People who were too young for a Brexit vote: how do you feel? Watch

fallen_acorns
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#41
Report 1 month ago
#41
(Original post by BlueIndigoViolet)
was 2 months of being 18 - dumb decision, and for sure will be a bitter pill to swallow, think we will however rejoin in the next 30 years with a less deluded generation....
in 30 years most of your generation will be right-wing Tory voters, supporting what ever is the equivalent to Brexit in 30 years time...and your kids will be calling you deluded for not understanding the world in the same way that they do.

Its just a naive young persons dream that 'our generation' won't be like the ones before it. Every generation becomes more right wing as they age.. liberal attitudes give way, risk becomes more scary, and your views on large political events like Brexit shift.


(Original post by iseesparksfly)
Life experience doesn't necessarily make anyone more informed about politics. I'm 20, 17 at the time of the vote, and I knew more about politics than a lot of people older than me who were able to vote. There should be a minimum of course, I think 17, but belittling people who are perfectly educated on these things is stupid. Criticise people of all ages who vote without literally any actual knowledge.

TLDR: Your opinion is stupid
You think that there should be an age limit = great.

Why 17 though?

Do you know why the limit was set, and then lowered to 18 in the first place?

It wasn't actually anything to do with competence, or a persons ability to understand politics. Its a big misconception that young people have - they believe that the voting age was set because old people didn't think they had the capacity to understand. So then when they argue for the voting age to be lowered, they argue 'but I understand far more then a person older'

That wasn't why the voting age was set as it currently is though. It was never an issue of competence, it was an issue of responsibility. Both you to the the state, and the state to you. It was set at the threshold of adulthood, in a time where 18 meant you either conforming to, or trying to conform to the societal norms of an adult. You were likely doing the majority if not all of the following:
- working / paying taxes
- preparing for and being responsible for your family
- having children, or preparing to have children
- contributing to your community
- being held responsible in times of war/crisis
- owning property/assets

In other words, you were a contributing and responsible member of society, and as such you had the right to have a voice in how it was run. Your competence wasn't a factor. And of course many 18 year olds were not conforming to all of the above, but by 18 you were a legal adult, 90% were out of education, and well on their way to ticking off all of the traditional boxes of adulthood.

The argument for raising the voting age that some support today, is based on the fact that we are hitting these markers of adulthood, and by extension, full functioning members of society, later and later. In fact its been all over the place in the past few years, including the BBC in articles like this:
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-42732442

What has happened to young people is that we are now living in an extended teenage-style life, until our mid-20s. Prolonged through university, and forced by other social issues (housing prices, etc.). If you were to poll the average age in which a person hits the traditional milestones as a fully responsible member of society, meaning responsible for your self, and for those around you (family, community, children), it would be mid-late 20s now. Uposed to early 20s back in the 1960s.

The flip-side is that young people are far better educated, and far more intellectually able then younger generations.. but they, until their mid-late 20s, have far less responsibility, contribute less to society, own less, produce less, and matter less to society, then people that were the same age half a century ago.

So, that's the basic, short version of the argument for raising the voting age. Its a very contentious position, and one that you can certainly debate. But its not something you can brush away as a 'stupid opinion'. Hoping it will actually happen is stupid though - it never will, and should never.. even if there is some logic behind it, the piratical implications of taking the vote away from people would never be justified.
4
reply
Je suis Groot
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#42
Report 1 month ago
#42
(Original post by iseesparksfly)
What about all od the skilled EU citizens coming? Also, by your logic of only skilled people deserving a place, should we start kicking people out because they don't fit a standard?
Arrangements have already need to help the skilled ones. Yes kick them out , I believe that this is one of the cruel desicisions that need to be made sooner or later, because they cause too much Pressure on social services such as schools,NHS and Police.
Last edited by Je suis Groot; 1 month ago
1
reply
bones-mccoy
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#43
Report 1 month ago
#43
My parents both cast their votes for the sake of mine and my sister's generation rather than their own personal beliefs. Perhaps it's the oldest generation who should be stopped from voting if they're not even going to be alive, and therefore be affected by, the consequences of their vote?
2
reply
fallen_acorns
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#44
Report 1 month ago
#44
(Original post by pon1de2replay3)
yeas but obviously i can understand how 14 year olds do not have the maturity. however I think given proper political education in school , 16 year olds would be mature enough to vote (on behalf of those 14 year olds if u think about it)
of course you think that 16 year olds are mature enough, presumably you are 16-18 right?

We always think we are mature enough, because at any point in your life.. you are your most 'mature'. A 14 year old has never been more mature then at that very moment when they are 14, and you have never been more mature then right now when you are 16. so at 16, you think that your as mature as you can conceptualize being.

Yet, as we all do - when your 20, you will look back and think 'god, I was an immature idiot back then'. then when your 30, you'll look back at 20 year old you, and think 'what was he/she thinking back then??'

its just life and growing up. a 16 year old feels way more mature then a 14 year old.. an 18 year old thinks the 16 year old is a kid.. a 24 year old things the 18 year old has no idea.. etc.

The voting age was set to reflect the age one becomes a responsible and contributing and fully legal member of society.. maturity and capability have much less to do with it.
0
reply
Prussianxo
Badges: 15
Rep:
?
#45
Report 1 month ago
#45
It's gonna affect us way more than old people so we should have had a say in the matter
Posted on the TSR App. Download from Apple or Google Play
0
reply
fallen_acorns
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#46
Report 1 month ago
#46
(Original post by bones-mccoy)
My parents both cast their votes for the sake of mine and my sister's generation rather than their own personal beliefs. Perhaps it's the oldest generation who should be stopped from voting if they're not even going to be alive, and therefore be affected by, the consequences of their vote?
your parents should vote based on what they think.

Would they let you and your sister choose to move house, or what jobs they do? or any other major life choices. Sure if they are decent parents they would give you a say in the matter, and not ignore your feelings, but to hand the entire decision over to you, as they did with the vote, is just wrong.

There is a reason why grown ups make decisions for children. Its because children are not fully developed mentally and have not have enough life experience to reliably make correct decisions. Its why every society that has successfully existed works on the basis that you respect the wisdom and knowledge of those older than yourself.

Your last point is just one of those soundbites that people like to use without actually thinking abou tit.

If your exposure to the consequence of a vote, effects how much your vote matters... (as you said).. then:

a, terminal cancer patients loose the right to vote in the next elections
b, your 2 year old brother has a bigger say then your 19 year old self

great way to run a society.
0
reply
Je suis Groot
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#47
Report 1 month ago
#47
(Original post by fallen_acorns)
in 30 years most of your generation will be right-wing Tory voters, supporting what ever is the equivalent to Brexit in 30 years time...and your kids will be calling you deluded for not understanding the world in the same way that they do.

Its just a naive young persons dream that 'our generation' won't be like the ones before it. Every generation becomes more right wing as they age.. liberal attitudes give way, risk becomes more scary, and your views on large political events like Brexit shift.




You think that there should be an age limit = great.

Why 17 though?

Do you know why the limit was set, and then lowered to 18 in the first place?

It wasn't actually anything to do with competence, or a persons ability to understand politics. Its a big misconception that young people have - they believe that the voting age was set because old people didn't think they had the capacity to understand. So then when they argue for the voting age to be lowered, they argue 'but I understand far more then a person older'

That wasn't why the voting age was set as it currently is though. It was never an issue of competence, it was an issue of responsibility. Both you to the the state, and the state to you. It was set at the threshold of adulthood, in a time where 18 meant you either conforming to, or trying to conform to the societal norms of an adult. You were likely doing the majority if not all of the following:
- working / paying taxes
- preparing for and being responsible for your family
- having children, or preparing to have children
- contributing to your community
- being held responsible in times of war/crisis
- owning property/assets

In other words, you were a contributing and responsible member of society, and as such you had the right to have a voice in how it was run. Your competence wasn't a factor. And of course many 18 year olds were not conforming to all of the above, but by 18 you were a legal adult, 90% were out of education, and well on their way to ticking off all of the traditional boxes of adulthood.

The argument for raising the voting age that some support today, is based on the fact that we are hitting these markers of adulthood, and by extension, full functioning members of society, later and later. In fact its been all over the place in the past few years, including the BBC in articles like this:
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-42732442

What has happened to young people is that we are now living in an extended teenage-style life, until our mid-20s. Prolonged through university, and forced by other social issues (housing prices, etc.). If you were to poll the average age in which a person hits the traditional milestones as a fully responsible member of society, meaning responsible for your self, and for those around you (family, community, children), it would be mid-late 20s now. Uposed to early 20s back in the 1960s.

The flip-side is that young people are far better educated, and far more intellectually able then younger generations.. but they, until their mid-late 20s, have far less responsibility, contribute less to society, own less, produce less, and matter less to society, then people that were the same age half a century ago.

So, that's the basic, short version of the argument for raising the voting age. Its a very contentious position, and one that you can certainly debate. But its not something you can brush away as a 'stupid opinion'. Hoping it will actually happen is stupid though - it never will, and should never.. even if there is some logic behind it, the piratical implications of taking the vote away from people would never be justified.
I kinda didnot understand if you are for or against age limits, But I personally believe that the age limits should be around 22 just beacause until our desicions are somewhat influenced by others around us, rathers the clear fogless facts.
0
reply
bones-mccoy
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#48
Report 1 month ago
#48
(Original post by fallen_acorns)
your parents need to grow some balls, and vote based on what they think.

Would they let you and your sister choose to move house, or what jobs they do? or any other major life choices. Sure if they are decent parents they would give you a say in the matter, and not ignore your feelings, but to hand the entire decision over to you, as they did with the vote, is just pathetic.

There is a reason why grown ups make decisions for children. Its because children are not fully developed mentally and have not have enough life experience to reliably make correct decisions. Its why every society that has successfully existed works on the basis that you respect the wisdom and knowledge of those older than yourself.

Your last point is just one of those soundbites that people like to use without actually thinking abou tit.

If your exposure to the consequence of a vote, effects how much your vote matters... (as you said).. then:

a, terminal cancer patients loose the right to vote in the next elections
b, your 2 year old brother has a bigger say then your 19 year old self

great way to run a society.
No, it was based on the decision that they may not be around in 20/30 years time whereas there's a much better chance of me and my sister being around and living through the consequences of Brexit. I'm fairly sure they didn't have any strong feelings either way so voted on what they thought was best for my generation.

Obviously stopping older people from voting will never happen and logically can't really happen but it's still something to think about. Of course you can die at any age and some who are 70 (for example) at the moment will live until they're in their late 90s or even older. I do, however, agree with what you said in another comment about how young people half a century ago are different to those of today - why the voting age shouldn't be lowered.

And thanks for insulting my parents, much appreciated.
Last edited by bones-mccoy; 1 month ago
1
reply
BlueIndigoViolet
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#49
Report 1 month ago
#49
Brexit is a dumb choice which is a bitter pill for the United (maybe not so united anymore :rolleyes:) Kingdom - believe we will rejoin soon, yes people become less liberal as they get older, but is a question of common sense and the removal of the old nostalgic generations, but hopefully no Brexit at all....

although the UK leaving means the EU can finally get some work done, with the resident back seat member, at least de Gaulle had the vision to veto Britain entry to the Common Market....

PS... sound way of arguing by insulting someone's parents - great job
(Original post by fallen_acorns)
your parents need to grow some balls, and vote based on what they think.

Would they let you and your sister choose to move house, or what jobs they do? or any other major life choices. Sure if they are decent parents they would give you a say in the matter, and not ignore your feelings, but to hand the entire decision over to you, as they did with the vote, is just pathetic.

There is a reason why grown ups make decisions for children. Its because children are not fully developed mentally and have not have enough life experience to reliably make correct decisions. Its why every society that has successfully existed works on the basis that you respect the wisdom and knowledge of those older than yourself.

Your last point is just one of those soundbites that people like to use without actually thinking abou tit.

If your exposure to the consequence of a vote, effects how much your vote matters... (as you said).. then:

a, terminal cancer patients loose the right to vote in the next elections
b, your 2 year old brother has a bigger say then your 19 year old self

great way to run a society.
1
reply
angelinahx
Badges: 16
Rep:
?
#50
Report 1 month ago
#50
(Original post by fallen_acorns)
Unless you advocate for some manner of meritocratic based voting system, your individual capability as 17 year old makes no difference to whether the voting age should be lowered or not.
Why are 22 year olds who still live at home able to vote but independent 16 year olds aren't?
Of course the voting system should be based on meritocracy.
1
reply
Burton Bridge
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#51
Report 1 month ago
#51
What do you young people think of Margaret Thatcher?
1
reply
DrMikeHuntHertz
Badges: 16
Rep:
?
#52
Report 1 month ago
#52
(Original post by schoolsboring)
That's incorrect it was negotiated with the EU the UK would keep the British sterling as it was a very economically advanced currency #5 in the world (#4 before Brexit). There was absolutely no way they would have made the UK drop the pound especially as they know the Euro is an unstable idea.
I didn't say that.
0
reply
freddicle
Badges: 5
Rep:
?
#53
Report 1 month ago
#53
Without coming across as pessimistic and disparaging of the potency of the population's votes; I feel very indifferent about my inability to vote when the Brexit vote occurred. Theresa May, the current driving force of Brexit, was an avid Remain supporter before becoming Prime Minister. With this, it is apparent that the illusion of public power over the discourse of politics is simply a facade, and instead such occurrences as Brexit are a ploy for parliament to manipulate the fate of our country against the public's wishes, as politicians see fit. I am neither for or against Brexit, and because of this I'm accused of being in favour of either side by each opposing side lol
1
reply
pon1de2replay3
Badges: 15
Rep:
?
#54
Report 1 month ago
#54
(Original post by fallen_acorns)
of course you think that 16 year olds are mature enough, presumably you are 16-18 right?

We always think we are mature enough, because at any point in your life.. you are your most 'mature'. A 14 year old has never been more mature then at that very moment when they are 14, and you have never been more mature then right now when you are 16. so at 16, you think that your as mature as you can conceptualize being.

Yet, as we all do - when your 20, you will look back and think 'god, I was an immature idiot back then'. then when your 30, you'll look back at 20 year old you, and think 'what was he/she thinking back then??'

its just life and growing up. a 16 year old feels way more mature then a 14 year old.. an 18 year old thinks the 16 year old is a kid.. a 24 year old things the 18 year old has no idea.. etc.

The voting age was set to reflect the age one becomes a responsible and contributing and fully legal member of society.. maturity and capability have much less to do with it.
i agree but by that definition no-one is ever mature which doesn't really solve the problem.
0
reply
Sammylou40
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#55
Report 1 month ago
#55
I’m still annoyed I wasn’t old enough to vote when we were opted in
0
reply
iseesparksfly
Badges: 15
Rep:
?
#56
Report 1 month ago
#56
(Original post by fallen_acorns)
in 30 years most of your generation will be right-wing Tory voters, supporting what ever is the equivalent to Brexit in 30 years time...and your kids will be calling you deluded for not understanding the world in the same way that they do.

Its just a naive young persons dream that 'our generation' won't be like the ones before it. Every generation becomes more right wing as they age.. liberal attitudes give way, risk becomes more scary, and your views on large political events like Brexit shift.




You think that there should be an age limit = great.

Why 17 though?

Do you know why the limit was set, and then lowered to 18 in the first place?

It wasn't actually anything to do with competence, or a persons ability to understand politics. Its a big misconception that young people have - they believe that the voting age was set because old people didn't think they had the capacity to understand. So then when they argue for the voting age to be lowered, they argue 'but I understand far more then a person older'

That wasn't why the voting age was set as it currently is though. It was never an issue of competence, it was an issue of responsibility. Both you to the the state, and the state to you. It was set at the threshold of adulthood, in a time where 18 meant you either conforming to, or trying to conform to the societal norms of an adult. You were likely doing the majority if not all of the following:
- working / paying taxes
- preparing for and being responsible for your family
- having children, or preparing to have children
- contributing to your community
- being held responsible in times of war/crisis
- owning property/assets

In other words, you were a contributing and responsible member of society, and as such you had the right to have a voice in how it was run. Your competence wasn't a factor. And of course many 18 year olds were not conforming to all of the above, but by 18 you were a legal adult, 90% were out of education, and well on their way to ticking off all of the traditional boxes of adulthood.

The argument for raising the voting age that some support today, is based on the fact that we are hitting these markers of adulthood, and by extension, full functioning members of society, later and later. In fact its been all over the place in the past few years, including the BBC in articles like this:
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-42732442

What has happened to young people is that we are now living in an extended teenage-style life, until our mid-20s. Prolonged through university, and forced by other social issues (housing prices, etc.). If you were to poll the average age in which a person hits the traditional milestones as a fully responsible member of society, meaning responsible for your self, and for those around you (family, community, children), it would be mid-late 20s now. Uposed to early 20s back in the 1960s.

The flip-side is that young people are far better educated, and far more intellectually able then younger generations.. but they, until their mid-late 20s, have far less responsibility, contribute less to society, own less, produce less, and matter less to society, then people that were the same age half a century ago.

So, that's the basic, short version of the argument for raising the voting age. Its a very contentious position, and one that you can certainly debate. But its not something you can brush away as a 'stupid opinion'. Hoping it will actually happen is stupid though - it never will, and should never.. even if there is some logic behind it, the piratical implications of taking the vote away from people would never be justified.
There is some truth in that, statistically there is a trend, but I can't see left-wing people my age turning into die hard tories who have a hard on for Theresa May. I don't think all conservatives are horrible, but some right wing views are atrocious. Their policies are just amoral and horrible towards certain groups of people. The Conservative party are horrible for disabled people, horrible for poor people, horrible for animals, and just horrible for society.

Have you not considered that that "criteria" is outdated and stupid? Saying that younger people "matter less" in society makes literally no sense whatsoever
0
reply
iseesparksfly
Badges: 15
Rep:
?
#57
Report 1 month ago
#57
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
What do you young people think of Margaret Thatcher?
A heinous *****
0
reply
Taz554:-)
Badges: 15
Rep:
?
#58
Report 1 month ago
#58
im here because of the eu so i feel uneasy af
0
reply
BlueIndigoViolet
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#59
Report 1 month ago
#59
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
What do you young people think of Margaret Thatcher?
respect her and her policies, even if I didnt agree with everything, a strong female icon in a previously less mixed parliament, the Iron Lady, a person people will remember for a number of generations..
0
reply
Andrew97
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#60
Report 1 month ago
#60
(Original post by pon1de2replay3)
ive got enough life experience to know that brexit is ****ed and if younger people had voted (and maybe they'd put a cap on old people voting who will be dead before we feel the effects of brexit), maybe we wouldn't be in the mess we're in now. it's our future
I looked into this before. Giving 16-17 year olds the vote in 2016 would not have made a difference. And there should not be an upper limit on voting age.
0
reply
X

Quick Reply

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

How did your AQA GCSE Physics Paper 1 go?

Loved the paper - Feeling positive (281)
31.05%
The paper was reasonable (365)
40.33%
Not feeling great about that exam... (146)
16.13%
It was TERRIBLE (113)
12.49%

Watched Threads

View All