What is the best way forward on Brexit Watch

Poll: What is the best and most productive way forward for Brexit?
Leave without a deal on 12th April 2019 (327)
21.26%
Extend article 50 until 30th June, allowing for further negotiations or votes on Theresa May's deal (143)
9.3%
Extend Article 50 by up to a year, allowing a complete renegotiation, second referendum or general election (1068)
69.44%
independentx
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#21
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#21
(Original post by random_matt)
The leave vote won, people still crying about that?
52% of the electorate may have voted leave, but what about the other equally important 48%? They voted remain and I don't think their opinions should be completely ignored because of an extremely narrow majority.

As an aside, I think the margin for referenda should have to be at least 10% for the result to be seen as conclusive.
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Stebe
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#22
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#22
(Original post by random_matt)
The leave vote won, people still crying about that?
Pretty much so, because leaving the European Union is a terrible idea.
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Psaa
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#23
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#23
The majority now want a no deal according to poles. Remain could still be on the ballot to satisfy remain voters.
But by saying why not consider the opinion of the leave voters you could say why not consider the opinion of those who voted against the cooper bill and it just goes round in circles
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tomahawker314
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#24
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#24
A referendum as it stands is a terrible idea, it works only when there is a binary choice, not the plethora of options that get rejected every other day in parliament. Until something gains traction this will only add to the pain.
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Psaa
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#25
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#25
(Original post by independentx)
52% of the electorate may have voted leave, but what about the other equally important 47%? They voted remain and I don't think their opinions should be completely ignored because of an extremely narrow majority.

As an aside, I think the margin for referenda should have to be at least 10% for the result to be seen as conclusive.
So that means the cooper bill shouldn't have gone through? Because it only had a majority of one?
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tomahawker314
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#26
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#26
(Original post by Psaa)
So that means the cooper bill shouldn't have gone through? Because it only had a majority of one?
That wasnt a referendum so his somewhat arbitrary rule does not apply.
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Psaa
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#27
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#27
(Original post by tomahawker314)
That wasnt a referendum so his somewhat arbitrary rule does not apply.
Then that's just saying the unrepresentative MPs should have a greater say and the arbitrary rule shouldn't apply to them because they are above it
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Alfissti
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#28
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#28
Best is to just stop ****ing about and leave without a deal. This mess is creating a massive mess among the business community.

Its causing people to lose their jobs and homes, ruining life for many everyday folk. Soon the only business that would be profitable are private bailiffs, debt collectors and insolvency specialists.

My take is either a no deal Brexit or a 2nd referendum and a general election.
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independentx
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#29
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#29
(Original post by Psaa)
So that means the cooper bill shouldn't have gone through? Because it only had a majority of one?
Perhaps not. I was talking more about public referenda than parliamentary votes though.
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Psaa
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#30
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#30
(Original post by independentx)
Perhaps not. I was talking more about public referenda than parliamentary votes though.
But why should it be any different, they are forms of the same thing
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Doones
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#31
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#31
(Original post by Psaa)
The majority now want a no deal according to poles. Remain could still be on the ballot to satisfy remain voters.
But by saying why not consider the opinion of the leave voters you could say why not consider the opinion of those who voted against the cooper bill and it just goes round in circles
No that's not true - that poll has been badly and misleadingly reported.

More people want a referendum and to remain (from the same polling company):
Name:  Screenshot 2019-04-05 at 09.32.07.jpg
Views: 20
Size:  98.1 KB

Read the complete article here:
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics...no-deal-brexit
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tomahawker314
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#32
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#32
(Original post by Psaa)
Then that's just saying the unrepresentative MPs should have a greater say and the arbitrary rule shouldn't apply to them because they are above it
Yes it does, I was simply applying the concept suggested by another poster despite not personally agreeing with it.
The entirety of our politics depends on the majority and redefining this for a referendum seems to add unnecessary barriers to change.
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Doones
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#33
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#33
(Original post by tomahawker314)
A referendum as it stands is a terrible idea, it works only when there is a binary choice, not the plethora of options that get rejected every other day in parliament. Until something gains traction this will only add to the pain.
It could have multiple options using STV, or other methods.
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independentx
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#34
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#34
(Original post by Psaa)
But why should it be any different, they are forms of the same thing
I said above that it perhaps shouldn't have gone through. A majority of 1 vote is inconclusive in my mind as well. But the public population is much, much higher than the number of MP's in parliament, so I think it applies more to referenda.
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Doones
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#35
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#35
(Original post by Alfissti)
Best is to just stop ****ing about and leave without a deal. This mess is creating a massive mess among the business community.

Its causing people to lose their jobs and homes, ruining life for many everyday folk. Soon the only business that would be profitable are private bailiffs, debt collectors and insolvency specialists.
Do you know what the economic and social impact is of leaving with no deal?

Do you also know that the EU will not open negotiations on future trading arrangements unless the already negotiated "divorce agreement" and backstop is accepted anyway? So No Deal is slamming the door on the EU (our largest trading partner).
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Stebe
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#36
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#36
(Original post by Alfissti)
Best is to just stop ****ing about and leave without a deal. This mess is creating a massive mess among the business community.

Its causing people to lose their jobs and homes, ruining life for many everyday folk. Soon the only business that would be profitable are private bailiffs, debt collectors and insolvency specialists.

My take is either a no deal Brexit or a 2nd referendum and a general election.
I think it is the fear of no deal that is causing people to lose their jobs.
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JTfoxlove
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#37
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#37
I think most people voted without knowing what Brexit would look like.

Now that we do, there should be a second referendum.

It's far more democratic to give people a vote than not.

If the people still feel the same then we leave. It would also create a real mandate for a 'no deal' Brexit, allowing a politically expedient option.

(I think that a no deal is suicide and Brexit is a form of self harm.)
Last edited by JTfoxlove; 1 month ago
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independentx
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#38
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#38
(Original post by JTfoxlove)
I think most people votes without knowing what Brexit would look like. Now that we do there should be a second referendum. If the people still feel the same then we leave. It's far more democratic to give people a vote than not.
I agree with this. I couldn't vote (and if there was a second referendum still can't vote as I'm 16) but I would support one for this reason.
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Psaa
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#39
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#39
But we have the worst trade balance with the EU which has to be looked at.
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Doones
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#40
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#40
(Original post by Psaa)
The majority now want a no deal according to poles.
And just to reiterate, no.
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