Muslim feeling agnostic Watch

kkai
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So I'm only 16 and recently, I have been having a lot of doubts and honestly, it feels like I have been brainwashed or brought up in a cult. Some of the things that the religion teaches us just seem so ridiculous to me like it's perfectly okay to kill gay people and whip them but it's sin to listen to music and draw real life people... um okay and whenever, I try to clarify these doubts by talking to someone who's religious they can't form a logical argument or defend the religion and basically them me to shut up.. it's like they expect me to blindly follow the religion and not question anything bc that's disrespectful n all :confused:
Last edited by kkai; 4 weeks ago
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salimyasin10
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Honestly speaking to people here is the worst thing to do. If you are serious speak To a trusted imam or scholar who can give you real help and force them to give the answers you need otherwise your doubt will stay.
(Original post by kkai)
So I'm only 16 and recently, I have been having a lot of doubts and honestly, it feels like I have been brainwashed or brought up in a cult. Some of the things that the religion teaches us just seem so ridiculous to me like it's perfectly okay to kill gay people and whip them but it's sin to listen to music and draw real life people... um okay and whenever, I try to clarify these doubts by talking to someone who's religious they can't form a logical argument or defend the religion and basically them me to shut up.. it's like they expect me to blindly follow the religion and not question anything bc that's disrespectful n all :confused:
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kkai
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they just brush me off tho i have tried..
(Original post by salimyasin10)
Honestly speaking to people here is the worst thing to do. If you are serious speak To a trusted imam or scholar who can give you real help and force them to give the answers you need otherwise your doubt will stay.
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salimyasin10
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Honestly just keep trying coz speaking to people here will confuse you even more. Also emphasise the point you have doubts so that they can actually help you. Also making dua and looking behind the wisdoms of the teachings will help increase your iman and your doubts will fade away. Also ramadhan is just around the corner and it really wouldnt be good to leave islam when ramadhan is in a few days, increase your ibaadah (worship) to try and increase your iman and trust me things will get better.
(Original post by kkai)
they just brush me off tho i have tried..
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Ascend
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(Original post by salimyasin10)
Honestly speaking to people here is the worst thing to do. If you are serious speak To a trusted imam or scholar who can give you real help and force them to give the answers you need otherwise your doubt will stay.
If you are truly confident in resolving doubt, you wouldn't just restrict seeking answers from one incredibly biased source such as an imam or a Muslim 'scholar'. The idea is to be open to all viewpoints.
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salimyasin10
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im basically saying he or she should speak to somebody knowledgable and with experience of dealing with all types of muslims, it useful if he or she were to ask lets say Donald Trump as he wouldnt have the knowlegde to deal with questions and remove the doubt or give advice.
(Original post by Ascend)
If you are truly confident in resolving doubt, you wouldn't just restrict seeking answers from one incredibly biased source such as an imam or a Muslim 'scholar'. The idea is to be open to all viewpoints.
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Alisha999
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Islam is a beautiful religion. Yes it's quite strict but that's part of Islam. And i guess it's strict for a reason. There are many misinterpretations that people make from the Quran so its hard to understand what exactly is religion and what exactly is culture.
Because I feel Muslims have the tendency to get these 2 factors mixed up.
I personally do not think Islam is against homosexuality. But then I know that many people are going to attack me for saying this. But this is what I think and the way I see it.

I've realised Islam is a religion that really protects females. And I know some claim that "Muslim women are oppressed". I do not believe this to be the case. Islam sees women as being strong and being like diamonds. This is why God gave the role of childbirth to women and not males. God knew women have the strength to go through this and have the ability to bring up a child into the world God wants to protect all females and this explains why Islam does not allow anything before marriage etc. Because Allah does not want children to be brought up without the love of parents and also does not want women to be hurt.
Ofcourse there is no guarantee that every marriage will 100% work out but atleast that way women are not being used as objects and have gone into a marriage that they were happy with and if it doesn't work out then it doesn't.
In terms of listening to music... I do not understand why it's a sin but I'm guessing it's because it takes away the message from the holy book and it prevents people from listening to the message of God rather than listening to songs that have been made .

In terms of homosexuals been stoned. Allah loves everyone and surely He did not create people to be sinners. I believe sexuality is not a choice. And I do believe the brief mentioning of the story of Lot/Lut in the Bible and the Quran is about gang rape rather than homosexuality.

Some say homosexuality is forbidden due to this mentioning of Lot/Lut. If it is, I believe the thoughts and desires that a person has are not wrong but it must then be the act of carrying out such sexual desires that God does not like. And therefore is testing some people by making them have feelings for the same sex to see if they can resist the temptation. As "Allah gives his hardest battles to his strongest soldiers".
But this is the only reason I can think of as to why homosexuality may be a sin.

But I really do believe that it is not a sin. And that stoning people is just not what is expected of people to do to homosexuals!

Islam means peace and honestly it's such a beautiful religion once you have total faith in Allah. But ofcourse there are things that we question as to why it's a sin or why a certain thing is not a sin but Allah knows best. And I just wish everything in the Quran was explicitly mentioned because then there would be no need for misinterpretations and no need for people to combine culture with religion. So if homosexuality was wrong I wish it mentioned word for word.
But you're 16. You're evolving take your time to study your Deen and I pray that Allah directs you towards the correct path.

Hope this has helped a little
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TasteLikeChicken
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It's good that you're questioning.

You have already been told the 'ask a scholar', and by all means do. However, try to make sure it isn't one of those backwards (jahil, if you're Desi) ones otherwise it won't be a fruitful discussion, it will be more akin to a guilt trip and brainwashing.

Do look at both sides of the argument, watch videos about people who have left Islam, people who are critical of Islam, Muslims, Muslim converts, Muslim reformists, Orthodox Muslims, etc. Formulate your own worldview. It is my personal opinion that it is unwise to base your worldview solely on an iron age book. Regardless, it may take a while to come to a conclusion, but do your own research, but do vary up the viewpoints you read in hope to negate the bias (of Muslims, non-Muslims, atheists, etc) when it comes to religion.

Best of luck, and feel free to PM me if you want to. I went through the same thing, but I won't push you to join my 'side'.

EDIT: for the sake of clarity, I am an ex-Muslim, now an (agnostic) atheist.
Last edited by TasteLikeChicken; 4 weeks ago
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salimyasin10
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are you still muslim? just asking.
(Original post by TasteLikeChicken)
It's good that you're questioning.

You have already been told the 'ask a scholar', and by all means do. However, try to make sure it isn't one of those backwards (jahil, if you're Desi) ones otherwise it won't be a fruitful discussion, it will be more akin to a guilt trip and brainwashing.

Do look at both sides of the argument, watch videos about people who have left Islam, people who are critical of Islam, Muslims, Muslim converts, Muslim reformists, Orthodox Muslims, etc. Formulate your own worldview. It is my personal opinion that it is unwise to base your worldview solely on an iron age book. Regardless, it may take a while to come to a conclusion, but do your own research, but do vary up the viewpoints you read in hope to negate the bias (of Muslims, non-Muslims, atheists, etc) when it comes to religion.

Best of luck, and feel free to PM me if you want to. I went through the same thing, but I won't push you to join my 'side'.
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FailedMyMocks
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Belief in God is logical and natural. Read and understand the Qur'an as it is meant to be and you will realise this.

It's hard in this day and age to be a Muslim but God has created us at this time for a reason akh hang in there. I had doubts for a while but then Allah put contentment in my heart. Pray to him for guidance.
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therandomperson
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To the point about "Brainwashing"
It does seem convenient that people tend to share beliefs with the community around them (family/family friends etc.) What are the chances you were born into a community who follow the "correct" religion?

But in all seriousness it doesn't seem like the best idea if you feel brainwashed to talk to the people who supposedly brainwashed you. (Also not everyone in a religion interprets things the same way, this doesn't mean that anybody is wrong)
Last edited by therandomperson; 4 weeks ago
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Palmyra
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Agnostic feeling muslim
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TasteLikeChicken
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(Original post by Alisha999)
Islam is a beautiful religion. Yes it's quite strict but that's part of Islam. And i guess it's strict for a reason. There are many misinterpretations that people make from the Quran so its hard to understand what exactly is religion and what exactly is culture.
Because I feel Muslims have the tendency to get these 2 factors mixed up.
I personally do not think Islam is against homosexuality. But then I know that many people are going to attack me for saying this. But this is what I think and the way I see it.

I've realised Islam is a religion that really protects females. And I know some claim that "Muslim women are oppressed". I do not believe this to be the case. Islam sees women as being strong and being like diamonds. This is why God gave the role of childbirth to women and not males. God knew women have the strength to go through this and have the ability to bring up a child into the world God wants to protect all females and this explains why Islam does not allow anything before marriage etc. Because Allah does not want children to be brought up without the love of parents and also does not want women to be hurt.
Ofcourse there is no guarantee that every marriage will 100% work out but atleast that way women are not being used as objects and have gone into a marriage that they were happy with and if it doesn't work out then it doesn't.
In terms of listening to music... I do not understand why it's a sin but I'm guessing it's because it takes away the message from the holy book and it prevents people from listening to the message of God rather than listening to songs that have been made .

In terms of homosexuals been stoned. Allah loves everyone and surely He did not create people to be sinners. I believe sexuality is not a choice. And I do believe the brief mentioning of the story of Lot/Lut in the Bible and the Quran is about gang rape rather than homosexuality.

Some say homosexuality is forbidden due to this mentioning of Lot/Lut. If it is, I believe the thoughts and desires that a person has are not wrong but it must then be the act of carrying out such sexual desires that God does not like. And therefore is testing some people by making them have feelings for the same sex to see if they can resist the temptation. As "Allah gives his hardest battles to his strongest soldiers".
But this is the only reason I can think of as to why homosexuality may be a sin.

But I really do believe that it is not a sin. And that stoning people is just not what is expected of people to do to homosexuals!

Islam means peace and honestly it's such a beautiful religion once you have total faith in Allah. But ofcourse there are things that we question as to why it's a sin or why a certain thing is not a sin but Allah knows best. And I just wish everything in the Quran was explicitly mentioned because then there would be no need for misinterpretations and no need for people to combine culture with religion. So if homosexuality was wrong I wish it mentioned word for word.
But you're 16. You're evolving take your time to study your Deen and I pray that Allah directs you towards the correct path.

Hope this has helped a little
You are either confused or being dishonest.
The Story of Lot wasn't about gang rape at all, it was about homosexuality.
You can believe that Islam treats women as diamonds, but it's in the same way that pirates bury there treasure so no one can see it, desire it, and try to take it away from them.
I don't mean to be rude, it's just unfair that you're being disingenuous when OP needs help.
EDIT: oh, and the Quran explicitly states that homosexuals should be stoned to death. Don't give me the whole 'needs 4 witnesses so it won't ever be applied' rubbish, if it's not to be applied it shouldn't be in the Quran.
(Original post by salimyasin10)
are you still muslim? just asking.
Nope, and you probably think that I'm trying to misguide OP.

Remember, according to your faith, 'Allah guides whom he wills, and misguides whom he wills', I only told OP to be objective and make their own view.
Last edited by TasteLikeChicken; 4 weeks ago
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Ascend
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(Original post by salimyasin10)
im basically saying he or she should speak to somebody knowledgable and with experience of dealing with all types of muslims, it useful if he or she were to ask lets say Donald Trump as he wouldnt have the knowlegde to deal with questions and remove the doubt or give advice.
No, you are still restricting it within the narrow viewpoint of the religion. It's this very cult mentality that the OP is objecting to!

The choice isn't between your local imam and Donald Trump. There is a wide array of ideas out there to open your mind to, certainly beyond those you were brought up with.
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salimyasin10
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lol i thought you were muslim considering the way you were speaking at first.
(Original post by TasteLikeChicken)

Nope, and you probably think that I'm trying to misguide OP.

Remember, according to your faith, 'Allah guides whom he wills, and misguides whom he wills', I only told OP to be objective and make their own view.
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salimyasin10
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All im saying to the OP is that they should speak to different imams or scholar who are knowlegdable and to see what their answers are to the OP's doubts.
(Original post by Ascend)
No, you are still restricting it within the narrow viewpoint of the religion. It's this very cult mentality that the OP is objecting to!

The choice isn't between your local imam and Donald Trump. There is a wide array of ideas out there to open your mind to, certainly beyond those you were brought up with.
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TasteLikeChicken
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(Original post by salimyasin10)
lol i thought you were muslim considering the way you were speaking at first.
Ah fair enough, I don't want to enforce my ideology on someone, I just want them to make the right choice for them.
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Justbeingmyself
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(Original post by therandomperson)
To the point about "Brainwashing"
It does seem convenient that people tend to share beliefs with the community around them (family/family friends etc.) What are the chances you were born into a community who follow the "correct" religion?

But in all seriousness it doesn't seem like the best idea if you feel brainwashed to talk to the people who supposedly brainwashed you. (Also not everyone in a religion interprets things the same way, this doesn't mean that anybody is wrong)
This
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Gent2324
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ah yes, ask a devout muslim on the matter. because apostasy is ofcourse not punishable by death
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Alisha999
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(Original post by TasteLikeChicken)
You are either confused or being dishonest.
The Story of Lot wasn't about gang rape at all, it was about homosexuality.
You can believe that Islam treats women as diamonds, but it's in the same way that pirates bury there treasure so no one can see it, desire it, and try to take it away from them.
I don't mean to be rude, it's just unfair that you're being disingenuous when OP needs help.
EDIT: oh, and the Quran explicitly states that homosexuals should be stoned to death. Don't give me the whole 'needs 4 witnesses so it won't ever be applied' rubbish, if it's not to be applied it shouldn't be in the Quran.

Nope, and you probably think that I'm trying to misguide OP.

Remember, according to your faith, 'Allah guides whom he wills, and misguides whom he wills', I only told OP to be objective and make their own view.
I'm sorry for any problem caused.
I simply said what I felt was right. I was not lying to OP.
I honestly believe the story is more tailored towards gang rape and this is why I mentioned it.
As for the exact reference in the Quran, I haven't come across a statement that's tailored towards homosexuality hence this is why I claimed that it would be much easier if everything was written in black and white.

OP is his/her own person and therefore is perfectly capable of making his/her own decisions. I wasn't trying to misguide her etc.
I just wish OP all the best with whatever they decide to do
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