George Clooney calls for boycotting Brunei-owned hotels Watch

HumanBrian
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You provided articles - opinions f a random third party unsupported by any evidence..

Journalists running away from Muslim communities... or is it "not relevant too"? you don't like it, therefore it does not exist, right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vO9vBHZRBQ4
(Original post by Obolinda)
:rolleyes: bye boo, I provided links that debunked your claims.
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Fallacies
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#42
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You are forgetting about multinational companies that would be worried about tarnishing their brand image. A string of companies confirmed late last week that they would no longer be using some of these hotels' facilities.
(Original post by Wired_1800)
Many of the people, who can afford to boycott the hotel, are either not on TSR nor do they care about the boycott.

Also, there are many other countries that we do business with that actively kill homosexuals. We sell weapons to Saudi Arabia, despite the fact we know they are openly homophobic.
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YaliaV
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(Original post by Fallacies)
George Clooney's call for the boycott of hotels owned by the Sultan of Brunei is gaining traction, the Beverly Hills Hotel just lost 2 big gigs as a result. Also, a string of companies confirmed late last week that they would no longer be using the five-star hotel’s facilities so Clooney's calling him out is having a noticeable effect due to the tarnished brand image. That's the thing: celebrities speak, people listen.
They’ll listen for a few weeks and then it’ll be business as usual again. More virtue signaling.

Honestly, Hollywood is depraved and corrupt - why hasn’t he spoken out against his own? America is in a real mess, yet Americans continue to moralise against the evil foreigners. Yawn.
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Wired_1800
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(Original post by Fallacies)
You are forgetting about multinational companies that would be worried about tarnishing their brand image. A string of companies confirmed late last week that they would no longer be using some of these hotels' facilities.
All that will soon calm down. Those hotels are some of the best hotels in the world.

This is just the standard reaction to a new homophobic law. It has happened with several countries. Besides, the King is worth $20 Billion, so would not care about one small piece of his complex global business empire.
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akbar0123
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Lol they can boycott all they want but nothing will stop Brunei from practising Islamic law. The entire Muslim world stands with Brunei right now and a few celebrities boycotting some hotels won’t change that.
Last edited by akbar0123; 1 week ago
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Obolinda
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(Original post by HumanBrian)
You provided articles - opinions f a random third party unsupported by any evidence..
Did you read it?

(Original post by HumanBrian)
Journalists running away from Muslim communities... or is it "not relevant too"? you don't like it, therefore it does not exist, right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vO9vBHZRBQ4
No, it's not relevant, you have yet to provide evidence of an increased risk of homophobic motivated attack by simply living near a large Muslim community.
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Fallacies
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Agreed with the idea of your post, but to say the entire Muslim world stands with Brunei is a bit extreme. You are saying that all those who adhere to the religion of Islam, or the societies where Islam is practiced stand with Brunei. A very lazy hasty generalization.
(Original post by akbar0123)
Lol they can boycott all they want but nothing will stop Brunei from practising Islamic law. The entire Muslim world stands with Brunei right now and a few celebrities boycotting some hotels won’t change that.
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HumanBrian
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As I said before, you personally do not agree = not relevant. No point in arguing with a child or a zealot or a combination of both. Enjoy your bubble.
(Original post by Obolinda)
Did you read it?



No, it's not relevant, you have yet to provide evidence of an increased risk of homophobic motivated attack by simply living near a large Muslim community.
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harrysbar
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(Original post by Wired_1800)
Many of the people, who can afford to boycott the hotel, are either not on TSR nor do they care about the boycott.
Somehow, I don't think Clooney's words were aimed at TSR

And some of us must care about the boycott to some degree or we wouldn't be discussing it right now
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HumanBrian
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Ok, hundreds of millions of muslims do...
(Original post by Fallacies)
Agreed with the idea of your post, but to say the entire Muslim world stands with Brunei is a bit extreme. You are saying that all those who adhere to the religion of Islam, or the societies where Islam is practiced stand with Brunei. A very lazy hasty generalization.
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harrysbar
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He's not generalising Fallacies - he's only speaking for "hundreds of millions of muslims"
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Fallacies
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Where did you get that stat from Muslimbeliefs.com? I already know what your answer will be so let me say we are straying to different areas: laws are not representative of all the civilians' beliefs and it almost impossible to determine a figure of how many Muslims believe that gays should be stoned. Community and individual beliefs are not the same as the ideology as a whole and its general reading. My point remains that all-claims (saying that all Muslims have homogenous beliefs) is extremely false. There are many different schools of thoughts regarding this, even in jurisprudence. As I also stated before some may condemn homosexuality but not all necessarily believe they should be stoned to death.

Not saying it is right to condemn homosexuality, but the point I've been making is generalizations regarding this are mostly erroneous.

(Original post by HumanBrian)
Ok, hundreds of millions of muslims do...
Last edited by Fallacies; 1 week ago
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Fallacies
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PRSOM.
(Original post by harrysbar)
He's not generalising Fallacies - he's only speaking for "hundreds of millions of muslims"
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-Eirlys-
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Good! I think they should boycott more things that they own or are involved in.
(Original post by Fallacies)
Do you think this will make a difference?

The nine hotels owned by Brunei are:

The Dorchester, London
45 Park Lane, London
Coworth Park, UK
The Beverly Hills Hotel, Beverly Hills
Hotel Bel-Air, Los Angeles
Le Meurice, Paris
Hotel Plaza Athenee, Paris
Hotel Eden, Rome
Hotel Principe di Savoia, Milan

"The Brunei-owned luxury hotels facing an international boycott have hidden their social media accounts after backlash over laws in the country were enacted this week making gay sex punishable by death. The hotels, which are operated under the Dorchester Collection brand, have faced a celebrity-led international boycott after implementing the new laws."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brunei-...anti-gay-laws/
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HumanBrian
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Well, I can see an obvious pattern when it comes to LGBT in countries like Somalia: Afghanistan, Sudan, Brunei, Iran, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Yemen, Palestine, Iraq, Algeria... different countries in very different parts of the world with a very different standard of living, yet their enormous hate (of the general public) towards LGBT or apostates is rather obvious. Often the lynching is done by random people without any governmental intervention. All of the people from very different societies, never met each other yet all of them will justify hate towards gays by citing the same passages of the same book.

It's not so long that 600 kids from a public school in the UK were kept home by their parent solely and only because the hate LGBT so much they do not even want their kids to know about them. I am sure that it is very "safe" for people from LGBT to live in that community.

So yes, it is hundreds of millions of people.
(Original post by Fallacies)
Where did you get that stat from Muslimbeliefs.com? I already know what your answer will be so let me say we are straying to different areas: laws are not representative of all the civilians' beliefs and it almost impossible to determine a figure of how many Muslims believe that gays should be stoned. Community and individual beliefs are not the same as the ideology as a whole and its general reading. My point remains that all-claims (saying that all Muslims have homogenous beliefs) is extremely false. There are many different schools of thoughts regarding this, even in jurisprudence. As I also stated before some may condemn homosexuality but not all necessarily believe they should be stoned to death.

Not saying it is right to condemn homosexuality, but the point I've been making is generalizations regarding this are mostly erroneous.
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Wired_1800
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(Original post by harrysbar)
Somehow, I don't think Clooney's words were aimed at TSR

And some of us must care about the boycott to some degree or we wouldn't be discussing it right
I just wanted to put it out there. Don't know the socioeconomic conditions of all TsR members, but most of us would either not care about the boycott or not be able to afford it.

As for caring, we should not be picking and choosing our social justice campaigns. We turn a blind eye to Saudi Arabia but then criticise Brunei, we ignore US expansionist policies but attack Russia.
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Fallacies
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Palestine? Homosexuality is not even illegal in the West Bank. In the Gaza strip, it is currently being run by an extreme terrorist group that kills so many people that are non-LGBT sometimes indiscriminately for their own nefarious purposes.

You are forgetting that the attitudes have been influenced also by these countries legal, social, political and cultural history. And again, as I will explain, still by no means determine all individuals' beliefs. May I remind you that same-sex marriage has only been recently legalized in Western countries with stable economies and relatively stable political situations.

Same-sex sexual intercourse is legal in Albania, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Burkina Faso, Djibouti, Guinea-Bissau, Iraq, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kosovo, Kyrgyzstan, Mali, Niger, Tajikistan, Turkey, most of Indonesia, and Northern Cyprus

Mohamed El-Moctar El-Shinqiti argues that "[even though] homosexuality is a grievous sin...[a] no legal punishment is stated in the Qur'an for homosexuality... it is not reported that Prophet Muhammad has punished somebody for committing homosexuality...[c] there is no authentic hadith reported from the Prophet prescribing a punishment for the homosexuals..."

Of course, others could disagree but the point remains: you cannot generalize.

Saying the "Muslim world" includes individuals. Not mere immutable outdated laws or outdated secular countries.

Also, in the 19th and early 20th century, homosexual sexual contact was viewed as relatively commonplace in the Middle East, owing in part to widespread sex segregation, which made heterosexual encounters outside marriage more difficult. So, the attitudes change and are by no means definitive.

Interestingly I read this:

According to University of Münster professor Thomas Bauer, for about a thousand years, up to 1979, there is no documented case in the Islamic world in which a man was prosecuted for consensual sexual relations with another man. Although contemporary Islamist movements decry homosexuality as a form of Western decadence, the current prejudice against it among Muslim publics stems from an amalgamation of traditional Islamic legal theory with popular notions that were imported from Europe during the colonial era, when Western military and economic superiority made Western notions of sexuality particularly influential in the Muslim world.

So, the attitudes you see now on the news are not just a simple byproduct of Islam. And not to mention, these countries are corrupt and their systems are broken. It is also a result of lack of education and terrorist groups that do take the general reading. But by no means do these corrupt individuals represent every single person's beliefs.


2) Addressed that incident in a previous post that you repped.

Sorry for the essay and disordered thoughts. All the same idea, though. Enjoy reading.

(Original post by HumanBrian)
Well, I can see an obvious pattern when it comes to LGBT in countries like Somalia: Afghanistan, Sudan, Brunei, Iran, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Yemen, Palestine, Iraq, Algeria... different countries in very different parts of the world with a very different standard of living, yet their enormous hate (of the general public) towards LGBT or apostates is rather obvious. Often the lynching is done by random people without any governmental intervention. All of the people from very different societies, never met each other yet all of them will justify hate towards gays by citing the same passages of the same book.

It's not so long that 600 kids from a public school in the UK were kept home by their parent solely and only because the hate LGBT so much they do not even want their kids to know about them. I am sure that it is very "safe" for people from LGBT to live in that community.

So yes, it is hundreds of millions of people.
Last edited by Fallacies; 1 week ago
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HumanBrian
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(Original post by Fallacies)
So, the attitudes you see now on the news are not just a simple byproduct of Islam. And not to mention, these countries are corrupt and their systems are broken. It is also a result of lack of education and terrorist groups that do take the general reading. But by no means do these corrupt individuals represent every single person's beliefs.
Countries I mention do not have anything in common apart of Islam and they do add up to several hundreds of millions of people.

Palestine has elected government with the program spinning around killing all the Jews as they stated publicly on TV and in the UN.

Also, it is not illegal to be gay in Iraq but you know wel,l that being publicly gay outside a large city centre is 100% death sentence, this applies to Jordan, Albania and Bahrain. For leaving Islam you are going to die all of them.

Thing that you are missing the most is that you wont be attacked because of a law or a bylaw, you will be attacked by random bystanders that feel that they have to attack you because of Islam.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tood-them.html
French trans attacked by Algerians in France, Algerians from Algerians where being trans is not a crime. They are doing it because of a religion not because of a law.
Last edited by HumanBrian; 1 week ago
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Fallacies
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By Palestine, you mean the Gaza Strip (controlled by Hamas) in this case not the West Bank and check my edited post.

I also explain this.
(Original post by HumanBrian)
Countries I mention do not have anything in common apart of Islam and they do add up to several hundreds of millions of people.

Palestine has elected government with the program sinning around killing all Jews as they stated publicly on TV and in the UN.
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harrysbar
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(Original post by Wired_1800)
I just wanted to put it out there. Don't know the socioeconomic conditions of all TsR members, but most of us would either not care about the boycott or not be able to afford it.

As for caring, we should not be picking and choosing our social justice campaigns. We turn a blind eye to Saudi Arabia but then criticise Brunei, we ignore US expansionist policies but attack Russia.
I don't understand your logic as what is TSR to George Clooney? Nothing, unless he's been secretly posting as an Annonymous member to ask if he's good enough for medicine or something.

As for caring, it is up to individual peope what they feel strongly about and what they don't. Most of us live in a state of ignorance about many of the world's injustices but when things are pointed out to us, we take a view on whether it seems morally right or not and react accordingly. If we focussed on all the injustices and darkness in the world we would probably die under the weight of too much negativity, but that doesn't mean that countries like Brunei can't be criticised when they come under the spotlight
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