Channel 4 apologises for Jon Snow's "white people" remark Watch

QE2
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#61
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#61
(Original post by TimmonaPortella)
People who didn't vote are irrelevant. They have removed themselves from the decision making process.
Your point is irrelevant to the issue of who voted Leave. The claim that "The People" voted Leave is demonstrably false.
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TimmonaPortella
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#62
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#62
(Original post by QE2)
Your point is irrelevant to the issue of who voted Leave.
I suppose, in the literal sense of which individuals actually cast their ballots.

The claim that "The People" voted Leave is demonstrably false.
Not so.

The view of "The People" was expressed through the mechanism of the referendum. That mechanism produced a majority result in favour of leave. Again, for that purpose, people who didn't vote don't matter. That they have chosen to remove themselves from the mechanism by which the view of The People was to be ascertained does not cast any doubt as to the legitimacy or validity of that mechanism for that purpose.

The only way in which a democracy can actually function is by treating the decision of those who actually participate as determinative of the view of The People for the relevant purpose. The system simply cannot operate on the basis of guesswork as to the views of people who did not care to proffer an opinion when the decision needed to be made.
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QE2
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(Original post by TimmonaPortella)
The view of "The People" was expressed through the mechanism of the referendum. That mechanism produced a majority result in favour of leave. Again, for that purpose, people who didn't vote don't matter. That they have chosen to remove themselves from the mechanism by which the view of The People was to be ascertained does not cast any doubt as to the legitimacy or validity of that mechanism for that purpose.

The only way in which a democracy can actually function is by treating the decision of those who actually participate as determinative of the view of The People for the relevant purpose. The system simply cannot operate on the basis of guesswork as to the views of people who did not care to proffer an opinion when the decision needed to be made.
For the last time, I am not questioning the result of the referendum, I am questioning the claim that "the majority of the country" or "The People" voted Leave. They didn't.
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looloo2134
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#64
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Coming back to Mr Snow commit about people at the Leave march the first person I noticed on the news was a non-white gentleman dress in a suit of Union Jacks. Mr Snow commit is about Leave march show more his view about people on the march which of course he allowed to have but he works on channel 4 news and should be not be making a commit like white people.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...r-video-report
(Original post by QE2)
For the last time, I am not questioning the result of the referendum, I am questioning the claim that "the majority of the country" or "The People" voted Leave. They didn't.
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QE2
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(Original post by looloo2134)
Coming back to Mr Snow commit about people at the Leave march the first person I noticed on the news was a non-white gentleman dress in a suit of Union Jacks. Mr Snow commit is about Leave march show more his view about people on the march which of course he allowed to have but he works on channel 4 news and should be not be making a commit like white people.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...r-video-report
It was obvious that his comment was a disparaging remark aimed at the far-right element present that was voicing its support for Yaxley-Lennon and his ilk. I agree that national news should be balanced but that doesn't mean that they can't call a **** a ****.
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looloo2134
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There are plenty of non-white support of Yaxley-Lennon out there and some of them were watching his speech at the march. Mr Snow just made a mistake with his commit.
(Original post by QE2)
It was obvious that his comment was a disparaging remark aimed at the far-right element present that was voicing its support for Yaxley-Lennon and his ilk. I agree that national news should be balanced but that doesn't mean that they can't call a **** a ****.
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QE2
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(Original post by looloo2134)
There are plenty of non-white support of Yaxley-Lennon out there and some of them were watching his speech at the march. Mr Snow just made a mistake with his commit.
I've looked at images and video of the crowd and didn't spot any, so I'd appreciate links to the ones you've seen with "plenty of non-whites" in attendance.
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TimmonaPortella
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#68
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(Original post by QE2)
For the last time, I am not questioning the result of the referendum, I am questioning the claim that "the majority of the country" or "The People" voted Leave. They didn't.
The majority of the population did not vote Leave. "The People" did, as I explained quite clearly. I'll quote it in below if it helps you.

Since we're asking questions here, I would question the point in your responding to posts without bothering to engage with what is actually said in them.

(Original post by TimmonaPortella)
The view of "The People" was expressed through the mechanism of the referendum. That mechanism produced a majority result in favour of leave. Again, for that purpose, people who didn't vote don't matter. That they have chosen to remove themselves from the mechanism by which the view of The People was to be ascertained does not cast any doubt as to the legitimacy or validity of that mechanism for that purpose.

The only way in which a democracy can actually function is by treating the decision of those who actually participate as determinative of the view of The People for the relevant purpose. The system simply cannot operate on the basis of guesswork as to the views of people who did not care to proffer an opinion when the decision needed to be made.
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QE2
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#69
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(Original post by TimmonaPortella)
The majority of the population did not vote Leave. "The People" did, as I explained quite clearly. I'll quote it in below if it helps you.

Since we're asking questions here, I would question the point in your responding to posts without bothering to engage with what is actually said in them.
With all due respect, you are the one not responding to what I am saying.
If you think that "The People of the UK" consists of the 17 million who voted Leave, you are sadly deluded.
Brexit is not "The Will of the People". That is just a platitude spouted by Brexiteers attempting to add weight to their flimsy arguments. It is merely "The Will of the People who Voted for It"

That is in no way claiming that Leave did not gain a majority in the vote, just that claiming Leave is "the will of the people" is obvious nonsense. Leavers can't even agree on what type of Brexit they are willing, so Brexit isn't even "The will of Leave voters"!
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BlueIndigoViolet
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#70
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saw the video he was watching, cant say im really offended/care, was an honest observation...
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TimmonaPortella
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#71
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(Original post by QE2)
If you think that "The People of the UK" consists of the 17 million who voted Leave, you are sadly deluded.
Yeah, that or I have a proper understanding of the process by which democracies actually function. One of those.
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QE2
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(Original post by BlueIndigoViolet)
saw the video he was watching, cant say im really offended/care, was an honest observation...
I think he was trying to avoid saying "Bunch of ****ing racists" live on air, and that was what came out.
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BlueIndigoViolet
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#73
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(Original post by QE2)
I think he was trying to avoid saying "Bunch of ****ing racists" live on air, and that was what came out.
cant bash him for thinking that personally... especially when it is true sometimes more so than the Remain side...
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moggis
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#74
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(Original post by QE2)
Not the majority, no. Just the ones who still insist that Brexit must happen, regardless.
Remember that only 17 million voted Leave, and some of those only did so on the basis of lies like the Bus of Mendacity. The population of the UK is over 60 million.
Perhaps "majority" doesn't mean what you think it means?
Just a small point . The people who will have voted leave based purely or mainly on the idea that they actually believed that either the NHS would get an almost immediate 17 billion cash injection or who would actually want the NHS to receive such a huge cash injection are very likely to have been in the 100s of 1000s at most in my opinion.
Especially since that particular lie really was debated at length during the campaign.
Many right wingers of course wouldnt want the NHS ,arguably one of the most wasteful organisations in the world ,to recieve anything like an extra 17 billion a year . Or at least not without significant change within it .
Thus the promise to give all that money to the NHS could if believed have put off some right wingers .
You may scoff at that but it would certainly have put me off voting leave if I ever voted . Not that I’m right wing mind .
But as I say I doubt many people actually believed that the NHS would even receive the net amount of our contributions and the bus ad never said the NHS would recieve that amount in any case .
Let’s fund our NHS instead . That could be any amount
Last edited by moggis; 2 weeks ago
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QE2
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(Original post by TimmonaPortella)
Yeah, that or I have a proper understanding of the process by which democracies actually function. One of those.
Accepting the result of a vote doesn't mean that it's what you want. "The will of the people" has nothing to do with democracy. It is a mere slogan.
Do you think that the privatisation of the NHS is "the will of the people"?

What do you think "The will of the people" actually means? I mean, define the words.
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Skidge
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#76
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Only people complaining are probably fat bald white men who also believe in 'International Father's Day'.
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moggis
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#77
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(Original post by QE2)
Oops, there you go again!
Slightly less than a third of the country voted Leave.
I'm sure it's just coincidence that Leavers seem to have the most difficulty dealing with reality. And numbers. An sometimes words.
Nope it’s not a coincidence. I have no doubt whatsoever that the average leave voter is less intelligent than the average remainer.
And many leave voters are just plain thick.
But it would have been very surprising indeed if that were not the case since the more intelligent someone is the greater their prospects or the more likely they are to have a good job.
Thus they have more to lose by taking a risk.
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moggis
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#78
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I don’t understand why racists would want us to leave the EU since it obviously means more immigration from the rest of the world .
In fact many racists will have voted remain because funnily enough some racists care about their children’s futures and their house price and their jobs.
But when they attend things such as the remain march they just blend in . No reason not to.
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looloo2134
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If you watch and look EDL some of the speakers are non-white mostly South Asia or of Caribbean descent and membership include people who are non-white.
(Original post by QE2)
I've looked at images and video of the crowd and didn't spot any, so I'd appreciate links to the ones you've seen with "plenty of non-whites" in attendance.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8002526.html
Last edited by looloo2134; 2 weeks ago
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QE2
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(Original post by looloo2134)
If you watch and look EDL some of the speakers are non-white mostly South Asia or of Caribbean descent and membership include people who are non-white.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8002526.html
Why are you linking an article from 2017 as evidence for "plenty of non-whites" at the Leave Means Leave event last week?
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