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Aircrew - Hayfever

Reply 20

11

You can still be ground crew, it is just that they won't like you playing around with anything that goes very fast.

I'm not completely sure about commercially but I think you can still be a civi pilot. After all, as long as you don't hit the auto-pilot button whilst you are sneezing, I can't see why it would be a problem.

Reply 21

Lady Venom

14

MuseValheru

I love that, nice scientific experiment to test whether or not you have hayfever. Personally I would say go to the doctor, I dont know if you can be tested for hayfever but I would say the doctors know best. If you dont want to go to the doctor you could try this method.

God im still laughing

George

Because that is excellent advice - go to the doc and get it written permanently on your record. Byebye pilot/WSO/crewman slot!

Reply 22

threeportdrift

Careers Forum Helper

20

The reason you can't have hay fever is nothing to do with sneezing while flying, plenty of aircrew aren't handling the controls, and not all of those that do are doing warp factor 6 in the low flying system. The main reason is that anything that blocks your nose, ie your sinuses, can be dangerous when flying, because of the changes of pressure. Blocked sinuses wont change pressure as the cabin pressure rises and falls (either in climb/descent in an unpressurised ac or in the event of a de-pressurisation in a pressurised ac). Sinus pain can be immediately, painfully disabling. So it is a large risk, taking on someone who might be prone to regular periods of blocked sinuses. Also remember that we fly all over the world, so it is not a just summer issue.

However, modern medicines such as loratadine are very effective at stopping the symptoms, so once money has been spent on training you, it is more effective to dose you with something effective that waste the millions by chopping you. You might infer from that that if you take loratadine as a precautionary measure (and it is available from any good supermarket) you won't suffer from hay fever .......

Reply 23

MuseValheru

InaSpin

Because that is excellent advice - go to the doc and get it written permanently on your record. Byebye pilot/WSO/crewman slot!

Yes but it is the rules. RISE - Respect Integrity Service Excellence. Clearly if you lie you have no integrity or respect for the service. It might be difficult for people to accept that what they want to do is out of their reach, through no fault of their own but thats life. Some people turnup to OASC applying for pilot only to find that their limbs are the wrong size, or that they have a slight discrepancy in their sight, its upsetting but people get on with it and often continue with an application for a second or third branch as the RAF is a lifestyle not just a job.

If you are concerned about hayfever dont lie about it, investigate whether or not it is hayfever. You might find out that you dont have it and are free to continue with your application free of concern. I wouldnt be nice to get through OASC and IOT with that concern at the back of your mind.

George

Reply 24

threeportdrift

Careers Forum Helper

20

Except that if you go to the Doc halfway through BFT and are diagnosed with hay fever, they give you a box of Clarityn and send you back to the course. If hay fever were something that stopped you flying, fair do's, but it isn't, it is used as a selection filter at OASC.

The question of integrity perhaps lies with the RAF using such a false and unnecessary filter.

There is no integrity issue for the candidate, because identifying yourself as a hay fever sufferer, whether via a Doctor or self-diagnosed precedes making an application. If you make an aircrew application with hay fever on your medical records, or if you are going to declare it yourself, then you are just a time waster, because you WILL be excluded. OASC will not diagnose you, they will take your medical records or statement as fact and you are out.

Reply 25

Lady Venom

14

MuseValheru

Yes but it is the rules. RISE - Respect Integrity Service Excellence.

Where did you read that?

There's been a big debate on Pprune recently about this and about 80% went with the don't disclose it if it isn't on your records.

Reply 26

MuseValheru

I am simply going on the fact that when I applied for Aircrew I was given information stating that if you suffered from hayfever or a number of other illnesses that you could not be considered for aircrew. I am still in the selection process myself and do not know if this changes once you have started training however RISE always applies. I believe that not mentioning a concern when asked is a lack of respect and integrity.

These are of course only my opinions, however hayfever is a no when applying for aircrew. If its on your medical records you are not going to be accepted for aircrew. Take some time to think whether it is a career in the RAF that you desire or if it is to fly. If the later go down civi street.

George

Reply 27

Q_M

15

PasserBy9

You become slightly less effective when you spend 4 months of the year having watery eyes and a runny nose. You also fail at being tactical if you lie down in the grass and then start sneezing uncontrollably.
It becomes slightly more concerning if you are going fast enough to cross the United Kingdom during one sneezing fit. On top of that, if you are flying low level you don't really want to start getting watery eyes and then wipe away the water just in time to see the edge of the hill.

Have some rep

Reply 28

Lady Venom

14

MuseValheru

I am simply going on the fact that when I applied for Aircrew I was given information stating that if you suffered from hayfever or a number of other illnesses that you could not be considered for aircrew. I am still in the selection process myself and do not know if this changes once you have started training however RISE always applies. I believe that not mentioning a concern when asked is a lack of respect and integrity.

These are of course only my opinions, however hayfever is a no when applying for aircrew. If its on your medical records you are not going to be accepted for aircrew. Take some time to think whether it is a career in the RAF that you desire or if it is to fly. If the later go down civi street.

George

I know about the hayfever malarky, I was asking about RISE LOL

Reply 29

MuseValheru

I read that ages ago when I applied for a 6th Form Scholarship. The only reference I could find currently is within the RAF Ethos Core Values and Standards document.

http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcms/mediafiles/AB5499A3_1143_EC82_2E7A5599F6DCAA55.pdf

Page 2

George

Reply 30

Theo1977

8

MuseValheru

I believe that not mentioning a concern when asked is a lack of respect and integrity.

I agree absolutely (even though it was adhering to that principle that ultimately saw me rejected by the RAF for medical reasons!)

Reply 31

djmm

15

MuseValheru

I am simply going on the fact that when I applied for Aircrew I was given information stating that if you suffered from hayfever or a number of other illnesses that you could not be considered for aircrew. I am still in the selection process myself and do not know if this changes once you have started training however RISE always applies. I believe that not mentioning a concern when asked is a lack of respect and integrity.

These are of course only my opinions, however hayfever is a no when applying for aircrew. If its on your medical records you are not going to be accepted for aircrew. Take some time to think whether it is a career in the RAF that you desire or if it is to fly. If the later go down civi street.

George

Integrity and all that, fine, but understand you'd have to be a complete donkey to make an application for your dream job THEN tell selection -knowingly- that you *might* (unless you happen to be a doctor and are self-analysing yourself, in which case why apply to be a pilot?) have something which they will exclude you instantly for. WHEREAS, if you simply don't tell them (unless asked it's not lying) then you have a stab, and if you're found to have it later then it's A-OK, as serving aircrew succeptable to runny noses are not automatically pulled from flying duties. The issue here isn't integrity - we know that's a core value of all members of the forces, but that if you're going to apply only to condemn yourself from the outset then you're an idiot and you don't deserve the time spent wasted on you.

-djmarkmclachlan

Reply 32

Theo1977

8

djmarkmclachlan

(unless asked it's not lying)

Yes, but they DO ask you - several times!

If you actually do think you have hayfever, that's one thing. But if what you ACTUALLY have is, in fact, a summer cold, (i.e. you get something sniffly very mildly in the summer, but it's not perhaps hayfever as such - which can be pretty dramatic) I certainly wouldn't dress that up as hayfever during my application! Let's face it, the medical form also asks if you've ever had a headache, because they're worried about migranes - there are distinctions to be made in all things.

Reply 33

threeportdrift

Careers Forum Helper

20

Yes, but you know you are going to be asked the question, and you know that if you say you suffer from hay fever symptoms you are going no further (as I have said before, there is no diagnostic test conducted by OASC for hay fever, they take your word for it). So why waste everyone's time and the tax payers money by proceeding with an application?

If you have diagnosed hay fever ie on your medical records - don't bother to apply.

If you don't have diagnosed hay fever, but have a compulsion to declare that you have the symptoms - don't bother to apply.

If you don't have diagnosed hay fever - crack on.

Reply 34

djmm

15

Theo1977

Yes, but they DO ask you - several times!

Which reiterates my point: you know they're going to ask, so if you're going to hang yourself by saying that you might (or might not - but they don't care, it's an easy way of sifting for them!) have hayfever... then don't apply. That's just plain stupid - integrity or no integrity! :smile:

Reply 35

visesh

17

Theo1977

Yes, but they DO ask you - several times!

They might ask, but you won't know for certain whether or not you have it until you get it formally diagnosed. If you do get it formally diagnosed, it's on record. If it's on record, it's lying. If it's not on record, it's not lying.

Reply 36

Wing Commander

Hi guys

Been reading through the advice given regarding hayfever. I had Hayfever when i was younger which was diagnosed by a doctor. Now I have been symptom free for 8yrs and i have never had any sinuses problems at all.
I spoke to personel at the AFCO about 4 yrs ago and also a wing commander in regards to my Hayfever that i had. They told me that if i was symptom free for 4 yrs then they would consider my application for aircrew.
I had to pull out my application for personal reasons during that time. i am now applying again for WSOp, however i need to speak to the AFCO again to see about my chances at aircrew due to my history.

Reply 37

xxRAFNurse2bxx

8

what about other trades? x

Reply 38

copeland

when I walked in through RAF recruitment centre I was asked 3 questions before within 30 seconds of saying the word "PILOT"
do you have 20/20 vision?
do you have hay fever?
do you know of any reason why you can't work for HM Forces (terrorism etc).
I foolishly said yes to hayfever and that was me being pointed in the direction of Intelligence Officer! I joined the Army and got AAC and went rotary. The training at RAF Shawbury is tri-service and hence I went through the course with equal numbers of FAA and RAF. During the induction course you spend some time on Aviation Medicine. One of the RAF pilots who had a summer cold (this was june) and took the opportunity to ask the Dr presenting the lecture about his "friend" who had developed hay fever and whether or not "his friend" should declare it. There was an intense interest in Dr's answer from myself and atleast 2 others on the course who had closet hayfever. The advice was that if you were on non-prescription drugs and you were not massively impaired with symptons of hayfever you don't need to declare it. To make sure you could ask a civi dr to research whether as a civi pilot you could fly using medication XYZ! I did not have a record of hayfever on my medical docs. obviously, if you did you are buggered as if you ever do get caught out your integrity/ character gets called into question. if you have no record/ history of hayfever and happen to "develop" it during training or once qualifued they are likely to take a different view if it ever emerges given how much they have invested.

Reply 39

Mosler

5

Can someone clarify for me, if someone has hay fever on their medical records but has not needed to visit their doctors in the last 4 years as their symptoms have all but gone, are they eligible to apply for Aircrew?

Thanks

Aircrew - Hayfever

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