What is to stop a far right nazi like party gaining power in the UK? Watch

999tigger
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#61
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#61
(Original post by maachu_pichuu)
No "we" mate, just you.
You have been unable to show any understanding of History.
No understanding of the UK.
Made claims about the far right, which are fantasy.

I hope this was the level of your gcse.
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maachu_pichuu
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#62
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#62
(Original post by 999tigger)
You have been unable to show any understanding of History.
No understanding of the UK.
Made claims about the far right, which are fantasy.

I hope this was the level of your gcse.
And you don't know the difference between democracy and liberty. Which is far more dangerous, if you ever got into any position of power in this lifetime.
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999tigger
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#63
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#63
(Original post by maachu_pichuu)
And you don't know the difference between democracy and liberty. Which is far more dangerous, if you ever got into any position of power in this lifetime.
So how do you feel you are oppressed? Because you cant carry a concealed weapon?
Where are these Nazis you are talking about?
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maachu_pichuu
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#64
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#64
(Original post by 999tigger)
So how do you feel you are oppressed? Because you cant carry a concealed weapon?
Where are these Nazis you are talking about?
I'm just saying, at some point in the future, we may have a government that truly wants to hurt us. Not now, not next year, but maybe sometime in the next 100 years. A bit like how Idi Amin in the 1970s kicked out all the asians and took everything they left behind.
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999tigger
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#65
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#65
(Original post by maachu_pichuu)
I'm just saying, at some point in the future, we may have a government that truly wants to hurt us. Not now, not next year, but maybe sometime in the next 100 years. A bit like how Idi Amin in the 1970s kicked out all the asians and took everything they left behind.
How are you being oppressed?
So your idea is give everyone guns so we can have more murders and armed gangs.

We arent Uganda.
We arent Weimar Germany.
You are ignorant as you dont understand the checks and balances plus general will of the people to avoid extremism.
You dont understand how democracy works, nor the history of this country.
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Assembly
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#66
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#66
(Original post by maachu_pichuu)
What is to stop a far right nazi like party gaining power in the UK? If they decided to gas a minority of people, who would stop them? Why does the UK promote democracy, but not care about liberty?

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what they are going to
have for lunch.Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote".

Benjamin Franklin

Why doesn't the UK give handguns to its citizens so they have absolute liberty from a tyrannical government and criminals?
So many loaded questions in short succession, what makes this even worse is how vague you are; what is 'Nazi like'? Do you mean a similar ideology to the Nazis, similar policies to the Nazis, a similar governmental structure to the Nazis? If a party had a similar ideology to the NSDAP, they wouldn't make it far; the Nazis had a very specific ideology predicated on social Darwinism, this may have been convincing in the early 1930s after the Wall Street Crash where people were more susceptible to extremist ideas and racism was still prevalent - but not in the diverse climate of today. The Nazis also operated on the Fuhrer principle, this isn't possible in any UK democracy with all of the checks and balances on UK governments - never-mind the fact that we don't have an Article 48 of sorts. As an above poster has said, the Nazis came to power in a very specific set of circumstances, the questions you describe just throw the term 'Nazi' around like it's a realistic possibility there will be a Nazi-inspired government in the UK.

'If they decided to gas a minority of people, who would stop them?' This question is grounded on a whole heap of unrealistic assumptions. It assumes such a government is in charge, it assumes the civil service & army would be morally complicit in the act, it assumes chemical engineering firms would be willing to supply the government with such gas (as I.G Farben supplied the Nazis with Zyklon B gas), it assumes there is no coalition and that this party somehow got a majority, it's just ridiculous.

This post appears to be propositions disguised as questions, if you believe such a scenario is realistic OP - then at least stop hiding behind question marks and let your arguments stand for what they are. This is clear in your question 'why does the UK promote democracy, (2) but not care about liberty' where you smuggle in clause (2) as if we're going to accept that as true to answer your 'question'.
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AngryRedhead
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#67
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#67
We have guns in the uk....
(Original post by maachu_pichuu)
Yes but isn't this how hitler got into power. I just feel people should have guns to defend themselves from a government who wants to hurt its own people.
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paul514
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#68
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#68
(Original post by maachu_pichuu)
What is to stop a far right nazi like party gaining power in the UK? If they decided to gas a minority of people, who would stop them? Why does the UK promote democracy, but not care about liberty?

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what they are going to
have for lunch.Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote".

Benjamin Franklin

Why doesn't the UK give handguns to its citizens so they have absolute liberty from a tyrannical government and criminals?
Addressing voters actual views rather than ignoring them so they don’t get to the point of voting people like that in?
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fallen_acorns
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#69
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#69
ignoring the nazi/far-right stuff, because a lot of other posters have already covered that...

The point about liberty/freedom vs democracy is an interesting one.

I would say that as a nation we have passed our peak in terms of liberty, which for me would be somewhere towards the start-mid 20th century.

If you view it like this, it makes a lot of sense to me:

We saw a huge transition in power within our society in the late 1800s and early 1900s from the monarch and aristocracy, to the government. Before this transition, the government has very very little impact on the daily lives of British people, and mainly dealt with external and large national affairs. The daily lives of people were controlled by the wealth-owners who owned the land, factories, and resources that the people in their area depended on. These were usually members of the aristocracy, or quickly became members. The person who owned the land your farm/shop was on, or own the factor you worked in, had far far more to say about the way you lived your life, and your own personal freedoms then the goverment.

But this began to transition, and really shifted at the start of the 1900s with the two world wars. Power was slowly removed from the hands of the aristocracy and land-owners, to parliament and the government. the reforms to local goverment in the 1800s were compounded and built upon to make local goverments far more powerful during the early 20th century, and the national goverment, especially during times of war, took far more control over policing and regulating the daily lives of citizens. At the same time, the aristocracy weaked significantly, due to the loss of the empire, a few generations of men dying in the wars, our collapsed economy, and the fact that they didn't strongly uppose parliment taking control because back then, it was them in parliment..

A general rule of governing is that its very easy to give power to your government, but its very very hard to make the government give it back again.

So the peak of British liberty was reached when the aristocratic leadership was weakening.. and the governmental leadership hadn't reached its full scale.. and you get a period where things seem much more liberated, free and open then they are now. Since then, the aristocratic leadership has kept dwindling and dwindling but the government has taken more and more control, and grown bigger and bigger.

If you see historians compare pre-WW2 british goverment to todays british goverment, they are entirely different beasts, and it looks like a mamoth compared to a mouse.

----


Now the interesting thing is questioning if this is a good thing or a bad thing. And which trades in liberty are we willing to accept.

For example:
if you are a man you have less liberty now then in 1920.
but if you are a gay man, or a woman? You have far more liberty now then you had in 1920.

You have significantly less liberty to defend yourself and your family/property then in 1920.
But you have significantly less threats to defend it from, because crime has gone down significantly since then.

You have much less liberty to do what you want with land that you own, then in 1920.
But you have a much higher ability to actually be able to own land in the first place, then in 1920.
etc.

There are lots of interesting sociological debates to be had. especially now as we talk about liberty in reference to the digital age.

---

Overall, I do wish the government would give a bit more freedom and trust back to the people, and I do think in some cases we can do this, without sacrificing other areas of progress.
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Burton Bridge
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#70
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#70
(Original post by maachu_pichuu)
What is to stop a far right nazi like party gaining power in the UK? If they decided to gas a minority of people, who would stop them? Why does the UK promote democracy, but not care about liberty?

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what they are going to
have for lunch.Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote".

Benjamin Franklin

Why doesn't the UK give handguns to its citizens so they have absolute liberty from a tyrannical government and criminals?
Nothing and the continued betrayal of Brexit unfortunately makes this more likely to happen!

As for guns they should play no part in any decent society, apart from in limited highly trained security forces.
Last edited by Burton Bridge; 1 week ago
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Mossbourne
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#71
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#71
(Original post by maachu_pichuu)
Thick enough to vote for brexit though.
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(Original post by Assembly)
So many loaded questions in short succession, what makes this even worse is how vague you are; what is 'Nazi like'? Do you mean a similar ideology to the Nazis, similar policies to the Nazis, a similar governmental structure to the Nazis? If a party had a similar ideology to the NSDAP, they wouldn't make it far; the Nazis had a very specific ideology predicated on social Darwinism, this may have been convincing in the early 1930s after the Wall Street Crash where people were more susceptible to extremist ideas and racism was still prevalent - but not in the diverse climate of today. The Nazis also operated on the Fuhrer principle, this isn't possible in any UK democracy with all of the checks and balances on UK governments - never-mind the fact that we don't have an Article 48 of sorts. As an above poster has said, the Nazis came to power in a very specific set of circumstances, the questions you describe just throw the term 'Nazi' around like it's a realistic possibility there will be a Nazi-inspired government in the UK.

'If they decided to gas a minority of people, who would stop them?' This question is grounded on a whole heap of unrealistic assumptions. It assumes such a government is in charge, it assumes the civil service & army would be morally complicit in the act, it assumes chemical engineering firms would be willing to supply the government with such gas (as I.G Farben supplied the Nazis with Zyklon B gas), it assumes there is no coalition and that this party somehow got a majority, it's just ridiculous.

This post appears to be propositions disguised as questions, if you believe such a scenario is realistic OP - then at least stop hiding behind question marks and let your arguments stand for what they are. This is clear in your question 'why does the UK promote democracy, (2) but not care about liberty' where you smuggle in clause (2) as if we're going to accept that as true to answer your 'question'.
He's trying to compare Farage, ARM, Widdecombe to Nazis via dog whistles - I'd not expect much rationality here.
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nulli tertius
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#72
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#72
(Original post by maachu_pichuu)
Only since the 1940s has the UK made it against the law to have a gun for self defence. The UK was well armed before the 1940s, I can assure you.
Rubbish

Pistols were licensed from 1903; long barelled weapons from 1920.

Self-defence as a valid reason for having weapons was withdrawn in 1937.
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