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Trumps reckless designation of the IRGC to have dangerous consequences

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https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/talibans-best-fighters-being-trained-by-iran-bbzc68n3m

https://thediplomat.com/2018/05/irans-support-for-the-taliban-brings-it-to-a-crossroads-with-afghanistan/

I can't speak for earlier in the Afghanistan campaign but certainly in more recent times, Iran has been supporting the Taliban. I doubt it's out of altruism though and more due to the dislike of Western forces and Afghan policy in certain regions (but then, arguably, nothing in the Middle East is done with altruism in mind) .
Original post by Tempest II
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/talibans-best-fighters-being-trained-by-iran-bbzc68n3m

https://thediplomat.com/2018/05/irans-support-for-the-taliban-brings-it-to-a-crossroads-with-afghanistan/

I can't speak for earlier in the Afghanistan campaign but certainly in more recent times, Iran has been supporting the Taliban. I doubt it's out of altruism though and more due to the dislike of Western forces and Afghan policy in certain regions (but then, arguably, nothing in the Middle East is done with altruism in mind) .

If you don't like that wait until you find out about the origins of the Taliban and America's support for the precursor Islamist group(s).
Original post by Palmyra
If you don't like that wait until you find out about the origins of the Taliban and America's support for the precursor Islamist group(s).


1980s Mujahideen =/= 1990s Taliban.
The Taliban didn't even form until the early 1990s from a faction (of which there was many) of the Mujahideen.

The fact that the only the usual suspects like Pakistan, KSA and the UAE actually recognised the Taliban regime in Afghanistan tells you how much international support they (didn't) have.
Edit
Original post by Napp
Indeed it is, however it’s an informed opinion back up by 2 reputable sources.
Have you got anything to even remotely hint to the contrary? Especially given even the USSC concurs with me on this.


It was a joke and a a quote. 😁
Original post by Tempest II
1980s Mujahideen =/= 1990s Taliban.
The Taliban didn't even form until the early 1990s from a faction (of which there was many) of the Mujahideen.

The fact that the only the usual suspects like Pakistan, KSA and the UAE actually recognised the Taliban regime in Afghanistan tells you how much international support they (didn't) have.


The 1980s Mujahideen =/= 1990s Taliban.....



You assert that Iran supported - and may continue to support - the Taliban, and yet omit the country that supported radical Islam in Afghanistan during the 1980s, which lead to the Taliban governing the country.

https://www.juancole.com/2019/04/republicans-scientific-socialism.html?fbclid=IwAR0apQedLosnLIJ2iUlNdyIxQd5LCsaeq4MYqpWnNp-y5a_nkP5cbhU-G8I
(edited 5 years ago)
Reply 46
Original post by Tempest II
1980s Mujahideen =/= 1990s Taliban.
The Taliban didn't even form until the early 1990s from a faction (of which there was many) of the Mujahideen.

The fact that the only the usual suspects like Pakistan, KSA and the UAE actually recognised the Taliban regime in Afghanistan tells you how much international support they (didn't) have.


Might one enquire why you’re de facto excusing the fact that the taliban were trained and armed, originally, by the west?
To try and lay the blame solely at the feet of Pakistan, ksa et al. Is not only lazy but it is wrong. Especially given that all of the aforementioned states are clients of a certain country and as per the onus on responsibility... well.
Original post by Napp
Might one enquire why you’re de facto excusing the fact that the taliban were trained and armed, originally, by the west?
To try and lay the blame solely at the feet of Pakistan, ksa et al. Is not only lazy but it is wrong. Especially given that all of the aforementioned states are clients of a certain country and as per the onus on responsibility... well.

It actually seems like you're desperate to blame the rise of Taliban on the West. My argument is that the Taliban didn't even form until after American support to the Mujahideen had ended following the cessation of the Soviet occupation. If you're blaming the US for the Taliban, you may as well blame the Soviets even more so for invading in 1979 and turning the entire nation into a warzone (especially if you're partial to blaming the US for the rise of Daesh - an argument not without merit due to way Iraq was handled post 2003).

It's a far lazier stance to simply assert that the West created the Taliban. The reality isn't anywhere near that clear-cut.
What is clear that nations like Pakistan (especially the ISI which still seems to support the Taliban to this day), the KSA, Qatar etc might want American support but don't particularly want to give anything other than token gestures when it comes to fighting Islamic terrorism in return - especially if they're from the same sect. The fact that Bin Laden lived for years less than a mile away from a Pakistan military academy says much about their attitude to Islamic terrorism.

I'm not saying the US is blameless - it's ironic how the 1990 Iraqi invasion of Kuwait distracted American foreign policy away from Afghanistan after the Soviets left whereas the 2003 invasion of Iraq distracted NATO from sorting out Afghanistan.


https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/who-is-responsible-for-the-taliban
Reply 48
Original post by Tempest II
It actually seems like you're desperate to blame the rise of Taliban on the West. My argument is that the Taliban didn't even form until after American support to the Mujahideen had ended following the cessation of the Soviet occupation. If you're blaming the US for the Taliban, you may as well blame the Soviets even more so for invading in 1979 and turning the entire nation into a warzone (especially if you're partial to blaming the US for the rise of Daesh - an argument not without merit due to way Iraq was handled post 2003).

I'm not desperate to blame it on anyone, i simply go where the evidence leads me.
I'm perfectly aware of how and when the Taliban formed and my point is you cannot exculpate the Americans for not only arming and training certain members of it but they created the conditions for its rise. You cannot flood a country like Afghanstan with guns and money then simply peg it when the Soviets are done, of course its going to cause a civil war with predictable consequences.
The Soviets can be blamed for many things there but they arent the ones who armed and trained militant islamists. That was entirely the work of America and her proxies.

It's a far lazier stance to simply assert that the West created the Taliban. The reality isn't anywhere near that clear-cut.
What is clear that nations like Pakistan (especially the ISI which still seems to support the Taliban to this day), the KSA, Qatar etc might want American support but don't particularly want to give anything other than token gestures when it comes to fighting Islamic terrorism in return - especially if they're from the same sect. The fact that Bin Laden lived for years less than a mile away from a Pakistan military academy says much about their attitude to Islamic terrorism.

Thats probably why i never once made that argument and to be quite frank i find it mildly offensive you'd try and assert i made such an argument.
Indeed, I wont disagree with that statement in any way. However, the fact remains that these countries did act under US direction to form, arm, finance and train the "freedom fighters" in afghanistan ... the ones which can more accurately be called terrorists.
The very simple fact of the matter is what happened in afghanistan was entirely predictable given the half assed way it was conducted and those responsible should be held to account. In this case the US being the most prominent culprit. As whilst entities like KSA et al. did the majority of the hands on work here they did so with American guns and money ( and at the beginning under their direct instruction).

I'm not saying the US is blameless - it's ironic how the 1990 Iraqi invasion of Kuwait distracted American foreign policy away from Afghanistan after the Soviets left whereas the 2003 invasion of Iraq distracted NATO from sorting out Afghanistan.

Excellent. we agree on one thing then, if not degrees at any rate.
Indeed, although with the first example the US had cut and run already by that point. In ones opinion it more seems a situation of poking the Soviets in the eye than the rather risible notion some put forth of the yanks actually wanting "freefom" for these poor sods.
As for 2003 i do tend to agree though. I'd be rather interested to have seen what happened to Afghanistan if they didnt lose focus in Iraq. With that being said i imagine it would have been much the same as it is now albeit somewhat delayed with a Taliban victory.

https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/who-is-responsible-for-the-taliban
I
nteresting article by the way. Not sure I agree with all of his conclusions but interesting nevertheless. As a side point i would reccomend reading 'triple axis' the chapter on the Afghan question is most illuminating when it comes to this question, especially with respect to Iranian and Russian views on it.

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