Shamima Begum. Should she get legal aid from Britain ? Watch

QE2
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#81
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#81
(Original post by londonmyst)
I know plenty of professional people in the legal profession who actively seek out the most controversial and downright horrifying of clients- for ideological reasons, to establish a high profile professional reputation in relation to a specific type of criminal defence caseload or as a stepping stone for a political career.
For example- serial rape cases, paedophile murder cases, alleged abusive spouse murders, human rights challenges to prison conditions/sentences of convicted criminals who acknowledge their guilt.
I also have plenty of criticisms of the conduct of specific individual lawyers who I have known since childhood and have much firsthand experience of.
Of course you do.
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Bang Outta Order
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#82
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#82
corbyn is disgusting defending her i mean how desperately leftist just for votes whilst disregarding the safety of everyone else can you get?
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QE2
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#83
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#83
(Original post by Andrew97)
It’s the job of the British government to look after British citizens and Britain.
And she may still be a British citizen. That is the whole point of being granted legal aid to challenge the government.
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Bang Outta Order
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#84
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#84
(Original post by QE2)
And she may still be a British citizen. That is the whole point of being granted legal aid to challenge the government.
national security is national security. dont be wet.
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QE2
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#85
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#85
(Original post by Themysticalegg)
I get the penalties but surely they could lie if they wanted even if the risk is extremely high and it’s completely against the oath they swore. (Not sure why they would but they still can surely) Tbh this topic will always split people in half. There’s one half who believes she should be banished and another half who believes she should be given a fair trial as per a British Citizen’s rights and these thoughts just aren’t compatible and it is in many cases not worth arguing over.
This argument isn't about what Begum did, it's about the basic right of a fair hearing and legal representation.
If she does not have dual citizenship, the British government cannot make her stateless. It is against international law.
If she does hold Bangladeshi citizenship, then the governments actions will be upheld. What she did in Syria is of zero consequence to this issue, and she is just as entitled to a fair hearing and legal representation as you or I are.
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QE2
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#86
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#86
(Original post by Themysticalegg)
you can’t make one rule for one person and a different one for another. but honestly screw her. I am completely prepared to screw democracy and human rights to get her removed.
So you would accept your own rights being removed by someone who disagrees with your position or actions. Fair enough.

So basically, no rights or laws, just every man for himself and the strongest wins. Kinda like the situation in Syria. The sort of thing you are so vehemently opposed to.

Your explanation is the perfect example of why we need such universal and immutable rights.
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Themysticalegg
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#87
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#87
(Original post by QE2)
This argument isn't about what Begum did, it's about the basic right of a fair hearing and legal representation.
If she does not have dual citizenship, the British government cannot make her stateless. It is against international law.
If she does hold Bangladeshi citizenship, then the governments actions will be upheld. What she did in Syria is of zero consequence to this issue, and she is just as entitled to a fair hearing and legal representation as you or I are.
Yeah I fully understand that it’s against international law not to allow it but I’m saying screw international law because she’s a danger to the people of the country. (I know full well what I’m saying is not legally allowed and would never be allowed to happen. What I’m suggesting also sets a dangerous precedent. I’m just saying what I believe in for this particular case.)
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Last edited by Themysticalegg; 6 days ago
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QE2
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#88
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#88
(Original post by Bang Outta Order)
corbyn is disgusting defending her
And like most people who attack Corbyn like this, you are either dishonest or a bit thick.

i mean how desperately leftist just for votes whilst disregarding the safety of everyone else can you get?
Ah, given that you think that defending Begum would be a vote-winner, I'll go for the "a bit thick" option.
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QE2
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#89
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#89
(Original post by Bang Outta Order)
national security is national security. dont be wet.
You do realise that a British citizen cannot deliberately be made stateless by the government, even if they have been really, really naughty?
No, you don't, do you.
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Bang Outta Order
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#90
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#90
(Original post by QE2)
And like most people who attack Corbyn like this, you are either dishonest or a bit thick.


Ah, given that you think that defending Begum would be a vote-winner, I'll go for the "a bit thick" option.
there goes a lefty using the typical insult without adding anything useful tactic.

corbyn will do anything, seriously.
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Blue_Cow
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#91
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#91
(Original post by Bang Outta Order)
national security is national security. dont be wet.
Ripping up the fundamentals of our justice system is exactly what this terrorist ***** wants.

Believe me, I hate Shamima Begum as much as you do.

Calling QE2 a lefty is an interesting thing to say... :holmes:
Last edited by Blue_Cow; 6 days ago
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Themysticalegg
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#92
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#92
(Original post by QE2)
So you would accept your own rights being removed by someone who disagrees with your position or actions. Fair enough.

So basically, no rights or laws, just every man for himself and the strongest wins. Kinda like the situation in Syria. The sort of thing you are so vehemently opposed to.

Your explanation is the perfect example of why we need such universal and immutable rights.
This is why I’m not in power or in a position to make these decisions and the world is better for it obviously. :P I get that I’m implying totalitarianism. I’m just saying there should be an exception to the norm for cases like these where there is potential for harm to the UK’s security and that in itself throws an entire box of new issues such as where do you draw the line. So I get what I’m saying isn’t acceptable and I understand the need for a fair justice system.
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Bang Outta Order
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#93
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#93
(Original post by Blue_Cow)
Ripping up the fundamentals of our justice system is exactly what this terrorist ***** wants.

Believe me, I hate Shamima Begum as much as you do.
it's disgusting but you know what, with people like QE2 here, let the ***** in and do as she pleases. let the ****ing place burn down for all i care. just let it burn down before Brexit so I can move to Spain quicker lol.
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QE2
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#94
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#94
(Original post by Themysticalegg)
Yeah I fully understand that it’s against international law not to allow it but I’m saying screw international law because she’s a danger to the people of the country. (I know full well what I’m saying is not legally allowed and would never be allowed to happen. What I’m suggesting also sets a dangerous precedent. I’m just saying what I believe in for this particular case.)
Yeah, but if your "argument" is just to remove the fundamental tenets of the legal system to prevent one person from getting legal representation to challenge one government ruling, I really don't see why you would bother making it.
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Blue_Cow
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#95
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#95
(Original post by QE2)
Yeah, but if your "argument" is just to remove the fundamental tenets of the legal system to prevent one person from getting legal representation to challenge one government ruling, I really don't see why you would bother making it.
PRSOM.

Thank **** the separation of powers is a thing.
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Bang Outta Order
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#96
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#96
(Original post by QE2)
You do realise that a British citizen cannot deliberately be made stateless by the government, even if they have been really, really naughty?
No, you don't, do you.
i realise and i dont give a ****.
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QE2
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#97
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#97
(Original post by Bang Outta Order)
there goes a lefty using the typical insult without adding anything useful tactic.
Not an insult, just an observation.
You said that Corbyn was "defending" Begum. He hasn't. Not once. He has merely defended her right to a fair hearing and legal representation. Something that any reasonable person with a knowledge of the law and a respect for human rights would do.
So, either you know this and you are being dishonest, or you don't know it, so a bit thick.
Hope this helped.

corbyn will do anything, seriously.
Here we go again. As this is clearly not true, you are either being dishonest or a bit thick.
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Bang Outta Order
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#98
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#98
(Original post by Blue_Cow)
Ripping up the fundamentals of our justice system is exactly what this terrorist ***** wants.

Believe me, I hate Shamima Begum as much as you do.

Calling QE2 a lefty is an interesting thing to say... :holmes:
I really couldnt care what his general political leaning is but in this specific situation he is being left wing/supporting foreign threats to your nation by arguing "rights" is very left wing and treacherous, and just absurd.
Last edited by Bang Outta Order; 6 days ago
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Bang Outta Order
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#99
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#99
(Original post by QE2)
Not an insult, just an observation.
You said that Corbyn was "defending" Begum. He hasn't. Not once. He has merely defended her right to a fair hearing and legal representation. Something that any reasonable person with a knowledge of the law and a respect for human rights would do.
So, either you know this and you are being dishonest, or you don't know it, so a bit thick.
Hope this helped.


Here we go again. As this is clearly not true, you are either being dishonest or a bit thick.
I dont need it to be explained to me...what Corbyn is doing. I see what he is doing. I don't need commentary nor narration. And he is, without a doubt, defending her. Don't play semantics with me saying "he's just defending her rights." He's defending her. Calling me thick is nothing, its just evidence that you're trying too hard to prove a point and can't do it.
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QE2
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#100
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#100
The only accurate thing he has said all night.
As a Labour voter, and a supporter of nationalisation of utilities and public transport, and UND, I wear my "Lefty" badge with pride! (Although the jury is currently out on Corbyn due to his support for Brexit)
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