The Student Room Group

How Do I Get A Job Without A Reference?

TL;DR - the only work I have been able to get over the last 3 years is freelance work, however nobody wants to give me reference. This is problematic as a) UCAS requires employment references if you have been out of academia for over 5 years and b) a lot of jobs also require current employer reference (as well as personal).

When I have approached the HR departments / managers for companies I have / currently freelance at, they have refused to give me a reference based on the fact that a) I am not employed by them; and b) I am not applying to work for them.

I havent done work through agencies for a over 2 years as it is impossible to find agency work anywhere within a 3 hour daily commute (<1.5 hours between the venue and my hour) via agencies (+ it would cost more staying over than I would earn from the working).

so any suggestions?

(ps I know a lot of people will say that is illegal re: the no reference thing but speaking to my professional union's legal department, because I am not employed by them (legally) and am self-employed, they have no legal obligation to provide me an employment reference).
(edited 4 years ago)
That really sucks and is really surprising (all so many people have said no). I had a self employed person of the same nature (I know what you do) give me a reference for something that was a bit picky. Obviously I worked with them and my circumstances are different. References are something I've worried about a great deal in the past.

Could you get a reference off a self employed person of the same nature at one of the place you've had individual jobs for?

Is there a way of communicating to agency in terms of reassuring them that a reference is often very little?

Does UCAS actually specifically say you can't put yourself down as a reference if you are self employed?
been exploring situations. I am considering asking a person who was a manager at a place I freelanced at till last august t ogive me a reference (but that isnt really a current employment referee even though I still work at that company).

I have no idea about another self-employed persona giving me a reference as that afaik counts more as a personal rather than an employment referee.

UCAS (depending if your doing undergrad or PG degrees) afaik want someone who isnt yourself if you are self-employed.

Im pretty miffed about the whole referee situation as I require one in order to be hired by a place I had an interview at recently (fortunately not community pharmacy :lol: ) and they sadly cant give me a job if I dont have a referee. I am willing to give them an extensive inventory of invoices generated by the employers, booking confirmations etc but yh, it is a pain (my mum, who currently temps as a secretary asked her agency re: this situation and it seems it is quite common outside our line of work as a lot of companies cant be asked - from what that agency said, I should either offer working for free for a month at the venue (something I would have to ask) OR lie to the companies I freelance at about HMRC demanding proof of doing work for them and ask them to give me a letter confirming what I do and for how many branches
Original post by marinade


Could you get a reference off a self employed person of the same nature at one of the place you've had individual jobs for?

Is there a way of communicating to agency in terms of reassuring them that a reference is often very little?

Does UCAS actually specifically say you can't put yourself down as a reference if you are self employed?
Original post by quasa
been exploring situations. I am considering asking a person who was a manager at a place I freelanced at till last august to give me a reference (but that isnt really a current employment referee even though I still work at that company).

Do this. Definitely do this. From a variety of angles, you aren't an employee, so this is the nearest available thing. You still work at that company they are the nearest thing to an employer.

I have been introduced to the weird and wonderful world of reference writing of late and I had a problem with job withdrawn due to references issues and been really shocked that all the sorts of things people do when others follow the rules or what they think is supposed to happen. I wouldn't want life changing consequences happening to you.
it is an option I am consdering,

Spoiler





also, Im curious to know how one gets into SEO (considering starting my own business however I need to learn a lot of coding as I cant find someone to help me build a web app)
(edited 4 years ago)
cheers marinade (I feel like marinading some chicken now :lol: ). Whislt I still work at that company, I havent worked at that branch for over 6 months due to the manager being an idiot


Spoiler




Original post by marinade
Do this. Definitely do this. From a variety of angles, you aren't an employee, so this is the nearest available thing. You still work at that company they are the nearest thing to an employer.

I have been introduced to the weird and wonderful world of reference writing of late and I had a problem with job withdrawn due to references issues and been really shocked that all the sorts of things people do when others follow the rules or what they think is supposed to happen. I wouldn't want life changing consequences happening to you.
Original post by quasa
TL;DR - the only work I have been able to get over the last 3 years is freelance work, however nobody wants to give me reference. This is problematic as a) UCAS requires employment references if you have been out of academia for over 5 years and b) a lot of jobs also require current employer reference (as well as personal).

When I have approached the HR departments / managers for companies I have / currently freelance at, they have refused to give me a reference based on the fact that a) I am not employed by them; and b) I am not applying to work for them.

I havent done work through agencies for a over 2 years as it is impossible to find agency work anywhere within a 3 hour daily commute (<1.5 hours between the venue and my hour) via agencies (+ it would cost more staying over than I would earn from the working).

so any suggestions?

(ps I know a lot of people will say that is illegal re: the no reference thing but speaking to my professional union's legal department, because I am not employed by them (legally) and am self-employed, they have no legal obligation to provide me an employment reference).


Why did you go straight into freelance before getting a job?
Original post by That'sGreat
Why did you go straight into freelance before getting a job?

It is a job. It's the sane choice for the sector, unless you find a er, good employer.
because there was no jobs for anyone without a minimum of 1 year experience in the sector and freelancing was literally the only way to gain work. and even after 1 year freelancing, they kept changing the experience requirements for permanent jobs I was interested in: from 1 years, to 2 years, then to 3 years. So considering the lack of fulltime jobs available to me at the time, freelancing was my only option whilst I was looking for alternative, yet now that there are alternatives - I cant find someone who is willing / allowed to give me a reference from 1 of the places I currently work at (volunteer references and past references from before I started freelancing are no problems - it is just current employers which are a pain).
Original post by That'sGreat
Why did you go straight into freelance before getting a job?
Original post by marinade
It is a job. It's the sane choice for the sector, unless you find a er, good employer.


Original post by That'sGreat
Why did you go straight into freelance before getting a job?


also the chances of finding a good employer straight out of uni i nthat sector are <10% :lol: (+ geographical location plays a good role as well as there are far more jobs up north / in the west than there are around London, east anglia and the south east - sadly I cant relocate due to personal reasons + when I was offered work by a large employer to do work around bristol, they told me 3 days before I was due to move there that the job was no longer available as apparently the manager who was in charge of a pilot scheme had left their company and as they were the only one who dealt with it, the job was no longer available)
(edited 4 years ago)
call handler is minimum wage job :lol: the OOH jobs Im after are for clincial advisor / practitioner (but like I said, id be applying to handler position just so I can gain experience in an out of hours setting and use that as an excuse to show them how serious I am about working as a clinical advisor / practitioner)


SEO market sounds a bit like pharmacy to me - ood pay when i started, bad currently.
I was considering doing some stuff for whatculture to get something on the side but have read bad things about them on glassdoor. any recommendations for article writing sites?
(edited 4 years ago)
Useful post. Might come in handy when I leave the position I've been moaning about all day on this board (hue).

OP here's a freelance writing newsletter I subscribe to: https://mailchi.mp/69d207801f23/freelancewritingjobs
Original post by quasa
TL;DR - the only work I have been able to get over the last 3 years is freelance work, however nobody wants to give me reference. This is problematic as a) UCAS requires employment references if you have been out of academia for over 5 years and b) a lot of jobs also require current employer reference (as well as personal).

so any suggestions?


There is an option on the UCAS form not to include a reference.

UCAS itself won't have a problem with you ticking that box but you need to contact the unis you are applying to, explain the situation and ask them if it would harm your application not to provide one
Im guessing you have a ltd company? I didnt want to set up one as it seemed like a hassle just to pay less tax (something Im not averse to doing as it helps fund infrastructure) + i didnt want my name, address and other detaisl being plastered on companies house website. on top of that, having an accountant would add an extra financial burden to me (regardless of when I was earning well or not). But if I were to pursue an ltd company in the future, i would definitely consider having an accountant (+ having somewhere to use as a registered address) before establishing one (currently, like I said, it isnt an option I am considering).
Original post by J-SP
As someone who is self employed, most of my references in situations like this comes from my accountant. I’d be submitting details like my earning via companies house to prove the work I have been doing.
good advice :top2:
Original post by harrysbar
There is an option on the UCAS form not to include a reference.

UCAS itself won't have a problem with you ticking that box but you need to contact the unis you are applying to, explain the situation and ask them if it would harm your application not to provide one

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