M534 – Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions Condemnation Motion 2019 Watch

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Saracen's Fez
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M534 – Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions Condemnation Motion 2019, TSR Liberal Democrats
This House recognises that:
The Israeli people have a right to a Jewish homeland, as outlined in the Balfour Declaration of 1917, to ensure the safeguarding of the civil rights of the Jewish community.

The Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement, launched in 2005, has numerous ties to antisemitism, which collectively comprise a deeply dangerous attack on the civil rights of Jewish people worldwide.

The co-founder of the BDS movement, Omar Baghouti, opposes the internationally accepted stance of a two-state solution regarding Israel and Palestine, has compared the modern Israeli state to Nazi Germany, and has professed an opposition to Jewish self-determination on more than one occasion.

The Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement resembles many anti-Jewish boycotts of the past, such as the Nazi boycott of Jewish businesses in the 1930s.

The relationship between Israel and the United Kingdom is one based on prosperity, peace and unity, and failure to condemn antisemitic practices in this country would severely impede on that relationship.

This House condemns:

The BDS movement, and any other movement which opposes the right to Jewish self-determination, a core tenet of the Balfour Declaration which the UK is bound to.
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CatusStarbright
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I proffer a tentative aye.
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Samuel J. Booker
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This motion is a drastic mess of lies, exaggerations and mistruths.

First of all, BDS ties of Antisemitism are allegations, you have failed to mention this is this motion.

BDS stands and works towards a two state solution, equal rights for Palestinians as Israeli's and calls for Israel to comply with international law. This is all stated on their wikipedia and on their official website. They aim to free Palestinian people.

You have depicted them as an institutionally anti-Semitic movement, which they are not. They nearly peacefully boycott Israeli goods in an attempt to force them to comply by international law.

Anti-semitism is vile and should be demonstrated against at every opportunity, however, the unnecessary smearing of organisations that support freedom and rights for Palestinian people in Israel is disgusting, Palestinians have every right to be allowed into their homes as Israeli's.

If you can provide definite proof of BDS antisemitism, I will of course change my view, until then, I suggest you stick to the facts.
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Connor27
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I shall be voting in favour of this, the state of Israel needs our unequivocal support in the battle to defeat Islamic totalitarianism manifested by the faux-state of Palestine.
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Samuel J. Booker
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(Original post by Connor27)
I shall be voting in favour of this, the state of Israel needs our unequivocal support in the battle to defeat Islamic totalitarianism manifested by the faux-state of Palestine.
I cannot believe what I have just read.

You do realise that Palestinian women and children are being shot for something as small as retrieving a football?

If your comment had been about Jewish Totalitarianism, there would have been outrages of calls of Antisemitism.

So why is what you said deemed acceptable?
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JMR2019.
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(Original post by Samuel J. Booker)
This motion is a drastic mess of lies, exaggerations and mistruths.

First of all, BDS ties of Antisemitism are allegations, you have failed to mention this is this motion.

BDS stands and works towards a two state solution, equal rights for Palestinians as Israeli's and calls for Israel to comply with international law. This is all stated on their wikipedia and on their official website. They aim to free Palestinian people.

You have depicted them as an institutionally anti-Semitic movement, which they are not. They nearly peacefully boycott Israeli goods in an attempt to force them to comply by international law.

Anti-semitism is vile and should be demonstrated against at every opportunity, however, the unnecessary smearing of organisations that support freedom and rights for Palestinian people in Israel is disgusting, Palestinians have every right to be allowed into their homes as Israeli's.

If you can provide definite proof of BDS antisemitism, I will of course change my view, until then, I suggest you stick to the facts.
Hear hear
It is quite sad to see that this has been put forward by the Liberal Democrats.
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04MR17
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(Original post by Samuel J. Booker)
BDS stands and works towards a two state solution, equal rights for Palestinians as Israeli's and calls for Israel to comply with international law. This is all stated on their wikipedia and on their official website.

If you can provide definite proof of BDS antisemitism, I will of course change my view, until then, I suggest you stick to the facts.
BDS founder Omar Barghouti:

2011 at Socialism 2011 in Chicago, he compared Israel to Nazi Germany: “Do you want me to tell you what Germany had invented before the Nazis?”

• 2013 South North Talk in Norway: “A Jewish state in Palestine, in any shape or form, cannot but contravene the basic rights of the land’s indigenous Palestinian population and perpetuate a system of racial discrimination that ought to be opposed categorically.”

This second one is professing an opposition to Jewish self-determination and is therefore opposing the internationally accepted stance of a two-state solution regarding Israel and Palestine.

I've highlighted in bold the bit that you might want to think about before demanding "proof".
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04MR17
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(Original post by JMR2019.)
Hear hear
It is quite sad to see that this has been put forward by the Liberal Democrats.
See above.
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JMR2019.
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(Original post by 04MR17)
BDS founder Omar Barghouti:

2011 at Socialism 2011 in Chicago, he compared Israel to Nazi Germany: “Do you want me to tell you what Germany had invented before the Nazis?”

• 2013 South North Talk in Norway: “A Jewish state in Palestine, in any shape or form, cannot but contravene the basic rights of the land’s indigenous Palestinian population and perpetuate a system of racial discrimination that ought to be opposed categorically.”

This second one is professing an opposition to Jewish self-determination and is therefore opposing the internationally accepted stance of a two-state solution regarding Israel and Palestine.

I've highlighted in bold the bit that you might want to think about before demanding "proof".
There should be no Jewish state in Palestine. The Jewish state is the state of Israel - within the borders agreed upon by the United Nations. From my reading of it - he is not disputing Jewish self determination.
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Andrew97
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This could be fun, aye for now.
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04MR17
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(Original post by JMR2019.)
There should be no Jewish state in Palestine. The Jewish state is the state of Israel - within the borders agreed upon by the United Nations. From my reading of it - he is not disputing Jewish self determination.
Is he not talking about the land which was Palestine before Israel existed?
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Connor27
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(Original post by Samuel J. Booker)
I cannot believe what I have just read.

You do realise that Palestinian women and children are being shot for something as small as retrieving a football?

If your comment had been about Jewish Totalitarianism, there would have been outrages of calls of Antisemitism.

So why is what you said deemed acceptable?
Don’t do the ridiculous “look it’s a dead cat!” emotionalism routine, it’s not an appealing look at all and it’s why most reasonable, rational people consider the far left like yourself to be hate mongering parasites in their approach to political discourse.

I hope YOU do realise that the Gaza Strip is governed by an actual terrorist group, that has given legitimacy to the protocols of the elders of Zion; and openly called for the murder of Jews in its founding charter. I hope YOU do realise that these supposedly innocent Palestinians elected and gave legitimacy to this terrorist group. I hope YOU do realise that HAMAS encouraged swastika wielding thugs to throw Molotov cocktails into Israeli territory with the aim implicit aim of killing Jews and destroying Jewish property.

So don’t do the faux-outrage routine at me, YOU are supporting a totalitarian movement of pure evil simply because they are opposed to western values like freedom and capitalism. You should hang your head in shame.
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Samuel J. Booker
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(Original post by 04MR17)
BDS founder Omar Barghouti:

2011 at Socialism 2011 in Chicago, he compared Israel to Nazi Germany: “Do you want me to tell you what Germany had invented before the Nazis?”

• 2013 South North Talk in Norway: “A Jewish state in Palestine, in any shape or form, cannot but contravene the basic rights of the land’s indigenous Palestinian population and perpetuate a system of racial discrimination that ought to be opposed categorically.”

This second one is professing an opposition to Jewish self-determination and is therefore opposing the internationally accepted stance of a two-state solution regarding Israel and Palestine.

I've highlighted in bold the bit that you might want to think about before demanding "proof".
Ridiculous.

At Socialism 2011, Barghouti is merely stating that a country should not be immune to criticism because of it's technological advancements. Trying to make that anti-Semitic is the definition of smearing.

As for 2013, He's stating that the land is inherently Arabic, which is true. And of course, when a state is forcefully proposed onto an indigenous population, there will be devision and conflict. (See the colonisation of almost every country ever). As JMR said, there should be no Israeli state in Palestine. Omar is merely objecting to the Israeli presence in Palestine.

For you to claim either of these as anti-Semitic is arguable racist. You're making something out of nothing.
Last edited by Samuel J. Booker; 1 week ago
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Samuel J. Booker
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(Original post by JMR2019.)
There should be no Jewish state in Palestine. The Jewish state is the state of Israel - within the borders agreed upon by the United Nations. From my reading of it - he is not disputing Jewish self determination.
Here here, you put it better than I did.
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04MR17
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(Original post by Samuel J. Booker)
For you to claim either of these as anti-Semitic is arguable racist. You're making something out of nothing.
Nothing in my post said that. Please calm down if you want this discussion to continue.
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Samuel J. Booker
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(Original post by 04MR17)
Is he not talking about the land which was Palestine before Israel existed?
No, he isn't.

He's referring to the current boarders as drawn up by our country.
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Samuel J. Booker
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(Original post by Connor27)
Don’t do the ridiculous “look it’s a dead cat!” emotionalism routine, it’s not an appealing look at all and it’s why most reasonable, rational people consider the far left like yourself to be hate mongering parasites in their approach to political discourse.

I hope YOU do realise that the Gaza Strip is governed by an actual terrorist group, that has given legitimacy to the protocols of the elders of Zion; and openly called for the murder of Jews in its founding charter. I hope YOU do realise that these supposedly innocent Palestinians elected and gave legitimacy to this terrorist group. I hope YOU do realise that HAMAS encouraged swastika wielding thugs to throw Molotov cocktails into Israeli territory with the aim implicit aim of killing Jews and destroying Jewish property.

So don’t do the faux-outrage routine at me, YOU are supporting a totalitarian movement of pure evil simply because they are opposed to western values like freedom and capitalism. You should hang your head in shame.
Far left? Mate, SoggyCabbages will confirm to you, I am not far left.

My stance on the Israel-Palestine conflict does not affect my position on the political spectrum. It's wrong and inconsiderate of you to presume so.

Yes, atrocities have been committed on both sides, but you continue to ignore the atrocities and Human Rights violations committed by the Israeli State.

YOUR rude and condescending tone says it all. You should respect others opinions, not force your own and proclaim everyone else to be wrong.
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SankaraInBloom
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As the submitter of this motion, I will respond in kind to the comments on it in due course, but let me be frank, the behaviour and apologia for an antisemitic movement from Labour Party backbenchers is most unbefitting of a party who were fully supportive of the Balfour Declaration and the formation of the modern state of Israel under the stewardship of Clement Attlee. I tell those same backbenchers - BDS is not the hill you wish to die on.
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Saunders16
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It is a shame to see a legitimate motion only defended by an individual, and unfortunately a party leader in Connor27, who is unequivocally in support of Israel and in opposition to the State of Palestine. I support the United Nations' actions in creating Israel, and I believe that comparing Israel to Nazi Germany is almost always a tactic of anti-Semitic people. However, I also believe opposition to Palestine's existence is inherently Islamophobic. Both have a right to exist.

I am confused about the context of the two quotes debated thus far between the leader of the Liberal Democrats and my deputy leader and chair, so will await more context. I would also like to hear evidence from the author of the bill, SankaraInBloom.

I am concerned that the BDS movement has links with anti-Semitism, but I do not believe that it is inherently anti-Semitic and I think it is perfectly legitimate to challenge the lack of respect the Israeli government and Israeli Defence Force hold for human rights. I believe that to oppose terrorism, we also need to hold states to a very high standard, as the best way of challenging terrorism is providing a peaceful alternative that can bring people together.
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SankaraInBloom
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(Original post by Samuel J. Booker)
This motion is a drastic mess of lies, exaggerations and mistruths.

First of all, BDS ties of Antisemitism are allegations, you have failed to mention this is this motion.

The BDS movement is antisemitic, in the essence that it directly mirrors other antisemitic boycotts across history. You may describe it as a peaceful boycotting of Israeli goods, but wasn't the Nazi boycott of Jewish businesses defended under the same pretence? In turn, Omar Baghouri is a deeply unpleasant and vile individual, whose ethnonationalist shtick rankles with antisemites and those who wish to bring harm onto the Jewish community.

BDS stands and works towards a two state solution, equal rights for Palestinians as Israeli's and calls for Israel to comply with international law. This is all stated on their wikipedia and on their official website. They aim to free Palestinian people.

Except their founder inherently opposes the existence of an Israeli state. The right to Jewish self-determination in the wake of the Holocaust was quite frankly unalienable, and that same right remains strong now. BDS have links to those who apologise for antisemitism and employ a ridiculous double standard against Israeli actions that they would allow in other democratic nations.

You have depicted them as an institutionally anti-Semitic movement, which they are not. They nearly peacefully boycott Israeli goods in an attempt to force them to comply by international law.

Anti-semitism is vile and should be demonstrated against at every opportunity, however, the unnecessary smearing of organisations that support freedom and rights for Palestinian people in Israel is disgusting, Palestinians have every right to be allowed into their homes as Israeli's.

Palestinians have the right to prosperity and to be free of poverty. The Liberal Democrats back a two state solution. We wish to see Israelis have the right to self-determination, and we wish to see Palestine a nation free from a fundamentalist dictatorship. Movements such as BDS apologise for the latter, and criticise the legitimacy of the former.

If you can provide definite proof of BDS antisemitism, I will of course change my view, until then, I suggest you stick to the facts.
Disappointing that Labour MPs are more interested in defending a blatantly antisemitic mkvemrnt than taking a clear stance against all forms of bigotry.
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