Rape accusers to be asked to hand their phones to police Watch

ANM775
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(Original post by AngryRedhead)
Your lack of experience with people falsely accused of other crimes does not invalidate the statistics.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile...ication_detail

http://kunskapsbanken.nck.uu.se/nckk.../197/different

My main point is that if I falsely report that my car has been stolen or house has been burned down [for the insurance money or whatever] no innocent person is at risk for getting jailed for 10 yrs

yet when someone falsely accuses a rape someone's freedom is at stake [possibly could go away for 10yrs] and they are left with a terrible stigma for the rest of their lives. Therefore EXTRA measures to try and make sure the claim is not flase should be used [such as looking at alleged victims mobile phones]
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-Eirlys-
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I think it's a good idea. Someone who is being truthful and was genuinely raped wouldn't have an issue with them looking through their phone. Only those who are lying or have something to hide would have an issue. They would just have to approach it well with the accuser and not make them feel like they're asking because they don't believe them.
(Original post by ThomH97)
A tricky one this. Having their phones and everything being scrutinised by the police will obviously deter many accusers from coming forward to the police, which is clearly a bad thing. However, the move towards gathering as much relevant information as possible on the accuser and the accused from likely sources (such as phones) is motivated by several such cases collapsing after it being found that the police didn't find or disclose exonerating evidence in time, such as here.

I think it would depend on the accused's defence, if they claimed (as Allan did) that the accuser had sent them many messages pestering for sex, but then this undermines the right to a fair trial if one side has to disclose their strategy (even if it is 'tell the truth') before getting to court. It also wouldn't have found that Allan's accuser had often discussed Allan with others (so he would have no idea of it from the messages he shared with her), including rape fantasies.

Is it reasonable to require an accuser's phone and information to check if there is any information on it that would discredit them? Obviously with the burden of proof being on the accuser, it is sensible to see if there is a gaping hole in their story as soon as possible. But even if nothing were found, an absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence so this line of evidence gathering can only hurt the accuser, not help them (that I can see). They would be compelled to give evidence that can't help them (unless it contradicts the accused's story later, but we can't know what that will be), or the prosecution may not go ahead.
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ChickenMadness
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(Original post by squeakysquirrel)
I know someone whose life was ruined by a woman accusing him of rape. She had sex then immediately regretted it because she had a boyfriend and was basically cheating on him. She made up all sorts of stories about how he plied her with alcohol and drugs. He was hauled before the police, had to drop out of university through stress. Lost friends etc.

Unfortunately for her cctv showed her all over him. The people at the bar remembered her as being quite sober. He never took drugs and the case was thrown out. But mud sticks.

Eventually discovered she made a habit of accusing men of rape.
I think it is really common. I've been in a lot of situations where girls have made up lies about me for a stupid reason. Not rape specifically though. It's one of the reasons I dropped out of university actually. I was in an abusive relationship and my ex-gf made up a bunch of stuff about me and a lot of people just didn't like me anymore. And other girls have done stuff like that because I wouldn't sleep with them lmao.

I think most men will experience these things at some point in their lives.
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ANM775
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(Original post by smarley101)
Does anyone know what the cause of false rape allegations is? Why are those women who are doing that doing it?
of the cases i know of one was simply because of a rejection ...and the other [which i won't go into] was basically somewhat along the same lines only with more aggrevating factors
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AngryRedhead
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Victims of other crimes don’t attract nearly as half scrutiny or disbelief as victims of rape do and we already have a ridiculously low conviction rate of rapists as it is. Considering nearly 80% of rape is committed by someone close or known to the rapist it’s obvious to see how easily this can be used to spin the narrative into the favour of the rapist, thus allowing them to get away with the crime. Unless you believe rape is not really an issue which affects you? All this will do is dissuade genuine rape victims from coming forward.
(Original post by ANM775)
My main point is that if I falsely report that my car has been stolen or house has been burned down [for the insurance money or whatever] no innocent person is at risk for getting jailed for 10 yrs

yet when someone falsely accuses a rape someone's freedom is at stake [possibly could go away for 10yrs] and they are left with a terrible stigma for the rest of their lives. Therefore EXTRA measures to try and make sure the claim is not flase should be used [such as looking at alleged victims mobile phones]
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squeakysquirrel
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(Original post by ChickenMadness)
I think it is really common. I've been in a lot of situations where girls have made up lies about me for a stupid reason. Not rape specifically though. It's one of the reasons I dropped out of university actually. I was in an abusive relationship and my ex-gf made up a bunch of stuff about me and a lot of people just didn't like me anymore. And other girls have done stuff like that because I wouldn't sleep with them lmao.

I think most men will experience these things at some point in their lives.
And it isn't right. I feel so sorry for men - women seem to hold all the cards on this one and they can have their life ruined as a result.t

I can see it coming that couples will have to sign an agreement beforehand to consent. My own son was 16 when he had sex with a 15 year old - even now 16 years later, he is terrified that she will come after him - and he will be dragged to court on her words.I know it is unlikely he will be charged as the ages are so close.

Anyway - drop a little bit of your arrogance hey! because I wouldn't sleep with them lmao. I am sure you are a delightful superstud, but even the most beautiful age at some point
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AngryRedhead
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Statistically speaking the rate of false rape accusation is the same as other crimes: https://www.justiceinspectorates.gov...Rapelitrev.pdf
(Original post by ChickenMadness)
I think it is really common. I've been in a lot of situations where girls have made up lies about me for a stupid reason. Not rape specifically though. It's one of the reasons I dropped out of university actually. I was in an abusive relationship and my ex-gf made up a bunch of stuff about me and a lot of people just didn't like me anymore. And other girls have done stuff like that because I wouldn't sleep with them lmao.

I think most men will experience these things at some point in their lives.
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smarley101
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(Original post by ANM775)
of the cases i know of one was simply because of a rejection ...and the other [which i won't go into] was basically somewhat along the same lines only with more aggrevating factors
I see. I feel sad that postmodern progressivism has told women to be so self-centered, selfish and entitled (e.g. feminism, its you that matters, be assertive, go get it women, you are it, girl power) - and some women believe it I'm not saying all women are like this because all women are not like that! Many woman for this reason don't actually understand the implication that men can have just for having sex which include false rape accusations, pregnancy which they cannot control, child maintenance claims for 18 years, diseases (of course its mutual). Back in the day, I did sleep around at times, and that was before I really understood risk very well. Luckily I don't have to as im in a long term relationship - but I can't see myself accepting such risks even if hypothetically possible.
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ANM775
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(Original post by AngryRedhead)
Victims of other crimes don’t attract nearly as half scrutiny or disbelief as victims of rape do and we already have a ridiculously low conviction rate of rapists as it is. Considering nearly 80% of rape is committed by someone close or known to the rapist it’s obvious to see how easily this can be used to spin the narrative into the favour of the rapist, thus allowing them to get away with the crime. Unless you believe rape is not really an issue which affects you? All this will do is dissuade genuine rape victims from coming forward.

The rape conviction rate is low and tbh it should be low.
I know that will upset a lot of people but when you are talking about consequences of said rape convictions resulting in people getting imprisoned for lenghty amounts of time and having their names ruined for life there really needs to be some STRONG evidence beyond all resonable doubt imo not just one person [the girl] saying he raped me and the guy saying no i didn't.

This is the type of evidence that a lot of rape campaingers want to see men imprisoned for.

no, you need a lot more than that and rightly so

unfortunately some rapists will go free but have you ever heard the saying - "better 10 guilty persons escape than one innocent suffer"

It applies here imo
Last edited by ANM775; 3 weeks ago
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ChickenMadness
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(Original post by AngryRedhead)
Statistically speaking the rate of false rape accusation is the same as other crimes: https://www.justiceinspectorates.gov...Rapelitrev.pdf
ye but women tend to spread rumours around like that without going to the police, thats what I was getting at. Because I've experienced it myself multiple times and seen it happen to other people too. At school and University.
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Wired_1800
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(Original post by sophia5892)
But you're ignoring that the police legally have to hand that information over. Once that phone enters their possession, any evidence on it can be given to the defence. It's not up to the police to decide what evidence is irrelevant and what gets admitted to the record. They must record all information they receive and disclose all that information to the defence if there's a chance it may help the defence's case. Regardless of how irrelevant it is.

If things worked like you describe, then I'd have no problem with it. But unfortunately, that is not how the system works!
I agree, but the point is that defence lawyers can still find loopholes through any other evidence other than phone records. Cases have been thrown out due to cctv footage, crime scene etc. I don't think phone records will break a strong rape accusation.
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Notoriety
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(Original post by CoolCavy)
I can see why that would be important if it was rape by a relation or partner but for stranger rape etc idk what that would achieve
What you said to friends before, during the night, and after. Seems to get brought up a lot.
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AngryRedhead
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Men spread rumours around about women too? That they’re sluts and whatnot? So what’s your point? Both sexes are equally as capable of acting like dicks
(Original post by ChickenMadness)
ye but women tend to spread rumours around like that without going to the police, thats what I was getting at. Because I've experienced it myself multiple times and seen it happen to other people too. At school and University.
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squeakysquirrel
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(Original post by smarley101)
I see. I feel sad that postmodern progressivism has told women to be so self-centered, selfish and entitled (e.g. feminism, its you that matters, be assertive, go get it women, you are it, girl power) - and some women believe it I'm not saying all women are like this because all women are not like that! Many woman for this reason don't actually understand the implication that men can have just for having sex which include false rape accusations, pregnancy which they cannot control, child maintenance claims for 18 years, diseases (of course its mutual). Back in the day, I did sleep around at times, and that was before I really understood risk very well. Luckily I don't have to as im in a long term relationship - but I can't see myself accepting such risks even if hypothetically possible.
Ah me too - different times. I was terrified by the thought of HIV.

Nowadays men and women trot along to the local GUM clinics and get checked out before embarking on new relationships - bit of an MOT. And HIV no longer holds the fear - although I would not want it. ( Had a needlestick injury few years aback - the antiretrovirals for a month nearly killed me) Pregnancy - morning after pill. CLamydia - treatment, genital warts - burn them off. No shame in these things today sadly.
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Wired_1800
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(Original post by AngryRedhead)
Men spread rumours around about women too? That they’re sluts and whatnot? So what’s your point? Both sexes are equally as capable of acting like dicks
Surely you are not comparing a man slut-shaming a woman to a woman falsely accusing a man of sexual violence or rape?
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AngryRedhead
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I don’t know about you but I would rather not have ten rapists walking around outside free because the defence team of the accused decided that because the rapist was known to the victim that somehow made what happened consensual. Of course because you’re a man this issue doesn’t really affect you so you don’t give a **** about the safety of women, statistics be damned, right? https://www.justiceinspectorates.gov...Rapelitrev.pdf

If you had any idea about the amount of crap women do on a daily basis to avoid being the victim of some heinous crime like rape or theft you might change your mind
(Original post by ANM775)
The rape conviction rate is low and tbh it should be low.
I know that will upset a lot of people but when you are talking about consequences of said rape convictions resulting in people getting imprisoned for lenghty amounts of time and having their names ruined for life there really needs to be some STRONG evidence beyond all resonable doubt imo not just one person [the girl] saying he raped me and the guy saying no she didn't.

This is the type of evidence that a lot of rape campaingers want to see men imprisoned for.

no, you need a lot more than that and rightly so

unfortunately some rapists will go free but have you ever heard the saying - "better 10 guilty persons escape than one innocent suffer"

It applies here imo
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ANM775
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(Original post by squeakysquirrel)
And it isn't right. I feel so sorry for men - women seem to hold all the cards on this one and they can have their life ruined as a result.t

I can see it coming that couples will have to sign an agreement beforehand to consent. My own son was 16 when he had sex with a 15 year old - even now 16 years later, he is terrified that she will come after him - and he will be dragged to court on her words.I know it is unlikely he will be charged as the ages are so close.

Anyway - drop a little bit of your arrogance hey! because I wouldn't sleep with them lmao. I am sure you are a delightful superstud, but even the most beautiful age at some point
Is he famous?

then he have nothing to worry about.

If he's famous though then he should be a little concerned as people love to dig up the past of famous people if they think they can make a quick buck.

probably wouldn't get convicted as the ages are so close but it would tarnish him name slightly
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AngryRedhead
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The rate of false rape accusation is the same as the rate of false accusation for other crimes and even then the false rape accusations are for the most part down to memory error; not maliciousness on the part of the woman

https://www.justiceinspectorates.gov...Rapelitrev.pdf

Both kinds of rumour mongering can severely damage an individuals reputation. Being called a slut for a woman can be as damaging socially as a man being called a rapist
(Original post by Wired_1800)
Surely you are not comparing a man slut-shaming a woman to a woman falsely accusing a man of sexual violence or rape?
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Andrew97
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This story making a lot of headlines. Interestingly under the title
“Rape victims asked to hand phones to police” is it me, or is this an irresponsible headline pushing an agenda?
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ChickenMadness
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(Original post by AngryRedhead)
The rate of false rape accusation is the same as the rate of false accusation for other crimes and even then the false rape accusations are for the most part down to memory error; not maliciousness on the part of the woman

https://www.justiceinspectorates.gov...Rapelitrev.pdf

Both kinds of rumour mongering can severely damage an individuals reputation. Being called a slut for a woman can be as damaging socially as a man being called a rapist
That is ridiculous.

You're not going to be shunned by society because people think you've had sex with too many men.
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