Woman burnt to death at Islamic school after sexual assault Watch

jjjjxxx
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#161
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#161
Im a bangladeshi and let me tell u, this is clearly to do with certain idiotic individual as our culture doesn't promote honor killing and all that bs, plus dont blame religion, islam has nothing to do with this hun


(Original post by AJ126)
How is it? Isn't Islam the dominant religion is Bangladesh? Isn't it a highly misogynistic religion? It tends to be mainly these sorts of countries where this happens.Its well known that honour killings are commonplace in certain countries.If you want to see a patriarchy look no further.
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zebraguy 20
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#162
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(Original post by Napp)
Not an unreasonable position for them to take, I rather like my Azeri friends phrasing on it in that she hates both regimes for the reputation they give to Islam. Quickly followed by most other Arab regimes for that matter.

Excellent)
I hope you do not come into the reopened thread and accuse me of being pro-saudi then
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zebraguy 20
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(Original post by Ascend)
I don't find that strange at all. Conservative principles bind Islam and the Western right more closely.
Yes that is true. I think western conservatives have lost the ideological war.
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Ascend
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(Original post by zebraguy 20)
Yes that is true. I think western conservatives have lost the ideological war.
The cultural war most definitely but they're very much in the game for political power.
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zebraguy 20
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(Original post by Ascend)
The cultural war most definitely but they're very much in the game for political power.
Yes that's true. But if they lose the war on dictating what's right and wrong, then they will become a small minority in time and not be able to get the vote to gain political power power down the line.
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username4499936
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(Original post by Ascend)
The cultural war most definitely but they're very much in the game for political power.
Meh until the older generation die off.
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QE2
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(Original post by Napp)
My opinion is irrelevant to be honest,
Ah, no. Don't be so hard on yourself. They may be ill-thought and naive, but we still care. :console:
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username4421160
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#168
(Original post by BlueIndigoViolet)
*salt levels critical*

*has nothing of value to say, starts acting childish.*
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BlueIndigoViolet
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(Original post by Homo Fuge)
*has nothing of value to say, starts acting childish.*
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ineedtorevise127
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#170
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The common denominator men. Even in Western countries we see men predominantly abuse women. Many cases where women have died in the hands of men because of domestic violence in this country by men of all colours. I don't like when people say it is because men are a particular colour, culture or religion that they do a crime. No they are just bad human beings. When white men abuse kill their wives in this country we never mention their colour or religion if they had any.

End of the day it is men who think they can get away with their behaviour. Even in this country we have many problems by men not because of their religion or colour but because they feel they can act how they want
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babyshsn786
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This has nothing to do with islam. In Islam rape and abuse is forbidden . This is a case of morality. People in power abusing their status. Barbaric act he should be punished.
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QE2
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(Original post by babyshsn786)
This has nothing to do with islam. In Islam rape is forbidden
Not so. There is no concept of "rape" in Islam, only "lawful" and "unlawful" sexual intercourse.
Sex that is classed as "rape" by law is "lawful" in Islam, while sex that the law considers acceptable is punishable by death in Islam.

In Islam abuse is forbidden
Depends how you define "abuse". Islam permits some forms of domestic and child abuse, for example.
It allows a husband to hit/beat/strike a disobedient wife (under certain conditions) and allows men to have sex with very young girls, as long as they are their wife or slave.
It also prescribes whipping people with 100 lashes for having a consensual, adult sexual relationship.
That is "abuse" to most people.

Oh, and slavery. Don't forget that slavery is permitted under Islam. I'm sure you will agree that qualifies as "abuse"?
Last edited by QE2; 2 months ago
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Napp
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(Original post by QE2)
Ah, no. Don't be so hard on yourself. They may be ill-thought and naive, but we still care. :console:
Oh truly hilarious. If only we could all be as ‘smart’ as you.
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Off.zxx
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(Original post by QE2)
Not so. There is no concept of "rape" in Islam, only "lawful" and "unlawful" sexual intercourse.
Sex that is classed as "rape" by law is "lawful" in Islam, while sex that the law considers acceptable is punishable by death in Islam.


Depends how you define "abuse". Islam permits some forms of domestic and child abuse, for example.
It allows a husband to hit/beat/strike a disobedient wife (under certain conditions) and allows men to have sex with very young girls, as long as they are their wife or slave.
It also prescribes whipping people with 100 lashes for having a consensual, adult sexual relationship.
That is "abuse" to most people.

Oh, and slavery. Don't forget that slavery is permitted under Islam. I'm sure you will agree that qualifies as "abuse"?
Most influential man to ever grace the earth, the greatest law giver and a mercy to all man kind. At the time when people were burying there daughters Muhammed gave honour to women he would treat the rich and the poor in the same way and at a time when people did not give rights to black people Muhammed gave rights to Bilal and taught people about equality black people only got there rights in the USA a 100 years ago. You talk about Aisha when Mary married 90 year old Joseph at the age of 12.Islam is the only religion that prohibits marrying a minor,Quran 24:59.In some US states marriage is legal from the age of 13.And Muhammed's tribe offered him the best of women so he would turn away from Islam but he had no desire he only married widows and divorcees. Muhammed has been criticised since prophethood but never about aishia as it was normal then and women would mature at a much younger age.
Rape is considered a serious sexual crime in Islam, and can be defined in Islamic law as: "Forcible illegal sexual intercourse by a man with a woman who is not legally married to him, without her free will and consent"
Islamic law, like the legal systems of classical antiquity and the ancient Near East, does not contain a true equivalent of the modern concept of rape, which is in turn based on the modern notions of individual autonomy and inviolability of the body, particularly the female body.
Furthermore the the rule about the 100lashes and about the role of a husband and his right over his wife are fairly straight forward ,a husband is allowed to lash his wife but he cannot leave any mark or he will be receiving sin.
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QE2
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(Original post by Off.zxx)
At the time when people were burying there daughters
There is no evidence that this was common practice in 7th century Arabia. In fact, the verse in the Quran only forbids killing "children" out of poverty. It doesn't mention a gender.

Muhammed gave honour to women
He also discriminated against them. And life for women in pre-Islamic Arabia wasn't as bad as apologists make out.
Do you think Khadija, as a single woman, would have been able to inherit her father's business empire, run it, employ men and propose marriage under Islam?
No, of course she wouldn't.

he would treat the rich and the poor in the same way
What does that mean, and of what relevance is it?

and at a time when people did not give rights to black people
Not true.
Muhammed gave rights to Bilal and taught people about equality black people only got there rights in the USA a 100 years ago.
Not sure what your point is. Bilal had no rights because he was a slave, not because he was black. Most slaves in Arabia at the time were Middle Eastern, not black.

You talk about Aisha when Mary married 90 year old Joseph at the age of 12.
There are no records of their respective ages - plus Mary was a virgin and Joseph was chaste, so no sex. The medieval depictions of him as an old man and her as a young girl are thought to be to illustrate the chaste nature of their relationship.

And anyway, how would child abuse by Joseph make child abuse by Muhammad any better?

Islam is the only religion that prohibits marrying a minor,Quran 24:59.
But that defines adulthood as "reaching puberty" which is around 9 or 10.
Also, 65:4 states that the iddah for girls too young to have started their periods is three months. Why would there need to be an iddah if they had not had sex?

Muhammed has been criticised since prophethood but never about aishia as it was normal then
But it is not acceptable now, which proves that Muhammad is not the perfect role model. If he behaved like that today, he would be arrested for rape. This proves that he was just a man of his time, not "the best of creation".

and women would mature at a much younger age.
Wrong. Evidence shows that girls reached puberty later in the ancient world.

Rape is considered a serious sexual crime in Islam,
There is no crime of "rape" in Islam.

and can be defined in Islamic law as: "Forcible illegal sexual intercourse by a man with a woman who is not legally married to him, without her free will and consent"
So if the woman is his wife, or slave/captive (you forgot to mention that) it cannot be rape.
If the woman is not his wife or slave, it is illegal whether she consents or not.

And BTW, that is the opinion of a modern lawyer. It is not from the Quran or sunnah. The article you quote from continues to state that consent was not a concept in the ancient Islam and rape is defined as "forced zina", ie, forced illegal sex. It is not possible to rape a wife or slave because it is not "zina".

Islamic law, like the legal systems of classical antiquity and the ancient Near East, does not contain a true equivalent of the modern concept of rape, which is in turn based on the modern notions of individual autonomy and inviolability of the body, particularly the female body.
Exactly!
Under Islam, marriage or ownership grants a man right of sexual access. Consent is not an issue.

Furthermore the the rule about the 100lashes and about the role of a husband and his right over his wife are fairly straight forward ,a husband is allowed to lash his wife but he cannot leave any mark or he will be receiving sin.
You are confusing two issues. The husband may strike a disobedient wife but must not cause injury and must avoid the face (nothing in the Quran or sunnah about not leaving a mark).
The 100 lashes for fornication will undoubtedly leave a mark as the Quran instructs the person doing the lashing to "not let pity stay his hand" - or in other words, don't go easy on the victim just because they are suffering.
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username4454836
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(Original post by Napp)
Lol, $20 says you can’t even point to it on a map let alone name a single fact about it.
I think most people can point to East Pakistan on a map.
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Napp
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(Original post by Decahedron)
I think most people can point to East Pakistan on a map.
I doubt it. There’s no such entity.
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QE2
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(Original post by Napp)
Oh truly hilarious. If only we could all be as ‘smart’ as you.
Do you mean "smart" as in "clever" or as in "sartorially elegant".
If you could see what I'm wearing today, I'm sure you would concede that neither is very likely.
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ibyghee
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This source should show pre islamic women https://courses.lumenlearning.com/su...slamic-arabia/
As for women taking a business, if a father had a business and a daughter and son. He would probably give it to the son. But I'm pretty sure nothing stops him from giving the business to the daughter. A woman can employ men to teach them or make them work. Aysha after the prophets death went on to teach his MALE companions about hadith. The first person the companions would go to be taught was Aysha. She was also the judge of what would happen on inheritance because of her math skills.

Bilal was persecuted at the time of the prophet by other his master just because he was Muslim. He would be dragged around, whipped and hot boulders would be put on his chest. This was because he was Muslim and so he was bought by the prophet so he wouldn't go through the trauma. Bilal was black and given freedom. Would be the same if any other race chose to be a Muslim. I think that is what he is trying to say that race was not an issue at that time.

You say that ancient people went through puberty later, so that proves that it wouldn't be 9 or 10 since that is a very early age for us right now to go through puberty. and since the Quran says you can only have da sex at the age of puberty would show that young girls of age 10 wouldn't be forced to this.

We won't talk about rape in Islam because of what happened the last time we debated on this




(Original post by QE2)
There is no evidence that this was common practice in 7th century Arabia. In fact, the verse in the Quran only forbids killing "children" out of poverty. It doesn't mention a gender.


He also discriminated against them. And life for women in pre-Islamic Arabia wasn't as bad as apologists make out.
Do you think Khadija, as a single woman, would have been able to inherit her father's business empire, run it, employ men and propose marriage under Islam?
No, of course she wouldn't.


What does that mean, and of what relevance is it?


Not true.

Not sure what your point is. Bilal had no rights because he was a slave, not because he was black. Most slaves in Arabia at the time were Middle Eastern, not black.


There are no records of their respective ages - plus Mary was a virgin and Joseph was chaste, so no sex. The medieval depictions of him as an old man and her as a young girl are thought to be to illustrate the chaste nature of their relationship.

And anyway, how would child abuse by Joseph make child abuse by Muhammad any better?


But that defines adulthood as "reaching puberty" which is around 9 or 10.
Also, 65:4 states that the iddah for girls too young to have started their periods is three months. Why would there need to be an iddah if they had not had sex?


But it is not acceptable now, which proves that Muhammad is not the perfect role model. If he behaved like that today, he would be arrested for rape. This proves that he was just a man of his time, not "the best of creation".


Wrong. Evidence shows that girls reached puberty later in the ancient world.


There is no crime of "rape" in Islam.


So if the woman is his wife, or slave/captive (you forgot to mention that) it cannot be rape.
If the woman is not his wife or slave, it is illegal whether she consents or not.

And BTW, that is the opinion of a modern lawyer. It is not from the Quran or sunnah. The article you quote from continues to state that consent was not a concept in the ancient Islam and rape is defined as "forced zina", ie, forced illegal sex. It is not possible to rape a wife or slave because it is not "zina".


Exactly!
Under Islam, marriage or ownership grants a man right of sexual access. Consent is not an issue.


You are confusing two issues. The husband may strike a disobedient wife but must not cause injury and must avoid the face (nothing in the Quran or sunnah about not leaving a mark).
The 100 lashes for fornication will undoubtedly leave a mark as the Quran instructs the person doing the lashing to "not let pity stay his hand" - or in other words, don't go easy on the victim just because they are suffering.
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QE2
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#180
(Original post by Decahedron)
I think most people can point to East Pakistan on a map.
Ooh, controversial!
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