How Israel marginalizes its Arab citizens and beds terrorists (2 articles) Watch

Reformed
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#21
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#21
(Original post by Palmyra)
I did no such thing; I merely explained how Israel is a racist ethno-State because Jews from across the world with no ancestral link to the land (I mention this because it is Israel that recourses to the history of the Jews as its official justification for occupying the land - from which I observe, quite factually, that Israel is an inherently racist ethno-state) have an automatic right to reside in that territory.

This is whilst the relatives of those Palestinians who were expelled from the land in 1948 and whom can actually trace their lineage to the land through several generations have no such rights to return to - and reside in - that land.

Once again, therefore, your analogy is totally nonsensical and shows your complete ignorance of the issue(s).
im simply calling the circumstance as i see it. im not pretending to be an expert on the regions matters simply becuase i happen to be a muslim.

the 'jews' as incumbants make their own rules and apply them accordingly - if it is in their scripture ( and it is) that this is their faiths homeland- who are we to argue? is not mecca and medina claimed as the muslims holy land- didnt mohammed have to fight many wars to gain control of them?
can you not be arrested as a non mulims trying to even enter mecca today ( let a lone live there) and indeed can a non arab claim citezenship, own land etc in various gulf nations? - where are your relveant posts about the' islamic inherent racist ethno states that arnt a million miles away?
will you start turfing out all the muslims from the regions becuase they took it from polyeithists by conquest. how is that differnt from what the jews did in 1948?
Are arabs the original 'ethno' inhabitants of this region? no Levantines, phonecians, hittites etc all existed before. and judaic tribes were certainly recorded their before any ethnic arabs arrived.

these are silly arguments from a one eyed perspective and the main reason why no such progress has been made in peace talks - everyone seems to feel some 'Divine ' right to own these lands - it wasnt all that long ago that the cathloc church was hurling army after army at the region becuase it was the birthplace of their saviour.

they are at least a democracy, unlike some other usrped lands accross the globe.
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Palmyra
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#22
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#22
(Original post by Reformed)
im simply calling the circumstance as i see it. im not pretending to be an expert on the regions matters simply becuase i happen to be a muslim.

the 'jews' as incumbants make their own rules and apply them accordingly - if it is in their scripture ( and it is) that this is their faiths homeland- who are we to argue? is not mecca and medina claimed as the muslims holy land- didnt mohammed have to fight many wars to gain control of them?
Your incoherent babble about the Persian Gulf Arabs and their banning of non-Muslims from a Muslim site of worship has nothing to do with Israel being the only explicitly ethno-state in the world today.

Basing claim to land on a fictional tale of faith is not taken a serious argument and, again, has no relation to the observation that Israel is a racist ethno-state that practices ethnic cleansing and illegally occupies the Gaza Strip, East Jerusalem, the West Bank and the Golan Heights.

If you wish to put today's Israel on the same moral pedestal as warmongering Mohammad then that's your prerogative, but superfluous to this thread.
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Reformed
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#23
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(Original post by Palmyra)
Your incoherent babble about the Persian Gulf Arabs and their banning of non-Muslims from a Muslim site of worship has nothing to do with Israel being the only explicitly ethno-state in the world today.

Basing claim to land on a fictional tale of faith is not taken a serious argument and, again, has no relation to the observation that Israel is a racist ethno-state that practices ethnic cleansing and illegally occupies the Gaza Strip, East Jerusalem, the West Bank and the Golan Heights.

If you wish to put today's Israel on the same moral pedestal as warmongering Mohammad then that's your prerogative, but superfluous to this thread.
well not jsut a particular site, but the entire city of mecca. and im not using pedestals, simply saying that its the jews chocie to impart whatever citezenship requirments they wish in thier own nation state, jsut as the muslims do, based on whatever 'fictional tales' you may regard them to be. it isnt the case that israeli arabs are denied citezenship. if muslims somehow belive the kabaa was built by ancient muslims rather than the arab pagans that used it for centuries, are we going to argue?


equally why would we ( you) bemoan one jewish state on the oldest land in recorded judaic tradition when there are dozens of islamic states accross the globe.


i was questioning where were your cries of outrage at various other regiemes across the globe - given you are clearly arguing purely form a moralistic standpoint of course
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Palmyra
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#24
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#24
(Original post by Reformed)
simply saying that its the jews chocie to impart whatever citezenship requirments they wish in thier own nation state, jsut as the muslims do, based on whatever 'fictional tales' you may regard them to be.
Of course Israel can choose whether or not to be a racist ethno-state, and clearly they have chosen to do/be that. They don't have a right to be free from criticism or others observing that their decisions render them a racist ethno-state, as I am doing.
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salimyasin10
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#25
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#25
Well that point is irrelevant coz non-muslims dont even want to go there as it is of no interest to them. Its the equivelent of muslims wanting to go to vatican city
(Original post by Reformed)
well not jsut a particular site, but the entire city of mecca.
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Reformed
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#26
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(Original post by salimyasin10)
Well that point is irrelevant coz non-muslims dont even want to go there as it is of no interest to them. Its the equivelent of muslims wanting to go to vatican city
its apoint of principle that palmyra was arguing - maybe its true noone in their right mind wants to go to mecca but it is a segregated city in this day and age. there is little international condemnation
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Reformed
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#27
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(Original post by Palmyra)
Of course Israel can choose whether or not to be a racist ethno-state, and clearly they have chosen to do/be that. They don't have a right to be free from criticism or others observing that their decisions render them a racist ethno-state, as I am doing.
you have the right to make any confused observations about any state you wish. it just looks clumsy thats all.
especially as you seem to be purely focussed on one religiously defined nation state and not others
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salimyasin10
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#28
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there is little international condemnation as there is no need to condemn it as its none of their buisiness and does not threaten peace.
(Original post by Reformed)
its apoint of principle that palmyra was arguing - maybe its true noone in their right mind wants to go to mecca but it is a segregated city in this day and age. there is little international condemnation
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Reformed
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#29
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#29
(Original post by salimyasin10)
there is little international condemnation as there is no need to condemn it as its none of their buisiness and does not threaten peace.
it is not the international communities business what goes on in saudi arabia but it is in israel?
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salimyasin10
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#30
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yes, because land was stolen from the palestinians and wars were fought in that area at least twice and there was involvement form the middle eastern countries.
(Original post by Reformed)
it is not the international communities business what goes on in saudi arabia but it is in israel?
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Reformed
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#31
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(Original post by salimyasin10)
yes, because land was stolen from the palestinians and wars were fought in that area at least twice and there was involvement form the middle eastern countries.
and there were no historic wars fought over the control of mecca?

all lands as we know them were the result of some military conflict or another
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salimyasin10
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#32
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Can you please tell me of when there was a time non-muslims were fighting over the land of mecca in the modern day.
(Original post by Reformed)
and there were no historic wars fought over the control of mecca?

all lands as we know them were the result of some military conflict or another
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Reformed
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#33
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in the modern day, non muslims are barred from entry by the arabs. i was talking about its original conquest by mohammed.

fast forward some centuries and the israelis defeat all surrounding arab armies to claim it as their own. there is little or no difference
(Original post by salimyasin10)
Can you please tell me of when there was a time non-muslims were fighting over the land of mecca in the modern day.
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Palmyra
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#34
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(Original post by Reformed)
you have the right to make any confused observations about any state you wish. it just looks clumsy thats all.
especially as you seem to be purely focussed on one religiously defined nation state and not others
Judaism is a religion but Jewish people also exist as an ethnicity. Israel is the only ethno-state in the world today. You don't seem to be able to dispute this.

(Original post by Reformed)
its apoint of principle that palmyra was arguing - maybe its true noone in their right mind wants to go to mecca but it is a segregated city in this day and age. there is little international condemnation
You're equating a city of specific importance to only Muslims (not a race) with an entire ethno-state?
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salimyasin10
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#35
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Look the non-muslims couldnt care less that they arent allowed to enter mecca.
(Original post by Reformed)
in the modern day, non muslims are barred from entry by the arabs. i was talking about its original conquest by mohammed.

fast forward some centuries and the israelis defeat all surrounding arab armies to claim it as their own. there is little or no difference
I knew you wouldnt be able to mention an invasion of mecca in the modern day coz it just proves that non-muslims couldnt care less about it.


There is a lot of difference as international laws and societies have changed and the fact that they have land is illegal yet the UN have to accept it.
Also the israelies continue to steal land from the palestinians and the fact they have taken jeruselem as their capital proves this.
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Reformed
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#36
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(Original post by Palmyra)
Judaism is a religion but Jewish people also exist as an ethnicity. Israel is the only ethno-state in the world today. You don't seem to be able to dispute this.


You're equating a city of specific importance to only Muslims (not a race) with an entire ethno-state?
race? you do understand under the broad principles of 'race' both arabs and jews are Semetic.

i havent disputed any of the above however, i did ask if you realised that non jews are also granted citezenship of israel too
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Reformed
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#37
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(Original post by salimyasin10)
Look the non-muslims couldnt care less that they arent allowed to enter mecca.

I knew you wouldnt be able to mention an invasion of mecca in the modern day coz it just proves that non-muslims couldnt care less about it.


There is a lot of difference as international laws and societies have changed and the fact that they have land is illegal yet the UN have to accept it.
Also the israelies continue to steal land from the palestinians and the fact they have taken jeruselem as their capital proves this.
no its true noone cares about mecca (apart from muslims ) because those that were previously in occupation there (polyeithists) were largely wiped out in war. but morally speaking you have no problem with this - only when its jews winning a war?
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salimyasin10
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#38
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They were never wiped out, they converted to islam by there own choice. your clearly misinformed.
(Original post by Reformed)
no its true noone cares about mecca (apart from muslims ) because those that were previously in occupation there (polyeithists) were largely wiped out in war. but morally speaking you have no problem with this - only when its jews winning a war?
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Palmyra
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#39
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#39
(Original post by Reformed)
race? you do understand under the broad principles of 'race' both arabs and jews are Semetic.

i havent disputed any of the above however, i did ask if you realised that non jews are also granted citezenship of israel too
Jews are not necessarily semitic. Not that that has anything to do with me noting that Muslims are not a race thus your obfuscating incoherent babbling about Mecca is irrelevant.

Non-Jews are granted citizenship of Israel, but did you know that 48% of Israeli Jews want all non-Jews expelled from Israel? Again, not that this has anything to do with the point that Israel is (uniquely) a racist ethno-state.
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Napp
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#40
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#40
(Original post by BlueIndigoViolet)
Hard to take sides, both sides have committed terrible atrocities, and cant go around waving a Palestinian or Israeli flag with a clear conscience.
There's a scale though, its not simply they're both bad. One uses cluster munitions and artillery barrages against civilians and the other fires poxy little home made rockets into the desert.
The Jewish people have inhabited this land for milennia, as well as a long presence of Muslims, and of great importance, to Christians.
I think you'll find the Arabs have too. Not to mention the Christians are marginalized by the regime in Tel-Aviv.
A two - state solution is preferable to achieve this delicate balance, distancing politics away from anti-Arab from parties in Israel and the anti-Semitism that is rife in Arab countries, as well as the government to stop encouraging Jewish settlements, illegal under international laws.
Lets be honest though that idea is nothing but a pipe dream. The Israelis will never give up the land they stole - Bibi recently spoke of annexing the rest of the west bank after all. Not to mention a 2 state solution is completely out of the question for all concerned. There's a good reason the Zionists torpedoed the idea.
Conflict is not the answer and has produced enough blood, and Israeli victory, over the Sinai Peninsula, and the threat of nuclear weapons, and would discourage extremist threats from Arab nations and Muslims, as like them, they have an as legitimate claim to the soil of Israel, and to Jerusalem.
Maybe true. But the fact remains negotiations and diplomacy have quite clearly failed spectacularly as well from the Palestinians point of view. They're nothing but "vermin" and "cockroaches" to be wiped out(to quote various Israeli politicians). So it rather begs the question of what exactly you expect them to do? They have no money, less land by the day, no food, no power, no water and are being murdered at an astounding rate (shooting a protester in the back with a sniper rifle is murder after all). So whilst conflict might not be the answer people want, what option is actually left open to them? To be enslaved by Tel-Aviv?
I am neither an Arab nor a Jew but given the situation those in Gaza see themselves in i can hardly fault them for taking up arms. If you having nothing to live for and your life has been deemed to be valued at nought then **** it, why shouldnt you act?

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