EU students being gamed out of the system Watch

Realitysreflexx
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Though it's obviously fair that EU students pay more, and i personally am very lucky to have been one of the lucky ones to get a british degree (graduate next year) with the current rules and cannot complain.

The broader question that i think needs to be asked is, why does a UK education need to cost so much in the first place, is the high cost the only way to guarantee rankings?

Obviously at the top and the majority of the established Russell group is globally well ranked. But there doesn't seem to be much upward mobility for the remainder of the sector. I highly doubt reduced fees overall would diminish rankings as many argue.

Taxes in a nation as developed as the UK should surely be enough to finance free or highly subsidised education, as in Germany, The Netherlands, Italy, and Switzerland, Sweden etc.

This seems like more UK government mismanagement of funds. IF anything remove the loans for EU students but respect the closer relationship and the fact that many projects on UK universities, my own decent one included have been funded vastly be EU pool funds and EU research grants to publish those papers!!!!

I would suggest a flat fee for all at around £6,000...

Loans for UK as normal and equal fees for EU but no upfront loans. I can understand the risk of not having an incentive to repay.
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ltsmith
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they can come to scotland for a free education. this only works because of quotas.

world rankings are arbitrary and practically useless for anything other than understanding how active a university is in a particular field of research.

as for taxes, being enough. no. not with so many people going to university.
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Themysticalegg
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Think the problem was once they put fees from £1000 -> £3000 -> £9000 the entire university network relies on it now. It's very hard to reverse when many universities rely on this funding to survive and the government doesn't want universities to collapse as many local economies (poorer city economies for sure such as Swansea) rely on university employment and the student's incomes on expenditure locally such as at shops and markets.
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Notoriety
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Realitysreflexx
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Could in theory make the scottish universities some of the most selective in the planet, overnight.
(Original post by ltsmith)
they can come to scotland for a free education. this only works because of quotas.

world rankings are arbitrary and practically useless for anything other than understanding how active a university is in a particular field of research.

as for taxes, being enough. no. not with so many people going to university.
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Realitysreflexx
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Which is why i suggested a small haircut of £3,000....£6,000 should work and can be made up with international demand. Really it just makes sure only the most high class global citizens get a British education. Which in theory isn't a bad strategy.

Universities don't need to go belly up, the government is going to have to print alot of money and pump fiscal stimulus in regardless, due to Brexit.
(Original post by Themysticalegg)
Think the problem was once they put fees from £1000 -> £3000 -> £9000 the entire university network relies on it now. It's very hard to reverse when many universities rely on this funding to survive and the government doesn't want universities to collapse as many local economies (poorer city economies for sure such as Swansea) rely on university employment and the student's incomes on expenditure locally such as at shops and markets.
Last edited by Realitysreflexx; 2 weeks ago
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ltsmith
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(Original post by Realitysreflexx)
Could in theory make the scottish universities some of the most selective in the planet, overnight.
they are some of the most selective in the country atm. https://www.ed.ac.uk/student-recruit...ons-statistics look at university of edinburgh's admission statistics for EU students vs non-EU students. there's a huge huge difference and the students we have from EU are the best of the best students from their country.

e.g. business studies for EU students has 9% acceptance rate. business studies for non-EU students has 61% acceptance rate.

i'd say the most selective universities on the planet are either the top chinese universities or the indian IITs due to competition and population density.
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drbluebox
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(Original post by Realitysreflexx)
Could in theory make the scottish universities some of the most selective in the planet, overnight.
Funnily enough you have more non Scottish students at Scottish universities than Scottish I remember out of curiousity checking during clearing this year, plenty of spaces at university nearest me but ALL for non Scottish students, that meante a English person could apply and get in but not Scottish.
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BlueIndigoViolet
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true, though a lot of the big name unis can afford to cover the costs, many depend of income from these courses to run them, agree about the EU students, if we leave the EU, utterly bizzare why we would charge them lower rates than internationals
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Themysticalegg
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The government are considering a tuition fee cut by the way.

Ref: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-47405054
(Original post by Realitysreflexx)
Which is why i suggested a small haircut of £3,000....£6,000 should work and can be made up with international demand. Really it just makes sure only the most high class global citizens get a British education. Which in theory isn't a bad strategy.

Universities don't need to go belly up, the government is going to have to print alot of money and pump fiscal stimulus in regardless, due to Brexit.
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Realitysreflexx
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Edinburgh is already one of the most selective in the UK regardless, i was aware of this... But it could prop up some of lesser names, like Strathclyde (know there business school is amazing, but not so globally known), Aberdeen, etc I'm not going to embarass myself and misspell scottish uni's names lol. But i think you get the idea.
(Original post by ltsmith)
they are some of the most selective in the country atm. https://www.ed.ac.uk/student-recruit...ons-statistics look at university of edinburgh's admission statistics for EU students vs non-EU students. there's a huge huge difference and the students we have from EU are the best of the best students from their country.

e.g. business studies for EU students has 9% acceptance rate. business studies for non-EU students has 61% acceptance rate.

i'd say the most selective universities on the planet are either the top chinese universities or the indian IITs due to competition and population density.
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Neilos
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I think the current system is broadly fine as it is. Tons of places exist, everyone who wants to go can go, and those who benefit pay back the most. It's about as good as it's ever likely to get.

International fees can be a little high... but whatever they're set at, I think they should be the same for everyone (EU and non-EU).
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Realitysreflexx
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That probably came down to applications, don't forget those from England can enter into Year 2, which gives them a huge advantage. Alot of people start and don't return after first year. On average 10% disappear from a class due to multiple reasons.
(Original post by drbluebox)
Funnily enough you have more non Scottish students at Scottish universities than Scottish I remember out of curiousity checking during clearing this year, plenty of spaces at university nearest me but ALL for non Scottish students, that meante a English person could apply and get in but not Scottish.
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Themysticalegg
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Honestly University in the UK is fine, unless you get a graduate scheme job you are less likely to break the boundary needed to pay back the loan... Think the threshold is £25750 or something. When people do break this boundary many are not able to repay their loans so it gets written off. University for UK students isn't as expensive as it may seem. At £30,000 I only need to pay back £360 which is a tiny fraction of my salary.

Whilst taking loans in other countries is practically death, the UK system is very fair in my opinion.
Last edited by Themysticalegg; 2 weeks ago
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yudothis
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I did study in the UK, but would never allow my kids to go unless something changes. People are so hung up on rankings, but they literally mean **** all. There are so many good universities in Germany, The Netherlands, Switzerland, at a fraction of the cost.
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Realitysreflexx
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Rankings should have meaning depending on subject. I personally am very happy with my british degree, but if your smart you can always get into one of the top European jewels in the specific country you live.

Though my situation despite being german is fairly unique as I'm German-American, i never went to school in Germany so English as a medium of instruction was very important to have as an option. My german is native level but only in spoken language, i can of course read and write self taught, but that's probably not enough to make uni easy sailing. It's sad that Europe has to splinter like this though, and i think thats the real sad part. The UK is seperated by just a tiny channel... No point in going off on a defensive, solo mission. That isn't bringing positives for anyone.
(Original post by yudothis)
I did study in the UK, but would never allow my kids to go unless something changes. People are so hung up on rankings, but they literally mean **** all. There are so many good universities in Germany, The Netherlands, Switzerland, at a fraction of the cost.
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yudothis
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In terms of teaching, you don't need to be at a "jewel" to get the same as a Russel Group British university. This is soooo overrated. I did not take up my offer to study a masters at Cambridge and I do not regret it one bit. In fact, I probably have a much better life because of it.

It is splintering because many have the belief that imaginary lines in the sand have some deeper meaning.
(Original post by Realitysreflexx)
Rankings should have meaning depending on subject. I personally am very happy with my british degree, but if your smart you can always get into one of the top European jewels in the specific country you live.

Though my situation despite being german is fairly unique as I'm German-American, i never went to school in Germany so English as a medium of instruction was very important to have as an option. My german is native level but only in spoken language, i can of course read and write self taught, but that's probably not enough to make uni easy sailing. It's sad that Europe has to splinter like this though, and i think thats the real sad part. The UK is seperated by just a tiny channel... No point in going off on a defensive, solo mission. That isn't bringing positives for anyone.
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