Extinction rebellion london protest: Arrests top 715 Watch

Poll: Is this a good way to raise awareness of the current environmental issues.
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z-hog
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#81
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What if after this we get a wave of protest by Brexiteers who feel strongly about the lack of progress, if they descend upon Central London as determined to disrupt life in it as possible? Obviously, the Mayor of London and the leadership at the Met would have to be equally tolerant and supportive. So would everyone in this wave, they would have to concede that Brexiteers should be afforded just the same treatment. If you feel strongly about something, you're above the law. That is the official line, isn't it?

Nah, these demonstrators would argue that saving the world and implementing Brexit are not in the same league and that Brexit is the wrong type of thing to demonstrate for anyway. The Mayor and the Met would fully agree, all members of the same political tribe as they are. Brexiteers would be picked off the streets one by one, the Met would be directed to kick their heads in if necessary and the Mayor would fully endorse it. You simply can't go out causing disruption to London like that, he'd say.
Last edited by z-hog; 4 weeks ago
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ThePootisPower
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#82
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(Original post by z-hog)
What if after this we get a wave of protest by Brexiteers who feel strongly about the lack of progress, if they descend upon Central London as determined to disrupt life in it as possible? Obviously, the Mayor of London and the leadership at the Met would have to be equally tolerant and supportive. So would everyone in this wave, they would have to concede that Brexiteers should be afforded just the same treatment. If you feel strongly about something, you're above the law. That is the official line, isn't it?

Nah, these demonstrators would argue that saving the world and implementing Brexit are not in the same league and that Brexit is the wrong type of thing to demonstrate for anyway. The Mayor and the Met would fully agree, all members of the same political tribe as they are. Brexiteers would be picked off the streets one by one, the Met would be directed to kick their heads in if necessary and the Mayor would fully endorse it. You simply can't go out causing disruption to London like that, he'd say.
The right to political protest, while not legally enshrined directly, is a combination of the rights of freedom of assembly, freedom of association and freedom of speech. While arrests are inevitable, if brexiteers wanted to peacefully protest against Brexit, then that's acceptable. Sure, I wouldn't agree with them like I agree with the climate protesters, but I wouldn't try to shut them down.

As long as any protest remains peaceful, like the Extinction Rebellion protests have been, then they have a right to protest without facing containment measures. Even your theoretical brexit protest would be allowed to exist without their "heads being kicked in". All protests would be faced with condemnation from the Mayor as this Extinction Rebellion protest has faced as well.

And also, remember that there's been 570 arrests. These protestors aren't getting off easy.
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Themysticalegg
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#83
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(Original post by z-hog)
Both sides of the argument!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQvxGdvbyjQ

Adam Boulton calls world-saviour and his tribe 'incompetent middle-class self-indulgent people' and he walks out on him.
There was also this. (Biker because of people blocking the road) I think he was shouting I'm an engineer I work in F***ing sustainable energy ....... You're standing in the middle of the f***ing road how are we meant to save the world when we can't even get to f***ing work. Or something like that it was actually really difficult to understand.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbBHDILTmAg
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ajj2000
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(Original post by zooxanthellae)
I was with them today. The fact that we're discussing it shows it's having an impact. Everyone I met there was peaceful and whilst there were many who fit in with the hippy stereotype, many others, including myself, did not. The fact is we have the information and the resources to make changes but it's still not happening. We have tried research, we have tried petitions. This is the next step until something changes. Yes it may be an inconvenience but ultimately this is an emergency situation and thus I believe the response is justified.
What are your proposals? Why don't the protesters put forward a manifesto for change, which can be challenged and the implications understood?
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z-hog
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(Original post by ThePootisPower)
As long as any protest remains peaceful, like the Extinction Rebellion protests have been, then they have a right to protest without facing containment measures.
How peaceful is it for them to dump a plastic boat in Oxford Circus and for the Met to leave it there for a week, with all the disruption it caused? They make no bones about it, they are out to cause massive disruption to other people. Lots of people and businesses have lost money, they don't see this as peaceful behaviour. I see it as anti-social behaviour, how much of a right does anyone have to disrupt others on purpose? How much of a right do we have not to be disturbed by a small group of people?

They would achieve as much and gain more public sympathy by booking Hyde Park in a civilized manner for a weekend, the numbers would speak for themselves. That is the right that people have, that is what we call demonstrating in a peaceful manner. It's done in this fashion because the intention is precisely to disrupt as many people as possible, all under the banner of that self-proclaimed status of world-saviour. It's a new religion.
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anarchism101
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(Original post by z-hog)
What if after this we get a wave of protest by Brexiteers who feel strongly about the lack of progress, if they descend upon Central London as determined to disrupt life in it as possible? Obviously, the Mayor of London and the leadership at the Met would have to be equally tolerant and supportive. So would everyone in this wave, they would have to concede that Brexiteers should be afforded just the same treatment.
The same treatment of hundreds of them being arrested, you mean?
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z-hog
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(Original post by anarchism101)
The same treatment of hundreds of them being arrested, you mean?
What 'arrested', that's the powers to be making it look like they're busy. They're all back in the streets and at it in no time and it's a badge of honour to them and nothing else. Of course the most extreme cases will have to be picked up but generally speaking it's all allowed to go on at leisure, Waterloo Bridge has been closed for a week. Emma Thompson flew all the way from the US to say she wants to be arrested, that's how tough it is.
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anarchism101
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(Original post by fallen_acorns)
[b]Even if we stop all emissions tommorow. The climate will change, both gradually and rapidly at times
Natural climate change at the rate we're currently going is very rare indeed in Earth's history. And the rapidity is very much part of the problem. The problem is not so much that a world 3C hotter than it is now is inherently unlivable for humans - that's not the case - it's the speed at which it is coming, in the next ~100 years rather than in the next few thousand.

Now, are we making this worse? Sure, 100%, totally, completly.. we are making out situation 100% times worse.. but think of it like this:

Climate activists tend to phrase the debate as if it were like this: Your sat in a car, and the car is going at 70mph towards a cliff.. if we act now, we can stop the car.

In reality its like this: Your sat in a car, and the car is going at 70mph towards a cliff.. if we act now we can slow down the car to 20mph.. but its still going to drive off the cliff.
Most smarter climate activists dropped the cliff framing a while back. It's not useful. To borrow Michael Mann's analogy, it's more like a minefield - we can't exactly predict when the dangers will hit, but we know that the further and faster you drive in, the more dangerous it gets.
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anarchism101
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(Original post by z-hog)
What 'arrested', that's the powers to be making it look like they're busy. They're all back in the streets and at it in no time and it's a badge of honour to them and nothing else. Of course the most extreme cases will have to be picked up but generally speaking it's all allowed to go on at leisure, Waterloo Bridge has been closed for a week. Emma Thompson flew all the way from the US to say she wants to be arrested, that's how tough it is.
That's typically how arrests, especially for first-timers, work for non-violent civil disobedience.
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Napp
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(Original post by zooxanthellae)
We are living through the 6th major mass extinction. Half of the coral reefs are already dead. If facts like these don’t terrify you then I think it is you who are not in the “real world”. If you don’t think this sort of protest is effective then please go ahead and say what will make change happen on a major scale because god we need it.
Whilst it is of course rather sad that the reefs are dying off, along with a fair whack of other various species, to call it a mass extinction ( at this point) would seem a bit over the top. not to mention the implication that this is somehow world ending, if the planet can survive asteroid strikes and multiple VEI-8 explosions (something that makes the Tsar Bomba look like a match strike) I'm sure it can KBO in some form.
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AJ126
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(Original post by z-hog)
What if after this we get a wave of protest by Brexiteers who feel strongly about the lack of progress, if they descend upon Central London as determined to disrupt life in it as possible? Obviously, the Mayor of London and the leadership at the Met would have to be equally tolerant and supportive. So would everyone in this wave, they would have to concede that Brexiteers should be afforded just the same treatment. If you feel strongly about something, you're above the law. That is the official line, isn't it?

Nah, these demonstrators would argue that saving the world and implementing Brexit are not in the same league and that Brexit is the wrong type of thing to demonstrate for anyway. The Mayor and the Met would fully agree, all members of the same political tribe as they are. Brexiteers would be picked off the streets one by one, the Met would be directed to kick their heads in if necessary and the Mayor would fully endorse it. You simply can't go out causing disruption to London like that, he'd say.
Well these people consist of students and seem to be mostly quite peaceful.They are not exactly rioting.I suspect with Brexit you probably would see rioting and the far right descending upon Westminster.Although if anyone should be rioting it is young people today because our legacy is going to be a plastic filled, overpopulated mess of a planet.We forget that those people yet to be born will be just as real as our lives are now.And we're basically screwing them over.

Tbh Brexiteers have been over indulged way too much anyway.Yeah let's do something that costs 50 billion, is inferior to any trade agreements we already have and will make us all poorer in the long run.Great idea.If Cameron had had any balls he would have told those Brexiteers Tories exactly where to go and we wouldn't be in this mess.
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AJ126
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(Original post by Napp)
Whilst it is of course rather sad that the reefs are dying off, along with a fair whack of other various species, to call it a mass extinction ( at this point) would seem a bit over the top. not to mention the implication that this is somehow world ending, if the planet can survive asteroid strikes and multiple VEI-8 explosions (something that makes the Tsar Bomba look like a match strike) I'm sure it can KBO in some form.
That's what scientists are calling it.And it's not really just the coral reefs it's everything.The planet will survive obviously.It would survive a full blown nuclear war doesn't mean our civilisation will.
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Andrew97
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The protestors have got their point across now. We know. Any more airport/road blocking now will just piss people off and screw small west end business. So what now? Does anybody actually have a solution?
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Napp
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(Original post by AJ126)
That's what scientists are calling it.And it's not really just the coral reefs it's everything.The planet will survive obviously.It would survive a full blown nuclear war doesn't mean our civilisation will.
Scientists are still somewhat divided on just what it is was my salient point.
I did say other species..
mmm the nuclear war one would be interesting, a volcano or asteroid is usually devoid of fallout but who knows. As for civilisation? I’m sure worse things could befall the planet, a point which seems to be the implicit point here as its humans bad
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AJ126
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(Original post by anarchism101)
Natural climate change at the rate we're currently going is very rare indeed in Earth's history. And the rapidity is very much part of the problem. The problem is not so much that a world 3C hotter than it is now is inherently unlivable for humans - that's not the case - it's the speed at which it is coming, in the next ~100 years rather than in the next few thousand.

Now, are we making this worse? Sure, 100%, totally, completly.. we are making out situation 100% times worse.. but think of it like this:



Most smarter climate activists dropped the cliff framing a while back. It's not useful. To borrow Michael Mann's analogy, it's more like a minefield - we can't exactly predict when the dangers will hit, but we know that the further and faster you drive in, the more dangerous it gets.
You're assuming we'd stop at 3 degrees.If we can do 3 degrees then why not 10 degrees or 15? There is no evidence it would stop at 3 degrees.Tbh human nature suggests otherwise.The last time earth was 10 degrees hotter the ice caps had lush forests.Which might be a good thing if you live there.Probably not so good if you live in say Australia though.
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AJ126
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(Original post by Napp)
Scientists are still somewhat divided on just what it is was my salient point.
I did say other species..
mmm the nuclear war one would be interesting, a volcano or asteroid is usually devoid of fallout but who knows. As for civilisation? I’m sure worse things could befall the planet, a point which seems to be the implicit point here as its humans bad
Well I don't think its actually possible for us to vaporize the planet with nukes.We'd likely destroy ourselves but after about a million years or maybe two it would probably be back to normal.Just look at Chernobyl.The wildlife there is thriving.Apparently humans are worse for wildlife than nuclear fallout is.Since no humans are allowed near there, the wildlife is doing well.
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Napp
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(Original post by AJ126)
Well I don't think its actually possible for us to vaporize the planet with nukes.We'd likely destroy ourselves but after about a million years or maybe two it would probably be back to normal.Just look at Chernobyl.The wildlife there is thriving.Apparently humans are worse for wildlife than nuclear fallout is.Since no humans are allowed near there, the wildlife is doing well.
True but Chernobyl didn’t have any form of explosion, well a nuclear one at least
The world currently has around let’s say 10,000 warheads if we put the yield at 500kt each that would be one Big Bang not to mention the fallout. But as you say who knows.
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Themysticalegg
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Update: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-47997531
'The Metropolitan Police has requested about 200 extra officers from neighbouring forces to help deal with the Extinction Rebellion protests in central London.'
There goes some of my area's police force.
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z-hog
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(Original post by Themysticalegg)
Update: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-47997531
'The Metropolitan Police has requested about 200 extra officers from neighbouring forces to help deal with the Extinction Rebellion protests in central London.'
There goes some of my area's police force.
That will be because MPs are coming back from recess this Tuesday, had they been made to put up with the 'disruption' around Westminster and the Met and the Mayor would have had their fun curtailed big time. As it is, it's only other people's inconvenience.
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cadaanshaydaan
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they’re disruspting the lives of everyday people and expecting what outcome exactly????

my biggest grievance is how cool their name is tbh they don’t deserve it
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