Police officer faces sack after ramming moped thief Watch

username4454836
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#21
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#21
(Original post by jameswhughes)
A one off when someone was running around with an improvised suicide vest, they did the right thing given the circumstances.
Do you remember that Brazilian plumber on the tube? They painted the walls with him.
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SHallowvale
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#22
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"'Using a police car to stop other vehicles on highways is a high risk activity and officers are only authorised to carry out the manoeuvre when they are given direction. The officer is to identify with the control room what steps need to be taken and obtain authorisation for the tactic to stop a moped and none of that was done." - Charles Apthrop, representing the Met Police in this case.

So basically the police officer didn't follow protocol and ended up severely injuring someone. Say what you will about moped thiefs, the police must (and should) use reasonable force if they have to engage in physical contact (either through their own body, a tool or a vehicle) with another person.
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Fullofsurprises
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#23
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(Original post by artful_lounger)
This was always the inevitable outcome of this new tactic by the Met, and they should've had enough sense to realise without first obtaining the necessary legal protections for using such a tactic, it would be a bad idea to do so.

In any case, it's use is inevitably a drastic escalation of any incident and excessive force in at least a non legal sense, given the crime it's purportedly stopping. Putting property over the value of lives and livelihoods is a slippery slope, especially since there is limited opportunity to actually confirm the person being rammed did indeed commit the crime. At the end of the day, it's just material possessions; it's not worth risking killing or maiming someone over, even if they did commit a crime. The UK stopped executing criminals for a reason.

Hopefully this will highlight these and other issues with it and the Met will stop trying to aspire to the oppressive police state levels of US policing, at least as far as this tactic is concerned.
It isn't just some abstract property crime - they have been brutally harming and intimidating people in the streets to steal bags, phones, etc. The level of violence has bordered on psychopathic at times.
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TheRealSquiddy
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#24
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#24
(Original post by Decahedron)
Do you remember that Brazilian plumber on the tube? They painted the walls with him.
If I remember correctly that was a case of mistaken identity was it not? Mistakes happen with any police force and a snap choice was made. In a high pressure situation these things happen.
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Last edited by TheRealSquiddy; 2 weeks ago
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Fullofsurprises
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#25
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(Original post by SHallowvale)
"'Using a police car to stop other vehicles on highways is a high risk activity and officers are only authorised to carry out the manoeuvre when they are given direction. The officer is to identify with the control room what steps need to be taken and obtain authorisation for the tactic to stop a moped and none of that was done." - Charles Apthrop, representing the Met Police in this case.

So basically the police officer didn't follow protocol and ended up severely injuring someone. Say what you will about moped thiefs, the police must (and should) use reasonable force if they have to engage in physical contact (either through their own body, a tool or a vehicle) with another person.
I wonder if every police officer engaged in a frantic chase has time to go through all the protocols, or do they sometimes not have time in what amounts to a war in the streets against very dangerous people?
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SHallowvale
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#26
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#26
(Original post by artful_lounger)
This was always the inevitable outcome of this new tactic by the Met, and they should've had enough sense to realise without first obtaining the necessary legal protections for using such a tactic, it would be a bad idea to do so.

In any case, it's use is inevitably a drastic escalation of any incident and excessive force in at least a non legal sense, given the crime it's purportedly stopping. Putting property over the value of lives and livelihoods is a slippery slope, especially since there is limited opportunity to actually confirm the person being rammed did indeed commit the crime. At the end of the day, it's just material possessions; it's not worth risking killing or maiming someone over, even if they did commit a crime. The UK stopped executing criminals for a reason.

Hopefully this will highlight these and other issues with it and the Met will stop trying to aspire to the oppressive police state levels of US policing, at least as far as this tactic is concerned.
Very nicely argued point, thanks for writing!
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username4454836
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#27
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(Original post by TheRealSquiddy)
If I remember correctly that was a case of mistaken identity was it not? Mistakes happen with any police force and a snap choice was made. In a high pressure situation these things happen.
Do you remember the cover up that followed and the lies the police told?
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jameswhughes
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#28
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#28
(Original post by artful_lounger)
This was always the inevitable outcome of this new tactic by the Met, and they should've had enough sense to realise without first obtaining the necessary legal protections for using such a tactic, it would be a bad idea to do so.

In any case, it's use is inevitably a drastic escalation of any incident and excessive force in at least a non legal sense, given the crime it's purportedly stopping. Putting property over the value of lives and livelihoods is a slippery slope, especially since there is limited opportunity to actually confirm the person being rammed did indeed commit the crime. At the end of the day, it's just material possessions; it's not worth risking killing or maiming someone over, even if they did commit a crime. The UK stopped executing criminals for a reason.

Hopefully this will highlight these and other issues with it and the Met will stop trying to aspire to the oppressive police state levels of US policing, at least as far as this tactic is concerned.
It's not just property, if it was pickpockets that would be different.

These are violent gangs, they'll get out their knives/hammers/baseball bats and have no hesitation killing someone.
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jameswhughes
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#29
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#29
(Original post by Decahedron)
Do you remember that Brazilian plumber on the tube? They painted the walls with him.
As unfortunate as that was with getting the wrong person, they didn't miss their target.
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DSilva
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#30
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It's quite a good thing that unlike in other countries, we demand our police use only reasonable and proportionate force and don't go in all guns blazing.

Far better here than in America, for example.
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username4454836
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#31
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#31
(Original post by jameswhughes)
As unfortunate as that was with getting the wrong person, they didn't miss their target.
No they just tried to cover it up and lie at every opportunity.

You'll have to forgive but I have very little trust in the police and their ability.
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The RAR
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#32
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(Original post by SHallowvale)
"'Using a police car to stop other vehicles on highways is a high risk activity and officers are only authorised to carry out the manoeuvre when they are given direction. The officer is to identify with the control room what steps need to be taken and obtain authorisation for the tactic to stop a moped and none of that was done." - Charles Apthrop, representing the Met Police in this case.

So basically the police officer didn't follow protocol and ended up severely injuring someone. Say what you will about moped thiefs, the police must (and should) use reasonable force if they have to engage in physical contact (either through their own body, a tool or a vehicle) with another person.
If the mopeds have nothing to hide then why run away? They surely must have or were preparing to commit a crime, if they fail to stop when police chase them with blue lights I think ramming them over is justifiable. And the tactic has proved very successful, I am more concerned about the victims rather than the criminals because actions have consequences.
The case of Henry Hicks (His name I think) died whilst being chased by police, it's not always the police's fault if criminals get hurt, the police car did not make contact with Henry's moped.
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Andrew97
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#33
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#33
If you don’t want a face full of concrete, don’t run away from the police and don’t steal.
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TheRealSquiddy
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#34
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#34
(Original post by Decahedron)
No they just tried to cover it up and lie at every opportunity.

You'll have to forgive but I have very little trust in the police and their ability.
As a police officer it makes me a bit sad to hear this. Because I would hope people have a bit more faith in the police to look after them.

At the end of the day the way I see it, if you got stabbed or someone in your family got attacked, you would still come to us.
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username4454836
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#35
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(Original post by TheRealSquiddy)
As a police officer it makes me a bit sad to hear this. Because I would hope people have a bit more faith in the police to look after them.

At the end of the day the way I see it, if you got stabbed or someone in your family got attacked, you would still come to us.
Last time I called the police because someone attacked my security guards with a hammer they told me it wasn't a crime and they wouldn't be coming.

I would be far more likely to call someone that would actually do something.
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TheRealSquiddy
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#36
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#36
(Original post by Decahedron)
Last time I called the police because someone attacked my security guards with a hammer they told me it wasn't a crime and they wouldn't be coming.

I would be far more likely to call someone that would actually do something.
All I can say is I'm very sorry that happened.

I hope that in the future the police will do better by you.
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The RAR
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#37
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(Original post by Decahedron)
Last time I called the police because someone attacked my security guards with a hammer they told me it wasn't a crime and they wouldn't be coming.

I would be far more likely to call someone that would actually do something.
Security guards? Are you just making stuff up or what was the situation you got yourself into exactly? You seem to despise the police, if someone commits a burglary or just any crime against you who would you call other than the police? A private detective?
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SHallowvale
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#38
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(Original post by The RAR)
If the mopeds have nothing to hide then why run away? They surely must have or were preparing to commit a crime, if they fail to stop when police chase them with blue lights I think ramming them over is justifiable. And the tactic has proved very successful, I am more concerned about the victims rather than the criminals because actions have consequences.
The case of Henry Hicks (His name I think) died whilst being chased by police, it's not always the police's fault if criminals get hurt, the police car did not make contact with Henry's moped.
I'm aware that knocking down mopeds is a successful tactic but lines still need to be drawn and protocol still needs to be followed. It's there to prevent police from getting 'trigger happy', so to speak, and just hitting drivers however and whenever they feel like at whatever speed they, personally, think is acceptable.
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Fullofsurprises
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#39
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(Original post by Decahedron)
Last time I called the police because someone attacked my security guards with a hammer they told me it wasn't a crime and they wouldn't be coming.

I would be far more likely to call someone that would actually do something.
You have your own security guards? :lol:
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TheRealSquiddy
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#40
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#40
(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
You have your own security guards? :lol:
He's a rich man
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