Racism Watch

Faith-akin
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I just want to ask a simple question first of all. What is Racism?
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Obolinda
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Extensive information about racism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism...ial_typologies

Racism:
-prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
-the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
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Faith-akin
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Yup that is correct.
Do you think Racism is getting better or worse?
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Obolinda
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(Original post by Faith-akin)
Yup that is correct.
Do you think Racism is getting better or worse?
Please quote me so I can see your post, I'll get notified

I think it's better than it was before but I'm not that informed about racism in society.
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Paolo3100
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racism has multiple definitions, another definition would be treating others differently because of their race
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Joleee
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i moved your thread over to Society.

you may have to be more specific tho as racism is quite a broad discussion. what are your thoughts on it? :holmes:
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Faith-akin
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Honestly, I think racism is starting to get worse all over again. In Football especially with players like; Mohamed Salah, Raheem Streling and Danny Rose who have been subjected to Racism this year .
(Original post by Obolinda)
Please quote me so I can see your post, I'll get notified

I think it's better than it was before but I'm not that informed about racism in society.
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BenK64
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(Original post by Faith-akin)
Honestly, I think racism is starting to get worse all over again. In Football especially with players like; Mohamed Salah, Raheem Streling and Danny Rose who have been subjected to Racism this year .
It’s always been there now it’s just getting more thoroughly exposed. Social media makes it a lot easier to catch them
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Faith-akin
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Honestly, Racism in society is nauseating.
Abraham Lincoln once said;" Achievement has no colour"

(Original post by Joleee)
i moved your thread over to Society.

you may have to be more specific tho as racism is quite a broad discussion. what are your thoughts on it? :holmes:
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Andrew97
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It’s getting better.

I understand that footballers examples you provide, but I would argue the racism is being reported on more, rather than it actually increasing.
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HumanBrian
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Racism is a prejudice against a person or group of people solely based on their race where race generally means skin colour. Some comes from people's experience, some is taught from early age, some might be just ignorance based in misinformation.
Not much of racism in the UK or the west in general, at least not from the indigenous population, but elsewhere it is still the default mode of thinking, often heavily mixed with tribalism.
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Faith-akin
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Yes I agree that its been reported but, there is no suitable action that is being taken.
Which leaves our diverse ethnic society feeling helpless regardless of it being reported.
(Original post by Andrew97)
It’s getting better.

I understand that footballers examples you provide, but I would argue the racism is being reported on more, rather than it actually increasing.
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fallen_acorns
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racism is a manifestation of in group/out group psychology, that's based on the color of someones skin, or their ethnicity.

Removing racism is possible - and in fact we are probably around 95% done already in the western world. Slavery is gone, segregation is gone, legal discrimination is gone, social discrimination is mostly gone etc. There are a few bad things left, but they are nothing compared to the huge amount that there was even 30 years 20 years ago.

It feels like there is a lot, because the closer you come to perfection, the greater the mistakes stand out.

That's a really key concept to grasp with things like racism. It exists because: When you start with a problem, you initially compare all subsequent results to the initial problem. Therefor everything better you do, looks like progress. But as you near completion, instead of comparing your progress to where you started, your mentality shifts, and you start comparing where you are - to where you want to finish.

In terms of race-relations that shift looks like this:

after the 1960s, people are comparing the current day to before the 1960s.. every year things get better, and we look like we are making a huge amount of progress compared to back then!

As we near perfection, it shifts.. now people don't compare the current racism problem to the 1960s, now they compare it to their end goal: perfection, 0% racism ever. Compared to that our problems shine out and look more and more glaring.. and society feels like its a long way from perfect.

So what we have seen is that since the 60s race-relations have been getting better and better, and for the most part people saw this and you had minorities reporting better and better conditions and experiences. But then you get to a tipping point where you get so close to no-racism at all, that when something bad does happen, its viewed in a much more extreme way. So in the last 5 years, you start to see race-related attitudes continuing to improve, and hate-crimes continuing to decrease.. while the perception of the prevalence of racism actually increases.

Football is a great example of this. 15 years ago fans shouting racist things at a black player didn't make the news. Now its on there every week or so. That's not because there are more racist things being shouted.. its because back then it was so so normal that it wasn't even news worthy. Then we start to tackle it, and for a while the news is positive, racism is decreasing, black players are saying good things about their treatment etc.. but after a while the standard of comparison shifts and the prevalence of incidents lowers to the point where it is a news story if something bad happens to a black player. The perception in the public is that things are getting worse, when actually things are getting far far better.

We are not perfect yet, but any minority in the UK should remember that they live:

in one of the top10 least racist places...in the least racist time in human history.

We can keep working towards no racism at all, but we need to do so under the message of "WOW, look how great we have done, and how far we have come.. now lets push and finish the job" - not "we are an awful racist nation, and we should feel guilty" - the second will lead to far more division rather than progress.
Last edited by fallen_acorns; 1 week ago
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Merridan
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The problem with racism ...Is that its thought policing...its one of those things which comes under being an a***hole generally you can ban and punish racism but the problem is this does not solve the issue.

You end up having to deploy legions of people to stop people from being objectionable - Its a self defeating exercise that is an overreach of state power
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Faith-akin
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You said black players are saying good things about they're treatment but the other day Danny Rose said ;"he can't wait to see the end of football due to the fact that he has been victimised so much and reported but nothing is being done.
Furthermore, can you name one of those players who have said good things.
(Original post by fallen_acorns)
racism is a manifestation of in group/out group psychology, that's based on the color of someones skin, or their ethnicity.

Removing racism is possible - and in fact we are probably around 95% done already in the western world. Slavery is gone, segregation is gone, legal discrimination is gone, social discrimination is mostly gone etc. There are a few bad things left, but they are nothing compared to the huge amount that there was even 30 years 20 years ago.

It feels like there is a lot, because the closer you come to perfection, the greater the mistakes stand out.

That's a really key concept to grasp with things like racism. It exists because: When you start with a problem, you initially compare all subsequent results to the initial problem. Therefor everything better you do, looks like progress. But as you near completion, instead of comparing your progress to where you started, your mentality shifts, and you start comparing where you are - to where you want to finish.

In terms of race-relations that shift looks like this:

after the 1960s, people are comparing the current day to before the 1960s.. every year things get better, and we look like we are making a huge amount of progress compared to back then!

As we near perfection, it shifts.. now people don't compare the current racism problem to the 1960s, now they compare it to their end goal: perfection, 0% racism ever. Compared to that our problems shine out and look more and more glaring.. and society feels like its a long way from perfect.

So what we have seen is that since the 60s race-relations have been getting better and better, and for the most part people saw this and you had minorities reporting better and better conditions and experiences. But then you get to a tipping point where you get so close to no-racism at all, that when something bad does happen, its viewed in a much more extreme way. So in the last 5 years, you start to see race-related attitudes continuing to improve, and hate-crimes continuing to decrease.. while the perception of the prevalence of racism actually increases.

Football is a great example of this. 15 years ago fans shouting racist things at a black player didn't make the news. Now its on there every week or so. That's not because there are more racist things being shouted.. its because back then it was so so normal that it wasn't even news worthy. Then we start to tackle it, and for a while the news is positive, racism is decreasing, black players are saying good things about their treatment etc.. but after a while the standard of comparison shifts and the prevalence of incidents lowers to the point where it is a news story if something bad happens to a black player. The perception in the public is that things are getting worse, when actually things are getting far far better.

We are not perfect yet, but any minority in the UK should remember that they live:

in one of the top10 least racist places...in the least racist time in human history.

We can keep working towards no racism at all, but we need to do so under the message of "WOW, look how great we have done, and how far we have come.. now lets push and finish the job" - not "we are an awful racist nation, and we should feel guilty" - the second will lead to far more division rather than progress.
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fallen_acorns
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(Original post by Faith-akin)
You said black players are saying good things about they're treatment but the other day Danny Rose said ;"he can't wait to see the end of football due to the fact that he has been victimised so much and reported but nothing is being done.
Furthermore, can you name one of those players who have said good things.
if you read my post carefully, you'll find that that was said about the past. That was the whole point of my thread that the curve of perceived progress does not always correlate with actual progress.

it would take me ages to go back and find player quotes from 10 years ago - I'm not going to do that. If your a football fan, who has followed the game for many years you will have seen it for yourself. Especially around the end of the last decade leading up to the 2010 world cup, the first one that was hosted in africa, there was a great sense of positive progress and a recognition of how far football has come. These days its hard to find any positives in the news around football/racism, even though clearly the progress made has been huge.
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