 1 million whatever) is huge compared to a max 200 on Farage's march. And let's see how many turn up for Nigel's "party" in Parliament Square tomorrow.

And for the petitions; Remain has 6 million, Leave (No Deal) has 600k. 10:1.

Size *is* relative.
Don't twist what I'm saying.

1.2 million is not a tiny amount of people, do you think it is?
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by ByEeek)
Thanks for the figures. So out of a population 66 million, 33 million or around half voted. And of those just over half voted leave. I put that down as about 25% of all the people in the country. Given that Brexit (or not) will impact on every single person, it doesn't exactly fill me with joy that such a minority of people can make such massive decisions on the majority. I say - give 16 year-olds the vote. This affects them more than any of us and from the kids in my school, I would say they are more than mature enough to understand the issues and vote conscientiously.

You are also forgetting that of the electorate, not everyone is necessarily registered to vote. Also, the Ex-pats, e.g. British citizens abroad were prevented from voting which is rather unBritish in my view especially as Brexit affects many of them quite significantly.
That's a ridiculous argument, hold that thought I'm off to bed but I'll be back on that mate
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B0sley
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If they cancel Brexit that is the worst option, as we will still be under the EU's 4th cuckhold Reich.
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Doones
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Don't twist what I'm saying.

1.2 million is not a tiny amount of people, do you think it is?
Relative to 16 or 17 million, yes it is. You can't take things out of context like that.
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by Doones)
Relative to 16 or 17 million, yes it is. You can't take things out of context like that.
Thank you and I hear that. However I think it's time we reflect on the context of the conversation between myself and ByEeek.

(Original post by ByEeek)
I think they are doing an excellent job and representing the people brilliantly. Remember, slightly more voted to leave than remain whilst the majority either didn't vote or were unable to vote. The impasse we see in Parliament is a perfect analogue of the views of from the population at large. If ever there was a Parliament reflecting "the will of the people", it is the one we currently have. e.g. - no one can agree on very much.
To which my reply was

(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Well normal service resumes, that did not last long did it?

You are wrong, the majority of people did vote, those unable to vote are those not eligible to vote. The turn out for the EU in out referendum was very nearly record breaking. Please see the below copy paste

Based on a confirmed electorate of 46,500,001, turnout at the referendum was 72.2 percent," the watchdog said. In 1992 - the highwater mark for participation in recent general elections - a total of 33,614,074 people went to the ballot box - 72.3 per cent. The referendum narrowly missed beating that record.

Leave did not win a tiny amount, or a slight amount. it was a 1million 269 thousand 5 hundred and 1 people. That's about 2 times more than the amount that marched in London to revoke artical 50! Of course if it was a tiny amount, then the revoke article 50 March was a minuscule amount of people?

So therefore the measuring stick is the 17. 4 million people who voted Leave not the entire population of the country which includes people not eligible for votes based on the rules of our democracy.

I always admire people's determination to dismiss referenda, one of the few things we agree on Doones is referendums are broken and don't work.

Therefore my point to ByEeek with the petition is if he is going to willfully quote misleading figures to suit his arugement, then so will I!

*edit to make sense*
Last edited by Burton Bridge; 1 year ago
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ByEeek
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(Original post by Trinculo)
MPs "take control".

Every vote fails.

On what planet have they taken control?

Every single tactic by remainers from the MPs to the Speaker to Gina Miller have achieved nothing, except to delay Brexit and cause chaos.

The reason we are where we are now, with this image of chaos and indecision is purely down to those who have done everything they can to wreck Brexit.
How did they take control? Well they got their way, messed about for a day and achieved nothing. Take control does not mean you are doing to achieve anything. Have you never watched The Apprentice?
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ByEeek
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Thank you and I hear that. However I think it's time we reflect on the context of the conversation between myself and ByEeek.



To which my reply was




So therefore the measuring stick is the 17. 4 million people who voted Leave not the entire population of the country which includes people not eligible for votes based on the rules of our democracy.

I always admire people's determination to dismiss referenda, one of the few things we agree on Doones is referendums are broken and don't work.

Therefore my point to ByEeek with the petition is if he is going to willfully quote misleading figures to suit his arugement, then so will I!

*edit to make sense*
I am not dismissing the referendum. I'm more than happy with the result. But given that MPs represent the whole electorate and not just those who voted leave it is no surprise to me that on average MPs have voted down all options. A democratic system represents all views, referendums or not. The referendum was advisory. It does not automatically mean law. And one should not pass laws without checks and balances. Such a system that does is called a dictatorship.

The problem we face is that democracy is very good at making small incremental changes that gradually make things better. Democracy in this country is excellent which is why we enjoy a high standard of living. Democracy is not good at trying to make techtonic changes as we and the US are discovering. If you want revolution you need to bring down the government by force.
Last edited by ByEeek; 1 year ago
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