Got the degree? yes? A Levels? yes?experience?no! job?maybe/probably no Watch

tjblonks
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I think if the universities have tripled the fees , every student should be guaranteed some work experience. Also, more high quality apprenticeships should be introduced.

A lot of jobs want great A levels, good degree ,maybe a masters and 6 months experience for an entry level job with little pay.. or worse, for unpaid internships that you may have to pay to get to...

also.. i don't like the self-service machines in supermarkets , particularly, when you scan the item wrong and it says ,' please wait for assistance'.
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HoldThisL
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okay
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Student-95
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How can you guarantee (relevant) work experience when there are more grads than jobs?
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Blue_Cow
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(Original post by tjblonks)
I think if the universities have tripled the fees , every student should be guaranteed some work experience.
No... You can find work experience yourself. Plenty of companies offer fantastic internships with some fantastic pay packages with benefits...

Many of which will pay well above the actual London living wage/the actual UK living wage

If a student is proactive and good enough, they will find something that pays over the summer.

(Original post by tjblonks)
or worse, for unpaid internships that you may have to pay to get to...
Those are disgusting, yes. No one should have to do an unpaid internship/pay to get one. There are plenty of paid ones going around.

If you can provide some form of value to a company or if your degree and relevant skills are in demand, you will find a paid summer placement.
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tjblonks
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Ok, granted , guarantee is a strong word.What i mean to say is , the universities should at least provide a bit more value. Even secondary schools provided some. I was at uni when the fees were £3000 or less . In 2012/13 ,many universities increased then haven't increased the value of what students would get , (A lot , not all).

At the cost they are charging and requirements for a lot of graduate work, i think for many courses , it might not be worth the money. Loads of people are gonna end up in mcdonalds or doing something not related to what they studied:dontknow:. I think uni's should do a lot more
(Original post by Student-95)
How can you guarantee (relevant) work experience when there are more grads than jobs?
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tjblonks
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First point. I just think universities should have greater responsibility because of what they charge. It's not that easy or fair , depending on your profession/graduate path. There are some great places to work but getting your foot in the door can be impossible or easy. Nursing ,for example is a shortage occupation and you could get a job very easily. Engineering, some IT jobs,Law,History, Medicine , not so much.

What scared me is that a lot of good city jobs i applied for had e.g. 2000 applications for 80 jobs. The hiring managers said, at times ,95% of the applicants had the grades required i.e AAA and high 2.1. I don't know how many jobs i applied for and many employers sometimes do not respond (assume ,you have been unsuccessful). The only work experience i got was through a family friend and this is not uncommon i.e it's not what you know it's who you know:dontknow:. I am lucky and grateful but i think we need to recognise that the system doesn't work for a lot of students, not just me.

In a lot of ways ,it's better to get an apprenticeship


(Original post by Blue_Cow)
No... You can find work experience yourself. Plenty of companies offer fantastic internships with some fantastic pay packages with benefits...

Many of which will pay well above the actual London living wage/the actual UK living wage

If a student is proactive and good enough, they will find something that pays over the summer.



Those are disgusting, yes. No one should have to do an unpaid internship/pay to get one. There are plenty of paid ones going around.

If you can provide some form of value to a company or if your degree and relevant skills are in demand, you will find a paid summer placement.
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Blue_Cow
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(Original post by tjblonks)
First point. I just think universities should have greater responsibility because of what they charge. It's not that easy or fair , depending on your profession/graduate path. There are some great places to work but getting your foot in the door can be impossible or easy. Nursing ,for example is a shortage occupation and you could get a job very easily. Engineering, some IT jobs,Law,History, Medicine , not so much.

What scared me is that a lot of good city jobs i applied for had e.g. 2000 applications for 80 jobs. The hiring managers said, at times ,95% of the applicants had the grades required i.e AAA and high 2.1. I don't know how many jobs i applied for and many employers sometimes do not respond (assume ,you have been unsuccessful). The only work experience i got was through a family friend and this is not uncommon i.e it's not what you know it's who you know:dontknow:. I am lucky and grateful but i think we need to recognise that the system doesn't work for a lot of students, not just me.

In a lot of ways ,it's better to get an apprenticeship
I completely agree - apprenticeships are so appealing these days.

I wish I knew more about them whilst I was applying for uni, because the idea of being able to get a degree, get professional experience, and get paid is just the perfect package.

I think universities are just going to charge the maximum they can forever tbh. The thing is, some people will and think

Oh, Uni of X is cheaper than Uni of Y. That must mean Uni of Y is better than Uni of X!

:dontknow:

Yeah, some employers won't respond, that's just unfortunate
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marinade
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There has been a new body set up to oversee apprenticeships and many level 4-7 are being created. Just it isn't getting much publicity.

I agree now that the standard route is what you said in the opening post, a very scary place.
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Acsel
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(Original post by tjblonks)
I think if the universities have tripled the fees , every student should be guaranteed some work experience. Also, more high quality apprenticeships should be introduced.
That's wishful thinking. Unis have absolutely zero control over industry. They cannot guarantee you a job, or owrk experience, or anything similar. That's not what they do.

(Original post by tjblonks)
A lot of jobs want great A levels, good degree ,maybe a masters and 6 months experience for an entry level job with little pay.. or worse, for unpaid internships that you may have to pay to get to...
I've seen very few jobs which want A Levels or a Masters. Wanting a degree is the most common, but even then it's usually a 2:1 or higher. So they're only asking for 60% of a degree in effect.

(Original post by tjblonks)
also.. i don't like the self-service machines in supermarkets , particularly, when you scan the item wrong and it says ,' please wait for assistance'.
This sounds like a totally unrelated problem. But in my experience (working in retail for 4 years and never having had a problem with self service myself), like most technology this is often a user problem.

(Original post by tjblonks)
Ok, granted , guarantee is a strong word.What i mean to say is , the universities should at least provide a bit more value.
Most unis provide a hell of a lot of value. The issue is often that students don't want to take advantage of it. My uni offers me access to 150+ societies, various forms of support ranging from academic and job related to emotional and financial, a library with quite literally millions of physical / digital books, access to professional staff and facilities, the chance to do a year in industry and so on. It would be entirely my fault if all I did was go to my 12 hours of classes a week and didn't bother to take advantage of anything else.

Fees are up to £9250, how much value I get out of that is entirely up to me. As an adult I don't see why the uni should be force feeding me that value.
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Student-95
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(Original post by tjblonks)
Ok, granted , guarantee is a strong word.What i mean to say is , the universities should at least provide a bit more value. Even secondary schools provided some. I was at uni when the fees were £3000 or less . In 2012/13 ,many universities increased then haven't increased the value of what students would get , (A lot , not all).

At the cost they are charging and requirements for a lot of graduate work, i think for many courses , it might not be worth the money. Loads of people are gonna end up in mcdonalds or doing something not related to what they studied:dontknow:. I think uni's should do a lot more
But again, the employment issue is to do with supply and demand. No matter how amazing the unis are, if there are more grads than jobs, some people will end up at mcdonalds. You could significantly limit the intake but is it really better to deny students the opportunity to study altogether?
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That'sGreat
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(Original post by tjblonks)
I think if the universities have tripled the fees , every student should be guaranteed some work experience. Also, more high quality apprenticeships should be introduced.

A lot of jobs want great A levels, good degree ,maybe a masters and 6 months experience for an entry level job with little pay.. or worse, for unpaid internships that you may have to pay to get to...

also.. i don't like the self-service machines in supermarkets , particularly, when you scan the item wrong and it says ,' please wait for assistance'.
If you're getting entry level jobs with a masters and 6 months work experience, that's more to do with you as opposed to your uni education. That is, unless, you've decided to do a masters in something ridiculous like eSports...
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ltsmith
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don't go into university without a solid and reasonable plan to get a career at the end of it. this means you need to know what you want to do from day 1 and it has to be realistic.

don't go into fields where unpaid internships are required. be aware of the scams on that appear on facebook claiming you can do internships abroad but you have to PAY. yes people are dumb and naive enough to pay companies so they are allowed to work for them.

look at the number of applications the jobs in your field are getting. linkedin has some metrics on this. it can be quite interesting.
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tjblonks
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Yeah , a lot of people probably do now.

I think if uni's charge £9,000 and are pushing to charge more , it's getting to the point that probably not worth the money to go in the majority of cases , unless you can get a job that is worth it.

Education is good and that but we are being taken for a ride :zomg:.

(Original post by Blue_Cow)
I completely agree - apprenticeships are so appealing these days.

I wish I knew more about them whilst I was applying for uni, because the idea of being able to get a degree, get professional experience, and get paid is just the perfect package.

I think universities are just going to charge the maximum they can forever tbh. The thing is, some people will and think

Oh, Uni of X is cheaper than Uni of Y. That must mean Uni of Y is better than Uni of X!

:dontknow:

Yeah, some employers won't respond, that's just unfortunate
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tjblonks
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Oh ok cool , i didn't know about that. Thanks
(Original post by marinade)
There has been a new body set up to oversee apprenticeships and many level 4-7 are being created. Just it isn't getting much publicity.

I agree now that the standard route is what you said in the opening post, a very scary place.
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tjblonks
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Point 1. I disagree , i think universitie have some influence in what happens , even though it may not be a great deal. Many uni's work in partnership with employers. Even if not guaranteeing work , they could do a lot more considering that they will jump at the price of charging a bucket load. £9200 to £27,000 is a big jump up in price my friend.

Point 2. What some industries do is look at A levels because a lot of students are getting 2.1's. In the more difficult industries to get into , it is not the same as it used to be. Degrees have less value these days Eg if an employer advertises 30 jobs and they need 2.1 and 200 people apply , and 195 people have a 2.1 degree, they need other ways to differentiate. Look at the video for the movie 21 below, although , that was for a scholarship , i think it illustrates my point about how difficult it could be to get a good job. a good film btw:borat:.

Point 3.Lol , it is an unrelated problem. I just have had many experiences where the machine does not work or is very annoying. I would rather talk to people:dontknow:

Yeah , uni's do provide value but it depends on the uni. My gripe is that ,because of the amount of money they now charge , it is not the same value. If you go back to 2009 , many uni's provided the same value they did now. Degrees are not as valuable as they used to be and i believe that if they charge 3x as much ,they should provide 3x the value. I do understand and respect your points though.
(Original post by Acsel)
That's wishful thinking. Unis have absolutely zero control over industry. They cannot guarantee you a job, or owrk experience, or anything similar. That's not what they do.



I've seen very few jobs which want A Levels or a Masters. Wanting a degree is the most common, but even then it's usually a 2:1 or higher. So they're only asking for 60% of a degree in effect.



This sounds like a totally unrelated problem. But in my experience (working in retail for 4 years and never having had a problem with self service myself), like most technology this is often a user problem.


Most unis provide a hell of a lot of value. The issue is often that students don't want to take advantage of it. My uni offers me access to 150+ societies, various forms of support ranging from academic and job related to emotional and financial, a library with quite literally millions of physical / digital books, access to professional staff and facilities, the chance to do a year in industry and so on. It would be entirely my fault if all I did was go to my 12 hours of classes a week and didn't bother to take advantage of anything else.

Fees are up to £9250, how much value I get out of that is entirely up to me. As an adult I don't see why the uni should be force feeding me that value.
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tjblonks
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(Original post by That'sGreat)
If you're getting entry level jobs with a masters and 6 months work experience, that's more to do with you as opposed to your uni education. That is, unless, you've decided to do a masters in something ridiculous like eSports...
Depends with the job and field though init. :dontknow:
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tjblonks
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It is a bit deep though. Would you rather deny someone their dream or let them chase it if there is a high chance of failure? I think perhaps ,at the very least , universities and colleges should be upfront about the realities of the world of work.
(Original post by Student-95)
But again, the employment issue is to do with supply and demand. No matter how amazing the unis are, if there are more grads than jobs, some people will end up at mcdonalds. You could significantly limit the intake but is it really better to deny students the opportunity to study altogether?
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tjblonks
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Yeah , true dat. There used to be a ' you need to go to uni to be success' culture , soo i think a lot of people fell into that trap and went without having a plan.

I think in some industries it is sometimes unescapable. Like the other guy said , there is supply and demand soo if companies have options , they could take the piss. Look at that guy who went to the UNhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33893384. And how wealthy is the UN?
(Original post by ltsmith)
don't go into university without a solid and reasonable plan to get a career at the end of it. this means you need to know what you want to do from day 1 and it has to be realistic.

don't go into fields where unpaid internships are required. be aware of the scams on that appear on facebook claiming you can do internships abroad but you have to PAY. yes people are dumb and naive enough to pay companies so they are allowed to work for them.

look at the number of applications the jobs in your field are getting. linkedin has some metrics on this. it can be quite interesting.
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Acsel
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(Original post by tjblonks)
Point 1. I disagree , i think universitie have some influence in what happens , even though it may not be a great deal. Many uni's work in partnership with employers. Even if not guaranteeing work , they could do a lot more considering that they will jump at the price of charging a bucket load. £9200 to £27,000 is a big jump up in price my friend.
Some influence =/= every is guaranteed work experience. My uni has 25,000 students. It is outright not feasible to magic up jobs for all of them.

I also think you're putting an awful lot of faith in the influence unis have. Sure, they have some influence but in many cases that's because of an agreement that benefits both parties.

Students already have the best possible chance of getting a placement, unis cannot do much more.

(Original post by tjblonks)
Point 2. What some industries do is look at A levels because a lot of students are getting 2.1's. In the more difficult industries to get into , it is not the same as it used to be. Degrees have less value these days Eg if an employer advertises 30 jobs and they need 2.1 and 200 people apply , and 195 people have a 2.1 degree, they need other ways to differentiate. Look at the video for the movie 21 below, although , that was for a scholarship , i think it illustrates my point about how difficult it could be to get a good job.
Pretty sure employers are more interested in relevant differentiating factors. Rather than looking at academic performance below degree level, many employers are more interested in the things that matter. Soft skills. Experience. Academic achievements should make up a fairly small part of an applicants toolbox, and if an employer finds that the only differentiating factor was A Levels, the candidates probably don't have much going for them in the first place.

(Original post by tjblonks)
Point 3.Lol , it is an unrelated problem. I just have had many experiences where the machine does not work or is very annoying. I would rather talk to people:dontknow:
I can understand to that. The amount of frustration I see from customers when their self service machine didn't work is unparalleled. But then it was quite often a user error problem, which would have been avoided by following the instructions. Wonderfully a lot of the self service machines run on Windows XP, which makes them somewhat reliable.

(Original post by tjblonks)
Yeah , uni's do provide value but it depends on the uni. My gripe is that ,because of the amount of money they now charge , it is not the same value. If you go back to 2009 , many uni's provided the same value they did now. Degrees are not as valuable as they used to be and i believe that if they charge 3x as much ,they should provide 3x the value. I do understand and respect your points though.
It's a little more complicated than that. The fees seemingly tripled for students, but I'm not actually sure unis got any more money out of it. It's my understanding that budget cuts meant instead of unis being funded partly by students and partly by public funding, they are now mostly funded by students. Students pay more but unis get the same. Broadly speaking, money flows slightly differently but the amounts didn't really change. So it's tough to say students should get 3x the value, when unis don't have 3x the budget. And of course, when you factor in long term things like loan repayments and tax, the amounts probably work out similar. Besides that, fees also rise with inflation, such as when we went from £9000 to £9250.

If unis were getting £3000 per student and suddenly decided to get £9000 per student then I could agree with your premise. But that isn't really what seemed to happen. Unis were getting an amount, and are now probably getting a similar amount but from a different source. It'd be a bit like if we all had to start paying for the NHS rather than it being funded and then demanding better service. The money doesn't change and you're still paying the same amount, just in a different manner. At least that's my basic understanding of the situation.

Of note besides that, unis have been able to provide more value. Many unis are constantly trying to keep their equipment up to date, build new facilities, etc. This naturally costs more and more money, which has to come from somewhere.
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That'sGreat
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(Original post by tjblonks)
Depends with the job and field though init. :dontknow:
No. I said it's to do with the person 'init'.
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