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Autistic spectrum condition

My son has recently been declined for the Army he has ASC which he shared at his interview and was told that's fine,once the medical notes were received he was told because of his diagnosis and previous earlier occasional aggression he was unfit to join.I have talked to a few people and they say that an appeal is a waste of time as the Army will not reconsider ,does anyone know anymore to help please

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Reply 1
Original post by Advice1919
My son has recently been declined for the Army he has ASC which he shared at his interview and was told that's fine,once the medical notes were received he was told because of his diagnosis and previous earlier occasional aggression he was unfit to join.I have talked to a few people and they say that an appeal is a waste of time as the Army will not reconsider ,does anyone know anymore to help please


There are old lists around which have any diagnosis on the ASD spectrum is a barrier for service.

Unless you can prove that the medical records are wrong, or the Army has made their decision on the wrong information, an appeal won't do anything.
Original post by Drewski
There are old lists around which have any diagnosis on the ASD spectrum is a barrier for service.

Unless you can prove that the medical records are wrong, or the Army has made their decision on the wrong information, an appeal won't do anything.

I understand where you are coming from, but in a way it's discrimination, and I can't believe it's still a sad fact of life in 2019 many people either still believe that autistic people shouldn't be a part of our society and should be put away in a segregated community with people 'of their own kind' and/or believe that they should be spoken to in the same way as elderly people with dementia get spoken to! :banghead:
Reply 3
As above, and bear in mind that whilst your son may manage day-to-day with no apparent issues, it does not mean he would cope with the military training and working environment. Some of these conditions are looked at on a case-by-case basis and an informed decision has been made using your son's medical records.
Reply 4
Original post by Unexpectedly
I understand where you are coming from, but in a way it's discrimination, and I can't believe it's still a sad fact of life in 2019 many people either still believe that autistic people shouldn't be a part of our society and should be put away in a segregated community with people 'of their own kind' and/or believe that they should be spoken to in the same way as elderly people with dementia get spoken to! :banghead:

It is discrimination, but it's the armed forces and different rules apply. They're actively allowed to discriminate.

The conditions one might encounter when serving in the military are so vastly different to those one might encounter working in, say, a corner shop, that it doesn't bare comparison.
First of all, I would like to say I am an avid advocate for equality and fairness across all situations and within all institutions. I myself is mildly autistic and understand Advice1919’s sadness in hearing the possibility of his son joining the Army, which he desires, is slim.

However, will all due respect @Unexpectedly, the Army (or the Navy or the Airforce or other sectors such as the roles of field agent at the MI6 or the MI5) arguably has a valid and justified reasoning as to why they would not allow only those who have autism who specifically shown some form of aggression previously to the application being made.

There may be a various reasons to this. I, myself could come up with three reasons.
1) Under an intense pressure, an aggression may be shown which could jeopardise the mission
2) An individual who has a record of aggression could potentially harm other soldiers, which may happen under several circumstances such as when one is under pressure or it could just happen spontaneously
3) it is in the best interest of the nation, it’s people, the soldiers, abd Advice1919’s son himself, to deny a place in the Army - for both safety concerns, and security reasons (including the possibility of exposing classified information and national secrets)

Furthermore, would you let an old sick citizen who is too weak to walk by him/herself unassisted? Would you let a serial killer join the army? Would you let a foreign national join the MI6? The answers are no, no, and no. The common sense and a careful analysis and forethought would say it is both a safety and a security risk in letting a weak elderly, a serial killer, an a wannabe-spy who is a foreign national join these civil service sectors. Is it a discrimination as suggested by @Unexpectedly? Yes. But it is a justified discrimination.

Autistic people can contribute to the society tremendously. They are people with rights too, you know. They are us. They have the ability to do things that ‘normal’ people cannot.

Einstein was autistic, Darwin was autistic and others like them were autistic too. Thus, they can still be part of our great society in other ways. They have the skills and the ability to contribute a great amount to the society for the better or for worse, just as ‘normal’ people can.

At the end of the day, people with autism can still join the army, in proving that they are fit to serve just like others.

Original post by Unexpectedly
I understand where you are coming from, but in a way it's discrimination, and I can't believe it's still a sad fact of life in 2019 many people either still believe that autistic people shouldn't be a part of our society and should be put away in a segregated community with people 'of their own kind' and/or believe that they should be spoken to in the same way as elderly people with dementia get spoken to! :banghead:
(edited 4 years ago)
Original post by Drewski
There are old lists around which have any diagnosis on the ASD spectrum is a barrier for service.

Unless you can prove that the medical records are wrong, or the Army has made their decision on the wrong information, an appeal won't do anything.

Just out of curiosity since I’m on the spectrum myself but is it just a blanket issue on being diagnosed at all or is it based on specific symptoms that you have shown?
Reply 7
Original post by Vikingninja
Just out of curiosity since I’m on the spectrum myself but is it just a blanket issue on being diagnosed at all or is it based on specific symptoms that you have shown?

I think it's blanket, but I'm not an authority on it.
Original post by The_WiseMan
First of all, I would like to say I am an avid advocate for equality and fairness across all situations and within all institutions. I myself is mildly autistic and understand Advice1919’s sadness in hearing the possibility of his son joining the Army, which he desires, is slim.

However, will all due respect @Unexpectedly, the Army (or the Navy or the Airforce or other sectors such as the roles of field agent at the MI6 or the MI5) arguably has a valid and justified reasoning as to why they would not allow only those who have autism who specifically shown some form of aggression previously to the application being made.

There may be a various reasons to this. I, myself could come up with three reasons.
1) Under an intense pressure, an aggression may be shown which could jeopardise the mission
2) An individual who has a record of aggression could potentially harm other soldiers, which may happen under several circumstances such as when one is under pressure or it could just happen spontaneously
3) it is in the best interest of the nation, it’s people, the soldiers, abd Advice1919’s son himself, to deny a place in the Army - for both safety concerns, and security reasons (including the possibility of exposing classified information and national secrets)

Furthermore, would you let an old sick citizen who is too weak to walk by him/herself unassisted? Would you let a serial killer join the army? Would you let a foreign national join the MI6? The answers are no, no, and no. The common sense and a careful analysis and forethought would say it is both a safety and a security risk in letting a weak elderly, a serial killer, an a wannabe-spy who is a foreign national join these civil service sectors. Is it a discrimination as suggested by @Unexpectedly? Yes. But it is a justified discrimination.

Autistic people can contribute to the society tremendously. They are people with rights too, you know. They are us. They have the ability to do things that ‘normal’ people cannot.

Einstein was autistic, Darwin was autistic and others like them were autistic too. Thus, they can still be part of our great society in other ways. They have the skills and the ability to contribute a great amount to the society for the better or for worse, just as ‘normal’ people can.

Forgot to mention as well, one of my friends who has autism is the sort of person never to have a record of aggression but got rejected by the army on the basis of 'what if you did get aggressive' and he feels jealous of those he feels are better than him in every way got to fight for this country whereas he's been told he is only good for free labour in a charity shop.

I think most autistic people make a great contribution to society, I'm just sick of those who still believe in segregation from society for them. :colonhash:
Reply 9
Original post by The_WiseMan

At the end of the day, people with autism can still join the army, in proving that they are fit to serve just like others.

I'm not entirely sure that's accurate at the present time.
I’m very sorry to hear that your friend, who doesn’t have a record of aggression, got rejected. Yes, it does seem unfair when considering your account.

On the other hand, when looking at it from the other side, I understand why the army rejected his application in the basis that ‘what if he gets aggressive’. It could undermine the security of the forces, and the safety of the soldiers, they might say, since most of not all of them will carry, handl, or posses a lethal weapon that could kill the enemy’s soldiers but also it could endanger the allies’ soldiers.

Perhaps he could apply for an office work or other jobs similar to that in the Army?
Original post by Unexpectedly
Forgot to mention as well, one of my friends who has autism is the sort of person never to have a record of aggression but got rejected by the army on the basis of 'what if you did get aggressive' and he feels jealous of those he feels are better than him in every way got to fight for this country whereas he's been told he is only good for free labour in a charity shop.

I think most autistic people make a great contribution to society, I'm just sick of those who still believe in segregation from society for them. :colonhash:
Reply 11
Original post by Vikingninja
Just out of curiosity since I’m on the spectrum myself but is it just a blanket issue on being diagnosed at all or is it based on specific symptoms that you have shown?

Blanket ban on joining with Autism, no exceptions.
Reply 12
Out of pure interest I googled symptoms of ASD and genuinely laughed out loud because there are several behaviours on the list that are overtly displayed by people I know serving.

I shall be paying very particular attention from now on 😁
Original post by NFI
Out of pure interest I googled symptoms of ASD and genuinely laughed out loud because there are several behaviours on the list that are overtly displayed by people I know serving.

I shall be paying very particular attention from now on 😁

That's not surprising since we are all on the autistic spectrum, it's just that some people are further along it than others and so exhibit more of the behaviours we associate with autism.

Also, many people don't get diagnosed.
Reply 14
Original post by harrysbar
That's not surprising since we are all on the autistic spectrum, it's just that some people are further along it than others and so exhibit more of the behaviours we associate with autism.

Also, many people don't get diagnosed.

Without a doubt there are serving people undiagnosed, same as for OCD.
Reply 15
Original post by NFI
Without a doubt there are serving people undiagnosed, same as for OCD.

I tried the online Functional Skills test for RAF Regt Officer and got a diagnosis of dyslexia because the computer looks at the time it take answering each question and thought I'd taken too long! For the record, some questions did require more thought, but I was well within the time, scored very highly and am not dyslexic!
Original post by Advice1919
My son has recently been declined for the Army he has ASC which he shared at his interview and was told that's fine,once the medical notes were received he was told because of his diagnosis and previous earlier occasional aggression he was unfit to join.I have talked to a few people and they say that an appeal is a waste of time as the Army will not reconsider ,does anyone know anymore to help please


This is very bamboozling.

Asperger Syndrome was only known about in Britain in 1991 (when Uta Frith published a book about the condition) and it only became officially recognised by the NHS and the education system in 1995. Therefore it is plausible to say that there could have been many people with undiagnosed Asperger Syndrome serving in the British Armed Forces during the Cold War, Falklands War, and Gulf War, even in battlefield conditions.

There are a number of questions which surround this situation:

1. If people with Asperger Syndrome are banned from joining / serving in the Armed Forces, then in exactly which year were they banned? I can vaguely remember some fuss back in 2000 whether disabled people should be allowed to serve in the Armed Forces but at the time the argument centred on traditional disability like blind, deaf, or wheelchair users, not Asperger Syndrome.

2. Has the increasing phenomenon since 2013 and the publication of DSM-5 to submerge Asperger Syndrome into Autistic Spectrum Disorder rather than recognise it as a condition in its own right changed anything when it comes to Armed Forces recruitment? Something to bear in mind is that Asperger Syndrome is very different from what was considered autism before 1991, and a person with (undiagnosed) Asperger Syndrome would have failed a diagnosis for autism before 1991.

3. Are people with all forms of ASD in Britain exempt from conscription during wartime?

4. Why are people with (certain types of) ASD enrolled in the Armed Forces of countries which impose compulsory military service including Israel and Singapore? I believe that people with (certain types of) ASD do military service in Austria, Switzerland, Norway, Turkey, and Iran although I haven't confirmed it.

5. When I asked a citizen of Singapore about the situation regarding disabled people and military service, he replied that there are always desk jobs and positions on military bases, and that changing technology requires more servicemen with brainpower rather than brawn for battlefield positions. Have the British Armed Forces realised this or are they still thinking like they are fighting WW1?
Original post by Drewski
It is discrimination, but it's the armed forces and different rules apply. They're actively allowed to discriminate.

The conditions one might encounter when serving in the military are so vastly different to those one might encounter working in, say, a corner shop, that it doesn't bare comparison.

Exactly. They have to discriminate.

That said, "high-functioning" autistics are very loyal and thrive off routine. They/we would very likely excel in the armed forces.
Original post by Tootles
Exactly. They have to discriminate.

That said, "high-functioning" autistics are very loyal and thrive off routine. They/we would very likely excel in the armed forces.

What exactly is the criteria for discrimination? Are medical notes from primary school age still relevant after the age of 18 even if a rediagnosis is carried out at that age?
Reply 19
Original post by Arran90
What exactly is the criteria for discrimination? Are medical notes from primary school age still relevant after the age of 18 even if a rediagnosis is carried out at that age?

"How you can be discriminated against
Discrimination can come in one of the following forms:

* direct discrimination - treating someone with a protected characteristic less favourably than others
* indirect discrimination - putting rules or arrangements in place that apply to everyone, but that put someone with a protected characteristic at an unfair disadvantage
* harassment - unwanted behaviour linked to a protected characteristic that violates someone’s dignity or creates an offensive environment for them
* victimisation - treating someone unfairly because they’ve complained about discrimination or harassment.
It can be lawful to have specific rules or arrangements in place, as long as they can be justified."

https://www.gov.uk/discrimination-your-rights/how-you-can-be-discriminated-against

For an entry in medical records to be irrelevant to the Armed Forces, it needs to have been amended to explain why a rediagnosis was made and that it explains all the symptoms from which someone suffers/suffered.

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