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quasa
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#41
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#41
(Original post by TheUKAmerican)
There’s a lot to unpack here. I’m going to preface this by assuming you don’t play competitively, as if you did you wouldn’t be making that statement.

Firstly, power creep. If I took a perfect circle deck from 2007 and tried to use it 2019, I would be trounced. This does not mean that competitive Yugioh circa 2007 had no strategy. It simply means the game has sped up since then. The amount of strategy in the game is not inversely proportional to the speed of the game. Some formats are quite skill based and quite fast (Nekroz format comes to mind, as well as Zoo mirrors.) Some formats are very slow and skill based. (Goat Control). Others are very fast with little skill involved (dice roll formats like most of 2018 or spyral format), whilst others are very slow with little skill involved (the 2006 1 for 1 chaos formats were quite simplistic and unskilled, notoriously)

A slower game does not have less strategy, it just has a different dynamic. Goat control for instance, due to how slow it was encouraged skilful use of key 1 or 2 card combinations and careful use of 1 of key power cards such as BLS and Mirror Force.

Faster paced mirrors between modern combo decks emphasise a different facet of the game, namely the fact that you have access to basically your entire deck from turn 1 means you have a lot more instantaneous variables to consider, but since decks have stronger recovery plays the value of a single card in modern formats is lessened, this changes the dynamic of skilled play, but that’s all it is, a dynamic.

Modern yugioh takes more knowledge of steps to combos, but this results arguably in less skilled play in one sense because if you have a good mechanical memory you can get fairly far at locals assuming you win dice rolls.

That’s a straw man however and moder yugioh at the highest levels of play can be really really intricate in terms of the considerations. Both players being able to play what they want immediately requires you to have to laterally engage with many different facets of the game and have an awareness of resources, this immediacy is strategy.

Conversely, goat format values individual cards much more and so the emphasis is on long term planning and card advantage, the exponential effects of plays you make on turn 1 and what they might due in turn 20 must be considered.

Both take considerable amounts of skill at the top level.

The « historical decks » you’re referring to online are probably just 40badcards.dek being played by the No Xyz/No Pend/No Sync crowd, so you have a warped view of what older decks even looked like. The fact you bring up « banned cards till exodia » shows you really don’t have a grasp of what the competitive scene looked like pre The Duelist Genesis.

It’a extremely ignorant to equate older decks being unable to meet modern ones which have been aided by 20 years of power creep with the statement that all of competitive yugioh had no or very little strategy between the release of the Legend of Blue Eyes through Glad Beast format.

You’re flat out wrong here.
Agreed about powercreep but Im not a fan of the old style of play. Saying that, I do like having multiple plans and a balance of offence and defence.

I cant be asked purchasing cards irl but the decks I use online place emphasis on long term strategy vs short term (which is why my pendulum synchro deck trounces cyber dragons, skystriker and thunderdragon decks online...only to lose against guardragons and true king/dracos). My favourite deck isnt one of these cookie cutter strategy decks and is quite amusing to see people try and figure out what I am doing.

I lost interest around the time GX came out (got briefly interested in the game around the end of the original run of 5 ds but lost interest again till 2017). So no, I have no idea about old competitve scene. Older decks were good back in the day(1st ever deck was an oldschool kaiba starter and have played yugi evo starter + e hero decks before - heck i have 2 envoys of the beginning) but I honestly am not a fan of the old style.
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quasa
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#42
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#42
(Original post by Dextro845)
Arc v was one of my favs to see loved the story not digging vrains atm though
truth be told, I felt they ruined Arc-V (so much unfulfilled potential). Vrains has good ideas but has a rubbish execution. The "original" series to me hasnt aged well (I guess if your a kid / nostalgic then fiar enough you like it. personally it is lame). GX i liked when I was in year 10 as it had more humour than the original (who doesnt like the ojamas :lol: but the japanese dub of 5D's remains the benchmark series for me - english dub is rubbish due to heavy edits). Fun fact, the same team behind Arc-v are the same team behind 5D's, so its worth checking out if you havent. Zexal is a bit of a perculiar one as the 1st 1/2 - 2/3s are lame but the final third has a really intruiging plot.
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TheUKAmerican
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#43
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#43
(Original post by quasa)
Agreed about powercreep but Im not a fan of the old style of play. Saying that, I do like having multiple plans and a balance of offence and defence.

I cant be asked purchasing cards irl but the decks I use online place emphasis on long term strategy vs short term (which is why my pendulum synchro deck trounces cyber dragons, skystriker and thunderdragon decks online...only to lose against guardragons and true king/dracos). My favourite deck isnt one of these cookie cutter strategy decks and is quite amusing to see people try and figure out what I am doing.

I lost interest around the time GX came out (got briefly interested in the game around the end of the original run of 5 ds but lost interest again till 2017). So no, I have no idea about old competitve scene. Older decks were good back in the day(1st ever deck was an oldschool kaiba starter and have played yugi evo starter + e hero decks before - heck i have 2 envoys of the beginning) but I honestly am not a fan of the old style.
Modern Yugioh definitions of late game and grind decks are vastly different to Goat Format definitions of such.

If you think beating randys in online play with a suboptimal build of pendulums is indicative of competitive play, and that starter decks and e hero decks are an accurate representation of Yugioh pre September 2008...

We have two entirely different frames of reference regarding the game and will continue to talk past each other.

I will say this though, your preference for one doesn’t mean the other lacks strategy.
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Prussianxo
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#44
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#44
Oof Yugioh. The memories
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Vikingninja
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#45
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#45
(Original post by quasa)
niburu seems interesting if you can summon using your opponents monsters. the spell and trap are ok but wouldnt add them on any on my online decks tbh.

the exodia deck on the otherhand looks like otk material, particularly with my cyberse decks
These cards are hated by everyone I've seen talking about them so far, incredibly unfun.
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quasa
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#46
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#46
(Original post by Vikingninja)
These cards are hated by everyone I've seen talking about them so far, incredibly unfun.
yh, they seem almost as maligned as guardragons :lol:

In terms of new deck builds online, ive finally created a guardragon deck and...its not as balanced as my pendulum synchro deck (always room for improvement and in fairness, i did pull a nice screw you an a true draco sky striker tagteam by nuking their spells and traps).

I also made a salamangreat deck based on the world champion's deck, but modified it to be better (so added some link 4 monsters to add depth to it). 1 thing I found interesting about that deck is the use of bagooshka, which has actually been a great benefit to my pendulum decks as most of my pendulums are level 4.
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quasa
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#47
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#47
(Original post by Kallisto)
Would like to post this soundtrack here for a while



A proper OST for the final battle: it is thrilling, as if always matters and depends in one duel between good and bad. Nice! :yes:
Raise your final battle soundtrack with this final battle soundtrack
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Vikingninja
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#48
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#48
What decks do others here play. Only do online myself but currently trying rock burning abyss. Love how burning abyss won't die at all.
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Mark-987
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#49
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#49
OMG I love this! Just joined and found this chat. Thanks 🙏
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quasa
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#50
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#50
(Original post by Vikingninja)
What decks do others here play. Only do online myself but currently trying rock burning abyss. Love how burning abyss won't die at all.
built quite a few online and experimented with them:
pendulum magician synchro
pendulum magician guardragon
timetrick (timelord trickstar deck)
salad (salamangreat)
processlayer / cyberse hybrid
codetalker-oriented cyberse
skystrikers (which are lame btw - you play an mr3 duel and these cards are rubbish - mr4 tends to be better but essentially struggles against a few of the above decks)
dark magician / pendulum magician hybrid deck
quantal (i can never get this to work)
crystron - very intruiging but have n idea how to build this properly
majespecter
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Vikingninja
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#51
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#51
(Original post by quasa)
built quite a few online and experimented with them:
pendulum magician synchro
pendulum magician guardragon
timetrick (timelord trickstar deck)
salad (salamangreat)
processlayer / cyberse hybrid
codetalker-oriented cyberse
skystrikers (which are lame btw - you play an mr3 duel and these cards are rubbish - mr4 tends to be better but essentially struggles against a few of the above decks)
dark magician / pendulum magician hybrid deck
quantal (i can never get this to work)
crystron - very intruiging but have n idea how to build this properly
majespecter
I mean skystrikers are unplayable MR3 because links aren't allowed. The deck is still very strong current format. I tried pendulum during azzathot format with RUM to make kali yuga which is a stronger azzathot. I once made *snnnffff* dark warrior orcust chaos danger thunder dragons. The most trif deck I could think of.
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quasa
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#52
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#52
(Original post by Vikingninja)
I mean skystrikers are unplayable MR3 because links aren't allowed. The deck is still very strong current format. I tried pendulum during azzathot format with RUM to make kali yuga which is a stronger azzathot. I once made *snnnffff* dark warrior orcust chaos danger thunder dragons. The most trif deck I could think of.
iv been wondering how to make a good orcustrated deck tbh. thunderdragons im not making as of yet but they do seem like they would go well with guardragons
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Vikingninja
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#53
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#53
(Original post by quasa)
iv been wondering how to make a good orcustrated deck tbh. thunderdragons im not making as of yet but they do seem like they would go well with guardragons
The best variant of thunder dragon is a complete mess of a deck including dangers, chaos dragons and guardragons. It's one of the most degenerate meta decks currently.
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quasa
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#54
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#54
Vrains is officially over in Japan.by the looks of it, the next series might be a continuation of VRAINs or it could be something else.

In a nutshell re: the finale

Spoiler:
Show
essentially a mirror of yusei vs Jack's final duel with elements of Yusei vs Antimony in the japanese dub of 5ds. Both Ai and Yusaku summoned their strongest monsters (The [email protected] and Accesscode Talker respective), only to have both destroy each other and both characters summoning their original ace monsters (Dark [email protected] and Decode Talker respectively). Whilst Ai uses a combo of Templar's ability and Ai Strike to finish off playmaker, playmaker turns the table by negating TAi Strike and increases decode's attack, thus destroying templar and wiping out Ai's remaining lifepoints).
In what was somewhat of a sad ending, Ai it seems gets permadeath'd and Playmaker goes missing after seeing his closest friend die (because of him). It is also revealed (in somewhat of a nod to code geass - Ai's Seiyu is Suzaku's Voice Actor in the japanese dub) that he deliberately became a bad guy because in all the simulations he ran, Yusaku (and others) would always die because they were his friends, so he decided to turn on them to spare them of that fate. Also in somewhat of a meta moment, Ai is indeed confirmed to mean love (as in the love between people).

Afterwards, there is a 3 month flash forward:
Jun and Kurosagi are both running the hotdog stand, Aoi comes to visit
Akira has relaunched VRAINS and it seems to be a massive multidomain multiplayer environment
Hanoi have become ethical hackers who decide to protect the new vrains
Soulburner finally gets together with Kiku; Brave Max gets jelous and runs away crying
Spectre and Revolver are overlooking Vrains, with Revolver commenting that he is waiting for Playmaker to return
You see Playmaker surfing the Data storm
A new Ignis gets born (likely Ai in some deadweb, Ai's reincarnation or possibly the birth of a new ignis race).


Overall, I felt the series had a lot of potential but ultimately didnt deliver. The 1st season was a trainwreck (mainly due to production issues stemming from a lack of funding); most of the supporting characters werent developed well and had an annoying habit of losing despite having great decks (especially the female characters); Season 2 had a great plot but the final boss felt bland (penultimate was far more interesting); season 3 had great visuals but felt extremely rushed. Saying that however, the final bad guy was probably my fav. character in VRAINS as he is essentially a tragic hero + the series saved its best 2 duels for the last 2 duels.

Overall, I would rate it higher than ARC-v, GX, Zexal and maybe duel monsters but it is still behind the japanese dub of 5ds (although it has the best
animation out of the lot of them :lol: )
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quasa
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#55
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#55
Next 2 packs getting released in the OCG / TCG are ignition assault and eternity code. the former is introducing a few new archetypes, most notable of which is expected to be @Ignister, which can be described as a non-pendulum, cyberse version of D/D/D. Sadly, the true boss monster of this archetype, along with a rather interesting link 4 cyberse monster, will not be released till eternity code, along with a supposedly powerful new archetype.

Chances are, there will be a lot of @ignister builds once it comes out and dont be surprised to see Firewall Darkfluid get more play.

Regarding the true boss @ignister and link 4 cyberse, here are the anime details (which based on recent OCG releases might not change much):


Spoiler:
Show
The Arrival Cyberse @Ignister
???? Attack
Link 6
2+monsters with 1500 or more attack and different attributes
The original attack of this monster is 1000 x the number of link materials used to link summon this monster. This card gaiins 1000 Attack for each card you control. Once per turn, place a counter on this card. Whilst this card has a counter, it is unnafected by card effects. During either player's turn, remove 1 counter, and if you do, it is unaffected by your opponent's card effects. Once per turn, You can target 1 monster on the field, destroy it and special summon an @ignister token (level 1 dark attribute 0 atk and def) in a zone this card points to

Accesscode Talker
2300 Attack
Link 4
2+ Effect Monsters
This monster gains 1000 ATK X the link rating of 1 of the cards used to Link summon this monster. You can banish 1 Link Monster from your GY, then target 1 card your opponent controls; destroy it. You cannot banish other monsters with the same Attribute to activate this effect of "Accesscode Talker" in the same turn.

In addition to @Ignister benefitting from these 2 monsters, I can also see code talker / knightmare / playmaker style decks benefitting massively from these 2 cards, with the top monster being great all around and the latter being used well in endgame scenarios, particularly if paired with crusadia avramax or co-linked with excode talker and honeybot. Also the latter's effect isnt once per turn which means in theory, you could destroy up to 14 of your opponents cards in the space of 3 turns
Last edited by quasa; 1 year ago
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Vikingninja
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#56
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#56
(Original post by quasa)
Next 2 packs getting released in the OCG / TCG are ignition assault and eternity code. the former is introducing a few new archetypes, most notable of which is expected to be @Ignister, which can be described as a non-pendulum, cyberse version of D/D/D. Sadly, the true boss monster of this archetype, along with a rather interesting link 4 cyberse monster, will not be released till eternity code, along with a supposedly powerful new archetype.

Chances are, there will be a lot of @ignister builds once it comes out and dont be surprised to see Firewall Darkfluid get more play.

Regarding the true boss @ignister and link 4 cyberse, here are the anime details (which based on recent OCG releases might not change much):


Spoiler:
Show
The Arrival Cyberse @Ignister
???? Attack
Link 6
2+monsters with 1500 or more attack and different attributes
The original attack of this monster is 1000 x the number of link materials used to link summon this monster. This card gaiins 1000 Attack for each card you control. Once per turn, place a counter on this card. Whilst this card has a counter, it is unnafected by card effects. During either player's turn, remove 1 counter, and if you do, it is unaffected by your opponent's card effects. Once per turn, You can target 1 monster on the field, destroy it and special summon an @ignister token (level 1 dark attribute 0 atk and def) in a zone this card points to

Accesscode Talker
2300 Attack
Link 4
2+ Effect Monsters
This monster gains 1000 ATK X the link rating of 1 of the cards used to Link summon this monster. You can banish 1 Link Monster from your GY, then target 1 card your opponent controls; destroy it. You cannot banish other monsters with the same Attribute to activate this effect of "Accesscode Talker" in the same turn.

In addition to @Ignister benefitting from these 2 monsters, I can also see code talker / knightmare / playmaker style decks benefitting massively from these 2 cards, with the top monster being great all around and the latter being used well in endgame scenarios, particularly if paired with crusadia avramax or co-linked with excode talker and honeybot. Also the latter's effect isnt once per turn which means in theory, you could destroy up to 14 of your opponents cards in the space of 3 turns
Sadly ignister falls on its face like DDD but not because a broken deck came out soon after. The deck has very little in regards to going first options and is pretty much combo blind 2nd. IGAS will be more for buffing time thief which I'm a big annoyed they improved it with another infernity barrier. I'm hoping for eternity to deliver because recent and upcoming sets have not delivered well on decent archetypes minus improving support for others.

Also wouldn't compare ignister to DDD. DDD is an incredibly hard combo deck whereas ignister does a lot of activate ailand again several times.
Last edited by Vikingninja; 1 year ago
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Yukikobestgirl
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#57
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#57
Oh damn I didn't know this thread existed.

I'm considering what deck I play at my locals worlds qualifiers qualifier thing lmao
I'm building pends atm but might finish building the salad deck I never really built or build striker now the deck's within my price range.

Really depends on the next banlist cause it's in January
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TheUKAmerican
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#58
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#58
(Original post by Yukikobestgirl)
Oh damn I didn't know this thread existed.

I'm considering what deck I play at my locals worlds qualifiers qualifier thing lmao
I'm building pends atm but might finish building the salad deck I never really built or build striker now the deck's within my price range.

Really depends on the next banlist cause it's in January
Pendulums are too fragile imo.
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Yukikobestgirl
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#59
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#59
(Original post by TheUKAmerican)
Pendulums are too fragile imo.
idk I enjoy the playstyle (and the power to just say no to plays)
and I've seen some really good decklists top and it's affordable.
if striker doesn't get hit I'll probably build that instead though or maybe build salad
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quasa
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#60
Report 10 months ago
#60
(Original post by Vikingninja)
Sadly ignister falls on its face like DDD but not because a broken deck came out soon after. The deck has very little in regards to going first options and is pretty much combo blind 2nd. IGAS will be more for buffing time thief which I'm a big annoyed they improved it with another infernity barrier. I'm hoping for eternity to deliver because recent and upcoming sets have not delivered well on decent archetypes minus improving support for others.

Also wouldn't compare ignister to DDD. DDD is an incredibly hard combo deck whereas ignister does a lot of activate ailand again several times.
been toying with @ignisters and so far it seems to be great for single player duels (going 2nd is better but eternity code should have more support) and I would say so far it plays better than salads (although I have a feeling aidle reborn and tai strike will be hit with bans / limits, as well as potentially pikari and doyon).
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