The Brexit Party going to crush the European Elections Watch

Fullofsurprises
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#81
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(Original post by Bashtopher)
That's a little too conspiratorial for my tastes. The EU has long been a contentious issue, and the issues at the forefront of the referendum (immigration, sovereignty etc) were the main driving forces for the vast majority of influencers. UKIP forced the hand of the Tories to get a referendum, and the rhetoric was then driven by immigration issues. I'm sure some nefarious people/organisations tried to influence the vote because they'd be able to maintain/increase their own wealth, but that's standard in every election. I mean, it's one of the main reason rich people vote Tory.
UKIP was founded by Sir James Goldsmith, a hardline libertarian extremist who believed in (and supported) fascist coups, who believed passionately that the very rich should be immune to taxes and who was offshored (naturally).

Key Brexiteers like Rees-Mogg, Farage, Hannan and their fellow travellers in the Tory Party are all died in the wool anti-state hardline radical capitalism supporters.

Farage hates the NHS (has spoken against it on US TV) and despises all forms of welfare payment by the state. Rees-Mogg favours an 18th century style 'ships and shops' culture with no taxes (he said so on Radio 4 not long ago) and Hannan is against organised states of any kind, although not presumably corporate ones.
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Bashtopher
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#82
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
UKIP was founded by Sir James Goldsmith, a hardline libertarian extremist who believed in (and supported) fascist coups, who believed passionately that the very rich should be immune to taxes and who was offshored (naturally).

Key Brexiteers like Rees-Mogg, Farage, Hannan and their fellow travellers in the Tory Party are all died in the wool anti-state hardline radical capitalism supporters.

Farage hates the NHS (has spoken against it on US TV) and despises all forms of welfare payment by the state. Rees-Mogg favours an 18th century style 'ships and shops' culture with no taxes (he said so on Radio 4 not long ago) and Hannan is against organised states of any kind, although not presumably corporate ones.
UKIP was founded by Alan Sked. James Goldsmith founded the Referendum Party. He also died in 1997, so I don't think he manipulated the referendum and result! I think that shows the conspiratorial nature of your claims right there.

Rees Mogg and Hannan are very libertarian. However, it is clear that the former drives on sovereignty more than economic policy. Hannan isn't even that prominent to most. Also, you neglect to mention Boris, a One Nation Tory who was arguable more influential than both. And, considering Rees Mogg openly states he'd support Boris as leader, it's clear that economic policy is not his driving factor.

Farage just hates the EU. I've heard him say he supports the NHS, but states that it is unsustainable and supports an insurance based model. All we know about Farage is that he constantly talks about immigration, and that he's not a fan of it. His economics are constantly questioned as they are completely inconsistent. So it's hard to say where he stands with confidence.
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the bear
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#83
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Key Brexiteers like Rees-Mogg, Farage, Hannan and their fellow travellers in the Tory Party are all died in the wool anti-state hardline radical capitalism supporters.

Farage hates the NHS (has spoken against it on US TV) and despises all forms of welfare payment by the state. Rees-Mogg favours an 18th century style 'ships and shops' culture with no taxes (he said so on Radio 4 not long ago) and Hannan is against organised states of any kind, although not presumably corporate ones.
they have not died yet.

:mad:
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Mossbourne
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
UKIP was founded by Sir James Goldsmith, a hardline libertarian extremist who believed in (and supported) fascist coups, who believed passionately that the very rich should be immune to taxes and who was offshored (naturally).
Evidence?
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Fullofsurprises
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#85
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(Original post by Bashtopher)
UKIP was founded by Alan Sked. James Goldsmith founded the Referendum Party. He also died in 1997, so I don't think he manipulated the referendum and result! I think that shows the conspiratorial nature of your claims right there.

Rees Mogg and Hannan are very libertarian. However, it is clear that the former drives on sovereignty more than economic policy. Hannan isn't even that prominent to most. Also, you neglect to mention Boris, a One Nation Tory who was arguable more influential than both. And, considering Rees Mogg openly states he'd support Boris as leader, it's clear that economic policy is not his driving factor.

Farage just hates the EU. I've heard him say he supports the NHS, but states that it is unsustainable and supports an insurance based model. All we know about Farage is that he constantly talks about immigration, and that he's not a fan of it. His economics are constantly questioned as they are completely inconsistent. So it's hard to say where he stands with confidence.
The Referendum Party was one of several organisations that developed into UKIP and Sked's Anti-Federalist Party was funded by Goldsmith, so it's hardly a conspiracy theory.

Hannan is central to the Brexit conspirators and is notable chiefly for his extreme laissez faire economic views. He may not be well known to the public, but that is irrelevant, we are not discussing the ordinary voters who simply respond in the main to the propaganda.

Farage got caught with his pants down when the US TV clips showing him denouncing the NHS were circulated, so he then tried to claim he was in favour of it.

Johnson was pro-Remain for decades and only switched to Leave as a cynical ploy as part of his campaign to oust Cameron and replace him. He also made money as a hack for the Telegraph inventing fictions about the EU which he has cheerfully admitted he only did for the pay.
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Bashtopher
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
The Referendum Party was one of several organisations that developed into UKIP and Sked's Anti-Federalist Party was funded by Goldsmith, so it's hardly a conspiracy theory.

Hannan is central to the Brexit conspirators and is notable chiefly for his extreme laissez faire economic views. He may not be well known to the public, but that is irrelevant, we are not discussing the ordinary voters who simply respond in the main to the propaganda.

Farage got caught with his pants down when the US TV clips showing him denouncing the NHS were circulated, so he then tried to claim he was in favour of it.

Johnson was pro-Remain for decades and only switched to Leave as a cynical ploy as part of his campaign to oust Cameron and replace him. He also made money as a hack for the Telegraph inventing fictions about the EU which he has cheerfully admitted he only did for the pay.
No, UKIP was founded in 1993. The Referendum Party, led by James Goldsmith, ran in the1997 election, securing far more votes than UKIP. Alan Sked, the founder and leader of UKIP at the time, shared platforms with Enoch Powell - one of the most famous anti-immigration politicians in this country ever. Yet even Sked left shortly after 1997 due to the rise of fascism within UKIP. Alternatively, Goldsmith died in 1997, and the Referendum Party was dissolved. Short story, regardless of his want for lassiez-faire capitalism, Goldsmith had nothing to do with UKIP. It is wrong to say he founded it. Similarly, it is wrong to say he was implicitly involved in its funding. He ran a party seperate to UKIP in elections!

The referendum happened because UKIP capitalised on anti-immigration rhetoric and threatened to steal votes from the Tories. It has not been a concerted effort from tax avoiders. There is no lasseiz-faire conspiracy behind the scenes.

The other stuff you say is irrelevant. In the grand scheme of things, Hannan is an MEP and author. Hardly in the position to lead any manipulation behind the scenes. Boris is fickle and cares more about himself, his leadership hopes and his wallet. This aligns with what I said about many people seeking to make themselves richer in any election.
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generallee
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#87
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(Original post by anarchism101)
Nope.

EU exports to the UK are higher than vice versa in absolute terms, sure, but that's pretty meaningless. The more meaningful indicators are the exports relative to the size of the economy. Our exports to the EU account for about 8% of our GDP, but vice versa is only about 2% of theirs (even when we measure it by individual country, not a single EU27 state has total exports to the UK reaching 8% of national GDP).

As a comparison, the EU exports more to Andorra than it imports from it, but if EU-Andorra trade suddenly stopped, Andorra would still be economically crippled overnight, while the EU would only register a minor pinprick, if that. Obviously, the UK is significantly larger than Andorra, but still significantly smaller than the EU27 as a whole.

But of course, deluding yourself with conspiracy theories is more comforting.
Yep.

(Did you seriously compare the UK economy to Andorra by the way??)
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generallee
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#88
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Carry on underestimating Farage all of you. It is working out so well!
(Original post by anarchism101)
Yes, I do. And in many ways I'd say that's the kind of dynamic which has defined Farage's career throughout both UKIP and the Brexit Party. What do so many of the people who have found their way to the top of Farage's party hierarchies have in common? Diane James, Paul Nuttall, Arron Banks, Richard Tice, Raheem Kassam, Roger Helmer, Bill Etheridge, Suzanne Evans, Neil Hamilton, Ann Widdecombe, Annunziata Rees-Mogg - all failed or disgraced former Conservatives. They oppose the "establishment" not so much out of ideological difference as out of personal bitterness that it rejected them when they felt entitled to membership of it.
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Mossbourne
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Meme of the day!
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ColinDent
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#90
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(Original post by Mossbourne)
Meme of the day!
It'd be funny if it wasn't what they actually think!
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Vinny C
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Typical... if it can't be said in one or two sentences it has no foundation in fact.
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Mossbourne
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(Original post by ColinDent)
It'd be funny if it wasn't what they actually think!
I understand, sir.

*goes off to doff cap at unelected Remoaner overlords*
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Bashtopher)
The referendum happened because UKIP capitalised on anti-immigration rhetoric and threatened to steal votes from the Tories. It has not been a concerted effort from tax avoiders. There is no lasseiz-faire conspiracy behind the scenes.

The other stuff you say is irrelevant. In the grand scheme of things, Hannan is an MEP and author. Hardly in the position to lead any manipulation behind the scenes. Boris is fickle and cares more about himself, his leadership hopes and his wallet. This aligns with what I said about many people seeking to make themselves richer in any election.
If there is no conspiracy, why is it that we cannot be told who funded Leave? All we do know is that Banks funneled vast amounts of money from sources unknown into the Facebook war machinery, which is something that has subsequently been swept under the carpet, perhaps because the Tory Party themselves are large scale recipients of dodgy (Russian) cash.

Then we have the bizarre conspiracy involving Facebook themselves and their deniable (lol) deeply embedded collaboration with Cambridge Analytica. Perish the thought that the Big Digitals might want Brexit because of their offshored tax statuses and their lavish state protections in the UK.

Hannan has been a lynchpin of the anti-EU movement for decades and combines vicious Poweliite neo-racist obsessions with a colonialist interpretation of British history and a hatred for state spending of any kind, most particularly on the NHS.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Hannan

He remains an integral part of Brexiteering and was one of the top cheerleaders for it during the Referendum.
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Mossbourne
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
If there is no conspiracy, why is it that we cannot be told who funded Leave? All we do know is that Banks funneled vast amounts of money from sources unknown into the Facebook war machinery, which is something that has subsequently been swept under the carpet, perhaps because the Tory Party themselves are large scale recipients of dodgy (Russian) cash.

Then we have the bizarre conspiracy involving Facebook themselves and their deniable (lol) deeply embedded collaboration with Cambridge Analytica. Perish the thought that the Big Digitals might want Brexit because of their offshored tax statuses and their lavish state protections in the UK.

Hannan has been a lynchpin of the anti-EU movement for decades and combines vicious Poweliite neo-racist obsessions with a colonialist interpretation of British history and a hatred for state spending of any kind, most particularly on the NHS.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Hannan

He remains an integral part of Brexiteering and was one of the top cheerleaders for it during the Referendum.
1) You're literally quoting Carole Codswallop with your "Russian money, Cambridge Analytica and dodgy tax avoiders funded Brexit" line. Shame - you could have got a full house by bringing up the Koch Brothers, "55 Tufton St" and making thinly veiled anti-Catholic references about JRM.
2) Your Wiki article completely repudiates your "Hannan is a knuckle-dragging Powellite" claim by saying he opposes Powell's views on immigration.
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Mister Fantastic
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(Original post by Vinny C)
And who are we? The Lib Dems?
Are you suggesting the Lib Dems are going to win? Bwhahahaha!
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Mister Fantastic
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(Original post by Bashtopher)
I know what it is, I've followed it for a number of years. It's a right wing propaganda website. It's a rubbish source for facts. Fantastic echo chamber, though.
A bit like The Guardian comment page.
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mkstudent
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For those who don’t want to allow the old folks to tradh their future - vote for a remain party - remainvoter.com could help you to decide who to vote for.

You vote for a party not a candidate and its no first past the post, but nor is it proportional voting. Its the de hont system.
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Bashtopher
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(Original post by Mister Fantastic)
A bit like The Guardian comment page.
Yes, the Guardian comment page is clearly opinion, not news (it is also labelled as opinion). It's also largely an echo chamber, albeit with the occasional piece by right wingers. I wouldn't go as far as calling it a propaganda page, though, in the sense of Guido Fawkes (you know, with its references to the "Looney Left" every other article).
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Bashtopher
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
If there is no conspiracy, why is it that we cannot be told who funded Leave? All we do know is that Banks funneled vast amounts of money from sources unknown into the Facebook war machinery, which is something that has subsequently been swept under the carpet, perhaps because the Tory Party themselves are large scale recipients of dodgy (Russian) cash.

Then we have the bizarre conspiracy involving Facebook themselves and their deniable (lol) deeply embedded collaboration with Cambridge Analytica. Perish the thought that the Big Digitals might want Brexit because of their offshored tax statuses and their lavish state protections in the UK.

Hannan has been a lynchpin of the anti-EU movement for decades and combines vicious Poweliite neo-racist obsessions with a colonialist interpretation of British history and a hatred for state spending of any kind, most particularly on the NHS.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Hannan

He remains an integral part of Brexiteering and was one of the top cheerleaders for it during the Referendum.
We do know who funded the campaigns to leave. Arron Banks, Crystal Palace co-owner Jeremy Hosking (shame because Palace is my club. I feel better knowing the club opens Selhurst Park to the homeless in winter), investment billionaire Peter Hargreaves, motoring entrepreneur Robert Edmiston and hedge fund manager Crispin Odey, contributed around £14.9m out of the total £24.1m in donations and loans given to the leave campaigns in the five months leading up to the referendum.

71 per cent of funding for campaigns on both sides of the argument came from the UK’s richest people.

Look, you're spewing a lot of misinformation with your conspiracy theories, and it's counterproductive to those that want to remain. The fact that you started off blaming a guy who's been dead for over 20 years, then incorrectly said he founded UKIP, then incorrectly tied his party to UKIP, speaks volumes about where your argument begins. Don't become as bad as the influential right wingers that skewed facts (or downright lied) to get brexit in the first place. It's unhelpful.

And yes, Hannan has wanted Brexit for a long time. But he's a nobody in terms of your want for a conspiracy theory. He's just an MEP/ jounarlist/author. He has no power beyond that.
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generallee
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#100
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The latest You Gov poll has the Brexit Party on twice as many votes as the next two parties combined, and with more than twice the number of Labour in second place.

That is where the hell we are, winning elections. It is what we do.

Remainers on the other hand just whinge and moan about their constant defeats and call us all nativist bigots.

Same old same old, failed Remainer tactics. Once again Farage is tearing you a new one.


(Original post by Trotsky's Iceaxe)
So currently polling on a lower percentage than UKIP obtained in the last European elections despite getting the new party/campaign launch bounce.

Come on 52%. Where the hell are you? Do you really want Brexit?
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